Buddy Holly Family Not Happy With Dixie Chicks' Song

[jwreck]

A reference to Buddy Holly on an upcoming Dixie Chicks album isn't setting right with brothers of the 1950s music legend.

In "Lubbock or Leave It," Natalie Maines, a native of this West Texas city, sings: "I hear they hate me now/Just like they hated you./Maybe when I'm dead and gone/I'm gonna get a statue, too."

Holly, whose statue is in downtown Lubbock, was born here and died in a plane crash along with singers Ritchie Valens and J.P. "The Big Bopper" Richardson in Iowa in 1959.

Holly's older brother, Larry O. Holley, said he doesn't know of anyone in Lubbock who hated his sibling.

"Older people in town thought rock 'n' roll was for kids," Holley said. "But no one hated Buddy."

The song is on the fourth Dixie Chicks album, a May 23 national release titled "Taking the Long Way." The songwriting credit lists all three Chicks — Emily Robison, Martie Maguire and Maines — and Mike Campbell.

Another brother, Travis Holley, said his brother was proud of Lubbock.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,194092,00.html
wow, talk about arrogance. comparing herself to buddy holly? a little full of herself are we?

[Pappy&Me]

The Dixie Hicks would'nt make a pimple on Buddys butt !

They have no talent, looks or anything else going for them, except the fact they are females in a goddess age .

[Jay GW]

I live in Texas. It's full of ignorant, uneducated people. Lubbock is no different from the rest of the state.

Please remember, George W. Bush comes from Texas.

Then again, people in New York and Massachusetts voted for George W. Bush. So it makes you wonder.


-

[Truth Teller]

!. The DC's are as talented as Buddy.

2.Then Larry Holley [proper spelling of the family name] was lying when he told Holly biogropher Ellis Amburn that Buddy liked everybody but not everybody in West Texas liked him.

That some people in the area ddin't like Buddy for hanging out with Blacks and Latinois and some musicans in West Texas didn't like Buddy because he was the first in the area to make it.

Because of that Larry said that Buddy [who was weak due to various childhood illnesses] had a bodyguard of sorts,a friend of his who wore a black leather jacket and always carried a chain and he took care of anybody who tried to attack Buddy.

Larry also said that if there were an all-star tribute concert to Buddy in Lubbock people from all over the world would come to it ,but not many in Lubbock would.

That doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement from Lubbock to me.

I've been a huge Buddy Holly fan nearly all my life ,I know his whole history [including the fact that his family wasn't happy with him moving to New York City,not to mention Greenwich Village the most liberal part of NYC,or about his marrying a woman who was older than him,Latino and Catholic]so I can safely say that The Dixe Chicks' song is closer to the truth than Larry's denial.

The fact is Buddy was more learned and sophisiticated than his family were or than they wanted him to be [something I can realte to in my personal familial situation]and that always came across in his music.

Was Larry lying to Ellis Amburn or to this reporter?

All the real evidence tells me that The Dixie Chicks song is indeed correct.

[Truth Teller]

Originally Posted by Jay GW

Then again, people in New York and Massachusetts voted for George W. Bush.



-

Not many.

[jwreck]

you would really give the dixie chicks the same status as buddy holly? you really have smoked too much pot in your days...

[GanjaFreebird]

I'm sorry but as much as I like DC and their opinions on Bush...they aren't even good enough to be mentioned in the same sentence with Buddy Holly.

While I never ranked Holly on the level of my favorite Rock and Roll pioneers (he wasn't as great as Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, Fats Domino, Elvis Presley, Bo Diddley, B.B. King, Gene Vincent or even Eddie Cochran), he was still one of the greatest and most influential artists in history.

His songs were a huge inspiration on music and especially The Beatles, while he was an excellent, if not innovative, guitarist at the time and unique stage presence and singing style that helped to define Rock music.

DC are GREAT considering most of today's music...they cannot hold a candle to Holly or most other great 1950's Rockers, sorry, just my observation as a music student and profesional musician.

