New York ruckus brought to you courtesy of Teresa Heinz-Kerry

[caddis]

lol..sorry...not a journalist here..I'll have to be more aware of the terms I use when I sling my mud

[igofast]

Originally Posted by caddis

lol..sorry...not a journalist here..I'll have to be more aware of the terms I use when I sling my mud

Well there's a big difference in the two things you said. You asked if Mrs. Kerry gets a free pass to support a thuggish organization because of the small amount she donated. It's a bit of a trick question when you put it that way, because if they actually are thuggish, perhaps Mrs. Kerry should be critisized for the donation. But if it's just your opinion that it's a "****bag organization" then it's more than likely that the person you're asking doesn't share your opinion that it's a ****bag organization and doesn't find fault in Mrs. Kerry's donation.

So you see how one little word can make a big difference in exactly what you're asking?

[302Riz]

Originally Posted by igofast

If you ever have something you feel so strongly about you feel like you need to protest it, if you get in someone's way, remind them to punch you in the face.

Here is the thing, I respect other peoples space....I dont or wont intentionally get in someones way impeding them on their way to work, school or other just to make a scene. I am not denying their right to protest, I am against on how they are going about it.

Peoples commutes to work are bad enough as it is. It will be tougher with the Republican Convention (which I'm not all too happy about. I cant even ride to Penn Station during the convention.) and all these Rukus people getting in everyones way.

[igofast]

If protestors are given a place to protest, more often then not, they're happy to take it.

[302Riz]

Originally Posted by igofast

If protestors are given a place to protest, more often then not, they're happy to take it.

They want to protest in Central Park but Mayor Bloomberg denied them their right to protest because "they might damage the grass on the great lawn".


The same thing happend last March before the war in Iraq started... People decided to protest but their idea of protesting was laying down in the middle of the street in Times Square holding up traffic for miles.

[Corporate Avenger]

Originally Posted by caddis

lol..you are close CA..it's MY demonization of everybody from the extreme LEFT. They are all the same. And to participate in organized protests and actually train people on how to protest is proof to me of their radicalism.


if it makes you two happy, i'll change my terminology: "And H2...are you saying that she gets a feee pass for contributing to sh*tbag organizations because she didn't contribute a majority share? Is there a certain percent limit that must be attained before it qualifies as "supporting" such @ssholes?"

I guess thugs demands proof...@sshole is just my opinion

The problem is you believe anybody left of center is the "extreme left". By your responses it's clear you don't know anything about Ruckus or why and what they train people for.

It's also funny to hear you calling everybody thugs and *******s, you don't know any of these people, you don't know what they are about, and they are fighting to keep this nation from going to hell. You should be worried about the true thugs that occupy the White house, not some banner unfolding peace groups.

[Corporate Avenger]

Originally Posted by 302Riz

They want to protest in Central Park but Mayor Bloomberg denied them their right to protest because "they might damage the grass on the great lawn".


The same thing happend last March before the war in Iraq started... People decided to protest but their idea of protesting was laying down in the middle of the street in Times Square holding up traffic for miles.

So not being inconvenienced is more important than us losing our rights, and the country being drawn into endless war?

With the media being cahoots with the government the people have no place else to make their voices heard, and like you said Bloomberg is more worried about the grass in central park than he is peoples rights. Blame the corrupt elitists that have made things so bad that people are forced to go out and protest, for if our government wasn't a corrupt cesspool of scum, there wouldn't be a need to protest it. Once it's fixed there will be calm, until then people need to get off their butts and do something, otherwise it's goodbye freedoms and everything else we take for granted.

[JoeyNormal]

Riz - Where do you propose they protest?