[jwreck]

Originally Posted by GanjaFreebird

I'm sorry but as much as I like DC and their opinions on Bush...they aren't even good enough to be mentioned in the same sentence with Buddy Holly.

While I never ranked Holly on the level of my favorite Rock and Roll pioneers (he wasn't as great as Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, Fats Domino, Elvis Presley, Bo Diddley, B.B. King, Gene Vincent or even Eddie Cochran), he was still one of the greatest and most influential artists in history.

His songs were a huge inspiration on music and especially The Beatles, while he was an excellent, if not innovative, guitarist at the time and unique stage presence and singing style that helped to define Rock music.

[CowPunk]

According to Peggy Sue on her website (sorry, forgotten the URL), many people in Lubbock disliked Buddy even before he made it, although he was popular at their high school.

[Truth Teller]

Originally Posted by jwreck

you would really give the dixie chicks the same status as buddy holly?

I didn't quite do that.

Amongst present-day artists The Dixie Chicks [they took their name form the Little Feet song "Dixie Chicken" by the way]are amongst the very best [and most innovatvie] in any genere [they play their own instruments ,play them acoustically ,play them very well,have very good songwriting and are musically innovative ,look at their latest track with Robert Randpolph for only the most obvious example] and I think almost anyone with half a brain can see that's what I meant,now back to why Larry Holley is wrong.

you really have smoked too much pot in your days...

Maybe you didn't smoke enough.

Originally Posted by GanjaFreebird

I'm sorry but as much as I like DC and their opinions on Bush...they aren't even good enough to be mentioned in the same sentence with Buddy Holly.

See above.^


While I never ranked Holly on the level of my favorite Rock and Roll pioneers (he wasn't as great as Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, Fats Domino, Elvis Presley, Bo Diddley, B.B. King, Gene Vincent or even Eddie Cochran),
[/quote]

I strongly disagree with that,I'd rank only Ray Charles and maybe Chuck and/or Elvis above him.

he was still one of the greatest and most influential artists in history.

Indeed.

His songs were a huge inspiration on music and especially The Beatles,

Bob Dylan,The Rolling Stones and The Greateful Dead too.

Not to mention Los Lobos,Marty Stuart,James Taylor,The Everly Brothers,Peter And Gordon,Linda Ronsdat,The Band and oh yes,Waylon Jennings [who played bass in Buddy's band].

while he was an excellent, if not innovative, guitarist at the time and unique stage presence and singing style that helped to define Rock music.

No argument.

DC are GREAT considering most of today's music.

What other point of reference is there?

..they cannot hold a candle to Holly or most other great 1950's Rockers,

Well they do hold at least one candle.

sorry, just my observation as a music student and profesional musician.

And I know music students and professional musicians [especially several who are folk oriented ,which you are not] who disagree with you and their opinions are just as vailid as yours or anybody's else's.

[GanjaFreebird]

Amongst present-day artists The Dixie Chicks [they took their name form the Little Feet song "Dixie Chicken" by the way]are amongst the very best [and most innovatvie] in any genere [they play their own instruments ,play them acoustically ,play them very well,have very good songwriting and are musically innovative ,look at their latest track with Robert Randpolph for only the most obvious example] and I think almost anyone with half a brain can see that's what I meant,now back to why Larry Holley is wrong.

True, and yet I see no evidence that any of DC could sing, play or write anywhere as great as Holly. DIFFERENT LEVELS . And again, I like DC alot, and by the way, I'm a big fan of Robert Randolph .

I strongly disagree with that,I'd rank only Ray Charles and maybe Chuck and/or Elvis above him.

Holly was 100% inferior to Ray Charles, B.B. King, Chuck Berry and (besides, of course, as an instrumentalist) to Elvis, as he would most likely admit himself. Bo Diddley is MUCH more talented and important to Rock'n'Roll music, and Holly stole a lot of things from him too. That's pretty much a fact. Little Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis rocked MUCH HARDER and were arguably way more talented as instrumentalists and vocalists. Fats Domino...he came first before anybody and I personally just like him better. Gene Vincent and Eddie Cochran...I like their music and singing styles better genenrally, but they were on same artistic level.

I also generally like Carl Perkins and Bill Haley more, although I can't argue that many of Holly's songs were some of the best ever.

Bob Dylan,The Rolling Stones and The Greateful Dead too.

Not to mention Los Lobos,Marty Stuart,James Taylor,The Everly Brothers,Peter And Gordon,Linda Ronsdat,The Band and oh yes,Waylon Jennings [who played bass in Buddy's band].

Many others too.

And I know music students and professional musicians [especially several who are folk oriented ,which you are not] who disagree with you and their opinions are just as vailid as yours or anybody's else's.

My acoustic stuff is very influenced by folk and old country, I'd say. I play and listen to all kinds of music, although I'll admit my bias toward Blues inspired music.

[Truth Teller]

Originally Posted by GanjaFreebird

True, and yet I see no evidence that any of DC could sing, play or write anywhere as great as Holly. DIFFERENT LEVELS . And again, I like DC alot, and by the way, I'm a big fan of Robert Randolph .

Yeah,but.......

Holly was 100% inferior to Ray Charles, B.B. King, Chuck Berry and (besides, of course, as an instrumentalist) to Elvis, as he would most likely admit himself. Bo Diddley is MUCH more talented and important to Rock'n'Roll music, and Holly stole a lot of things from him too. That's pretty much a fact. Little Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis rocked MUCH HARDER and were arguably way more talented as instrumentalists and vocalists. Fats Domino...he came first before anybody and I personally just like him better. Gene Vincent and Eddie Cochran...I like their music and singing styles better genenrally, but they were on same artistic level.

Songwriting is important to and as a songwriter of that era I'd rank only Ray Charles above him and Chuck Berry as equal .


Once again,you base your opinions on your criteria which are instrumentation ,melody [hence your Mc Cartney preference over Lennon] and your blues bias [more on that later] and without stating your biases upfront that is deceptive.


As Jimmy Guterman [who by the way is upfront about his biasaes] says that anybody who wrote the number of great songs Holly wrote over a long career would be regarded as one of the greatest songwrtiers ever,Holly wrote all those songs and he was just starting.

Songwriting is very importiant [and I mean both lyrics and music,not just music]to me,so what I said about Holly still stands under my criteria.

My acoustic stuff is very influenced by folk and old country, I'd say. I play and listen to all kinds of music, although I'll admit my bias toward Blues inspired music.

Once again,virtually every musician,music student and music historian that I know that is folk-based or has a strong folk/acoustic bias [and I know a lot of them] rates The Dixie Chicks very highly,your bais is twords blues,which could explain your underestimatetations of both the DC's and Holly.

[GanjaFreebird]

Songwriting is important to and as a songwriter of that era I'd rank only Ray Charles above him and Chuck Berry as equal .

As a songwriter (although he was GREAT very often, ESPECIALLY for being so young)...he couldn't even compare to Charles or Berry, I'm sorry.

"Johnny B. Goode" and "What I Said" have proved to be greater and more influential on music since than anything Holly ever written. I wouldn't compare ANYBODY to Ray or Chuck, it's almost as bad as comparing anybody to Lennon or Dylan.

Also, as far as only songwriting goes, I'd argue that Bo Diddley is a greater, WAYY more original and probably more influential songwriter and his 50 years worth of music prove so. I personally like Little Richard's songs MUCH more, and I'd say that Carl Perkins and Fats Domino were as great of songwriters if not greater.