Caddis - I now remember where I'd heard the term "Ruckus society" before. I'm not sure if this is the same group, and I'm too lazy to attempt to check, but back around '01-'02 I heard talk of an Anarchist by the name of Ruckus* who was imprisoned for partipating in a protest that lacked a permit, blah, blah. A number of LA (I think) anarcho kids saw this as unjust, and, voila, the Free Ruckus Society was formed. This, like I said, may not be the same group, but it seems plausible that after Ruckus was released - which I assume he has been - they dropped the "Free" bit, and kept the name and remained in existence with slightly broader goals than originally. If so, then their name has nothing to do with causing a ruckus whatsoever. If they took it meaning it that they aimed to cause a ruckus, they may well simply have meant it as in make a lot of noise etc. You can cause a ruckus without being a violent thug.

The fact that you assume that they are thugs and arseholes without ever speaking to them or even knowing their group's goals or methods gives away a lot about your prejudices.

* Punks/anarcho-scum/hardcore kids/whatever often have odd nicknames. People call me xJoeyNormalx, for Christ's sake. Nicknames aren't always accurate; he might well be a violent person who starts fights, or he might not.

[caddis]

Originally Posted by Corporate Avenger

The problem is you believe anybody left of center is the "extreme left".

You should be worried about the true thugs that occupy the White house, not some banner unfolding peace groups.

CA: You have proof of their "thuggishness?"

CA and Joey: I don't consider people who train for protests or those that attend their camps as mainstream "lefties" Or as CA would say..anyone just a little left of center. I consider professional protestors as Extremists.

Ruckus Society

An organization that sponsors skill-sharing and direct action training camps, which specializes in environmental activism and Guerrilla communicationlink to definition

This was from an anarchist website...so I guess you call it "pro-Ruckus":

Ruckus Society. The nonprofit is best known for training many of the demonstrators who shut down the WTO in 1999, and continues to coach people of conscience in nonviolent and often provocative direct action -- from blockading street intersections to ascending skyscrapers for politically-themed banner hangs.

“The first Ruckus camps were totally about skills,” says Callender, a former Greenpeace organizer. “They were very white, very hetero-normative -- basically crusty eco-activist hippies. It was a homogenous group, so everybody knew that everybody was working on the same issues.”

Ruckus was highly effective in its forest movement goals such as organizing tree sits and blockades to stop massive timber sales in the U.S. But, like Earth First! and Greenpeace, it was often criticized for its macho culture and lack of analysis of race, class and sexuality. There were objections, for instance, to men using their status as hot shot climbing trainers to get with younger female students at camp, older Earth First! guys getting drunk and making passes at younger women, or simply the politics of white men with dreads in drumming circles

I guess only the older members are sh*tbags? ( I should amend my previous statement a tad)
link

This guy seems to put into words what I feel about this group and all those "more then" left of center:

Founded in 1995, The Ruckus Society has been providing training programs for left-wing activists for several years, and now that we’re in a presidential election year they’re aiming their sights on the Republican primary convention in New York. This summer, the Ruckus Society will be running a weekend training camp for the purpose of training their fringe group minion in the disorganized art of protest. Welcome to Camp Run-Amok.

You’ll learn survival techniques: how to treat your eyes against pepper spray. You’ll acquire valuable skills: how to scale a building or how to resist rubber bullets. Participate in arts and crafts: create blockades and sit-ins, or throw a pie. Summer camp was never like this.

The left likes to romantically refer to their anti-authority demonstrations as “direct action,” which, admittedly, sounds a lot better than “riot.” While this may have adolescent appeal among fledgling revolutionary wannabes, it doesn’t play well in Middle America. Consequently, many activists have come to recognize the need to appeal to the political mainstream.

Consequently, the Ruckus Society has taken on the task of turning radical left wing political demonstrations and repackaging them into benign but wacky, media-friendly events. It’s a little like if Gallagher had his own political party.

But a disruptive freak show is still a disruptive freak show no matter how big the clown shoes are. Behind the big banners, the costumes, and giant puppet heads remain the same old messages of anti-Americanism, anti-capitalism and anti-just-about-anything embraced by ordinary Americans.