Once again,you base your opinions on your criteria which are instrumentation ,melody [hence your Mc Cartney preference over Lennon]

McCartney was and is a better instrumentalist than Lennon in general (and better than even most musicians, period...I've seen him live recently, he's AMAZING on anything he plays- bass, piano, electric guitar, acoustic guitar...even greater than I always thought he was), and with some exceptions he did write better melodies than Lennon. Lennon himself wouldn't deny any of it.

As Jimmy Guterman [who by the way is upfront about his biasaes] says that anybody who wrote the number of great songs Holly wrote over a long career would be regarded as one of the greatest songwrtiers ever,Holly wrote all those songs and he was just starting.

And yet he's no Chuck Berry or Bo Diddley. I'm sorry, but FEW if any people ever reached THAT level.

Songwriting is very importiant [and I mean both lyrics and music,not just music]to me,so what I said about Holly still stands under my criteria.

Whatever, Berry was writing REAL great poetry with social messages and controversy back when Holly and everybody else were still writing mostly love songs. He is superior to Holly as a lyrics writer as much as he is a superior musical innovator and instrumentalist. There is NO comparison.

Once again,virtually every musician,music student and music historian that I know that is folk-based or has a strong folk/acoustic bias [and I know a lot of them] rates The Dixie Chicks very highly

Why is folk bias ok, while blues bias is not?

It's two different styles, and while folk requires better lyrics, blues requires better musicianship...totaly different things and none is technically superior over the other.

your bais is twords blues,which could explain your underestimatetations of both the DC's and Holly.

What are you talking about? I admire Buddy Holly and always have (didn't I say that it's dumb to compare DC to him), I just don't believe he's on the level of Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Elvis or Bo Diddley OVERALL (which means, singing, songwriting, originality, incluence and instrumentation)...as for DC, I like them a lot (and by the way, they can cover Bonnie Raitt VERY GOOD in my opinion), and one only has to be objective (not always biased towards blues) to think that they can't compare to Chuck Berry, Muddy Waters, Bo Diddley or even Buddy Holly .

[Truth Teller]

"You're right from your side ,I'm right from mine"-Bob Dylan.

We'll have to leave it at that because otherwise we'll just keep going around in cricles [and I hate debates that go that way,besides ,I've got plans for tonight].

I'll close by saying that I did a lot of driving today, and in the car I listened to two artists : Buddy Holly and John Fahey ,the Holly music was just so good and reinforced everything I've said here [ and driving back country roads with John Fahey on is a cosmic experience that everyone should have ].

[GanjaFreebird]

"You're right from your side ,I'm right from mine"-Bob Dylan.

We'll have to leave it at that because otherwise we'll just keep going around in cricles [and I hate debates that go that way,besides ,I've got plans for tonight].

I'll close by saying that I did a lot of driving today, and in the car I listened to two artists : Buddy Holly and John Fahey ,the Holly music was just so good and reinforced everything I've said here [ and driving back country roads with John Fahey on is a cosmic experience that everyone should have ].

Buddy Holly is great...I just don't think he was on the level of Ray, Chuck or Elvis, that's all...doesn't mean he isn't one of the best nevertheless.

[Farnsworth,Luther P.]

Please remember, George W. Bush comes from Texas.

He comes from Connecticut, actually, and was educated in the finest New England schools: Andover, Harvard, and Yale ... he was too stupid to be accepted at the University Of Texas; they rejected him ...

You can't blame George W. on Texas ...

LBJ? Yes. George? No.

In any case, It's certain most of Lubbock did indeed hate him, until he got famous, and therefore useful to the local Chamber Of Commerce as advertising and boosterism. His relatives are full of it.

As for the Dixie Chicks, Merle Haggard said it best about speaking out these days. I can't find the interview just yet, but maybe most of you heard it? The one where he said he would like to leave the U.S.? It was pretty good Merle populism ...

I'd much rather listen to the Dixie Chicks than Holly. But then I don't have to hang out with a pretentiously affected peer group every day and practice, like some of you seem to have to do; no offense meant, seriously. So, I get to enjoy music for it's own sake, and not for it's 'peer approval'.