Go ahead and paint a happy face on the Earth Liberation Front. Knock yourself out. The FBI still knows that they’re domestic terrorist group. Go ahead and give members of the Communist Party USA a shave and a haircut. Maybe you can even teach them how to smile. Doesn’t matter. They’re still incoherent. And what’s with those bad sweaters that seem so popular among angry young anarchists? Talk about extreme makeover. Is national politics ready for “American Eye for the Radical Guy?”

Society Director Sellers gets it, but only to a point. He says, “Anarchism has gotten a really bad rap, like communism.” That’s true. All that theft, vandalism, and arson, can create such an unfortunate misperception. Sellers would have us believe that those malicious fringe groups we’ve seen in places like Seattle, Washington D.C, and elsewhere are merely poor misunderstood idealists suffering from a lack of positive media spin.

link

[302Riz]

There are plenty of parks where they can protest. They can protest around the WTC site. Anywhere else is just illogical.

Causing a scene, blocking sidewalks and streets isnt going to help change anyones minds. Pedestrians and commuters are just going to ignore the protestors.

[Powerboss]

Originally Posted by 302Riz

There are plenty of parks where they can protest. They can protest around the WTC site. Anywhere else is just illogical.

Causing a scene, blocking sidewalks and streets isnt going to help change anyones minds. Pedestrians and commuters are just going to ignore the protestors.

\



They believe they have a pass to disrupt whatever they feel like and commit any act of violence. They turn off more people than they attract, that is certain.

[h2g2Fan]

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=224

Debunked.

[h2g2Fan]

Both groups say the only money given directly to the Tides Foundation by the Heinz Endowments was $230,000 given between 1994 and 1998, all used to support a pollution-prevention initiative and other environmental projects in Western Pennsylvania.

Heinz Endowments

- $1.6 million for "Sustainable Pittsburgh," which promotes such projects as "bike to work week."
- Just over $1 million for the "Chemical Strategies Partnership," which looks for ways to cut the use of chemicals in industry.
- $800,000 for the "Green Building Alliance ," which promotes buildings that use less energy.
- Nearly $1.4 million for the "Pennsylvania Energy Project," which spun off several renewable-energy projects before going out of business at the end of 2000.

[Powerboss]

Is http://www.factcheck.org/ a reliable source?

[h2g2Fan]

Yes. It's a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania.

Everything on their website is sourced.

It's non-partisan, you can check through the rest of the site if you want.

[h2g2Fan]

Or, this might help :]

[Powerboss]

Well, thats good news.

Perhaps you can let Michael Moore, Terry McCaulliffe, John Kerry, Corporate Avenger, Kanuckistang, and all the other Demcorats know about this "non-partisan" website.

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=222

Bush's "16 Words" on Iraq & Uranium: He May Have Been Wrong But He Wasn't Lying
Two intelligence invesigations show Bush had plenty of reason to believe what he said in his 2003 State of the Union Address.

July 26, 2004
Modified: July 28, 2004

The famous “16 words” in President Bush’s Jan. 28, 2003 State of the Union address turn out to have a basis in fact after all, according to two recently released investigations in the US and Britain.

Im glad we've straightened out that Mrs Kerry didn't directly give money recently to these organizations and also glad that Bush didn't lie.

Thanks H2G2.

[h2g2Fan]

You're welcome, it's a great site.

[Powerboss]

I've added it to my list and will, in the future, determine for myself whether its non partisan.

Either way, make sure you let Michael Moore, Terry McCaulliffe, John Kerry, Corporate Avenger, Kanuckistang, and all the other Demcorats know about this website.

[Corporate Avenger]

Originally Posted by Powerboss

I've added it to my list and will, in the future, determine for myself whether its non partisan.

Either way, make sure you let Michael Moore, Terry McCaulliffe, John Kerry, Corporate Avenger, Kanuckistang, and all the other Demcorats know about this website.

I'm NOT a Democrat, and Kanuckistang doesn't even live in this country..

You're full of hullabaloo...