[colonel]

Just stumbled across this old gem. Never saw it the first time around.

Now if Buddy had an opinion about the Chix I might be tempted to hear what he had to say.

What his family has to say about them is of absolutely no interest to me at all.

[GROFF200]

The fact is during the 50s and 60s musicians like Buddy Holly and Elvis becamse popular by copying black music, and if they were alive today they would probably be among the firt to admit this. Almost any of the R&B and Blues artists at the time hold up better today than the comparable pop music ripoff versions, at least in my opinion.
I'm not a fan of the Dixie Chicks, but I definitely don't see why it's worth getting mad at them over a Buddy Holly reference.

[Truth Teller]

Originally Posted by GROFF200

The fact is during the 50s and 60s musicians like Buddy Holly and Elvis becamse popular by copying black music, and if they were alive today they would probably be among the firt to admit this.

If you said Pat Boone and Georgia Gibbs I'd agree with you,that however was not the case with either Elvis Presley or Buddy Holly.

Holly wrote his own material.

Presley was not a songwriter but he did original material whenever he could,when he had to do covers [either before he became famous or as album filler] he never copied any original version but did them in his own creative versions.

And some of his versions were way,way superior to the originals [ especially his versions of The Drifters' "Money Honey" and the doo wop group named The Eagles' "Trying To Get To You".

And [unlike Pat Boone or Georgia Gibbs] Elvis [even at Sun] never released a cover version until long after the original had gotten as far as it could go up the charts and he very easily could have done so if he wanted to [in fact RCA tired to get him to do it and he said "no"].

Almost any of the R&B and Blues artists at the time hold up better today than the comparable pop music ripoff versions, at least in my opinion.

I'd agree,the problem is that neither Presley or Holly did that,you got your facts right but the people wrong.

[GanjaFreebird]

If you said Pat Boone and Georgia Gibbs I'd agree with you,that however was not the case with either Elvis Presley or Buddy Holly.

Holly wrote his own material.

At the time when there weren't too many famous pop or rock singers who were also the songwriters of their songs and in addition, great instrumentalists...Buddy Holly was all of that, as was Ray Charles, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, Eddie Cochran, Bo Diddley and a few others.

Presley was not a songwriter but he did original material whenever he could,when he had to do covers [either before he became famous or as album filler] he never copied any original version but did them in his own creative versions.

That's true .

And some of his versions were way,way superior to the originals [ especially his versions of The Drifters' "Money Honey" and the doo wop group named The Eagles' "Trying To Get To You".

My band occasionally covers "Money Honey"...I love that song

And [unlike Pat Boone or Georgia Gibbs] Elvis [even at Sun] never released a cover version until long after the original had gotten as far as it could go up the charts and he very easily could have done so if he wanted to [in fact RCA tired to get him to do it and he said "no"].

True. Many people have a problem with Elvis getting much more credit that Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Bo Diddley, Fats Domino and others, and to a point I do agree (despite Elvis being my favorite vocalist ever and one of my top 5 favorite artists ever).

The the same way I sometimes feel about B.B. King (one of my top favorite artists/guitarists as well, not to mention that I can't thank him enough for peronally helping my band out, as he's known to help many younger musicians). He's the King of the Blues, however, I feel that people like Albert King, Freddy King, Lightnin' Hopkins or Albert Collins are, in many ways, just as great (or almost as great), and don't get enough credit.

I can especially say this about famous Blues and Rock musicians of my generation ...I may like John Mayer and Jonny Lang, they play good guitar and help to keep Blues oriented music alive, but I have a problem that they get all of that attention (and being compared to SRV and Clapton, despite not even having 1% of their talent), while REAL amazing young Blues-Rock musicians like Joe Bonamassa and Philip Sayce (who are MUCH superior guitarists/songwriters and even singers) are not anywhere as known.

I'd agree,the problem is that neither Presley or Holly did that,you got your facts right but the people wrong.