New Yorker article on Human Rights Abuses in Iraq

[Mr. Anarky]

Below are excerpts from the New Yorker article that Sec. Rummy mentioned yesterday in his press conference. If this article is correct, the abuses were NOT isolated incidents but part of a planned strategy to get as much information from detainees as possible:

>>Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees; pouring cold water on naked detainees; beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair; threatening male detainees with rape; allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell; sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick, and using military working dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting a detainee…

In letters and e-mails to family members, Frederick repeatedly noted that the military-intelligence teams, which included C.I.A. officers and linguists and interrogation specialists from private defense contractors, were the dominant force inside Abu Ghraib. In a letter written in January, he said:
I questioned some of the things that I saw . . . such things as leaving inmates in their cell with no clothes or in female underpants, handcuffing them to the door of their cell—and the answer I got was, “This is how military intelligence (MI) wants it done.” . . . . MI has also instructed us to place a prisoner in an isolation cell with little or no clothes, no toilet or running water, no ventilation or window, for as much as three days…

In November, Frederick wrote, an Iraqi prisoner under the control of what the Abu Ghraib guards called “O.G.A.,” or other government agencies—that is, the C.I.A. and its paramilitary employees—was brought to his unit for questioning. “They stressed him out so bad that the man passed away. They put his body in a body bag and packed him in ice for approximately twenty-four hours in the shower. . . . The next day the medics came and put his body on a stretcher, placed a fake IV in his arm and took him away.” The dead Iraqi was never entered into the prison’s inmate-control system, Frederick recounted, “and therefore never had a number.”…

There was evidence dating back to the Afghanistan war, the Ryder report said, that M.P.s had worked with intelligence operatives to “set favorable conditions for subsequent interviews”—a euphemism for breaking the will of prisoners…

The Taguba study noted that more than sixty per cent of the civilian inmates at Abu Ghraib were deemed not to be a threat to society, which should have enabled them to be released…

As the international furor grew, senior military officers, and President Bush, insisted that the actions of a few did not reflect the conduct of the military as a whole. Taguba’s report, however, amounts to an unsparing study of collective wrongdoing and the failure of Army leadership at the highest levels. The picture he draws of Abu Ghraib is one in which Army regulations and the Geneva conventions were routinely violated, and in which much of the day-to-day management of the prisoners was abdicated to Army military-intelligence units and civilian contract employees. Interrogating prisoners and getting intelligence, including by intimidation and torture, was the priority. …<<

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact

[Mr. Anarky]

"WASHINGTON - President Bush (news - web sites) told a skeptical Arab world on Wednesday that the treatment of Iraqi prisoners by some members of the U.S. military was "abhorrent" and does not represent "the America that I know." He stopped short of apologizing."

http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid...s_armed_forces

The buck stops nowhere in America.

[caddis]

He stopped short of apologizing."

And that broke the heart of everyone on the left.

Why should he?

[Mr. Anarky]

Originally posted by caddis


Why should he?

As the highest representative of USA foreign policy, he ought to apologize to the prisoners and their families on behalf of the American people. Then there is the obvious pragmatic reason: if he wants to help smooth things over w/ people in the region, he should apologize, given that the cultures in the region are monotheistic and, as such, apologizing is seen as an act of repentance.

The real reason he didn’t apologize is because he didn’t want his apology to become part of a TV campaign commercial against him. Politics precedes principle.

[Mr. Anarky]

The story of "ghost detainees":

"US military policemen moved unregistered Iraqi prisoners, known as "ghost detainees", around an army-run jail at Abu Ghraib, in order to hide them from the Red Cross, according to a confidential military report."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...209681,00.html

[DngrMse]

Originally posted by prof anarky

The real reason he didn’t apologize is because he didn’t want his apology to become part of a TV campaign commercial against him. Politics precedes principle.

And we can certainly agree that anyone who'd use the President's expression of contrition for political gain is lower than slime, right?

[Mr. Anarky]

Originally posted by DngrMse


And we can certainly agree that anyone who'd use the President's expression of contrition for political gain is lower than slime, right?

I know that this dem vs. repub debate is all important to some people, but it matters little to me. Since I know that the REAL spectrum of political alternatives are far wider than what either the repubs or dems offer, I realize that the differences between the dems & repubs are minute compared to their glaring similarties (witness their joint decision to enter this immoral Iraq war and on the grounds of what was always a bogus claim of threat from Iraq).

My target is USA hegemony: the USA as an imperial power and as the greatest terrorist state in operation today in the world, regrdless of which party dominates the whitehouse.

[DngrMse]

Originally posted by prof anarky




My target is USA hegemony: the USA as an imperial power and as the greatest terrorist state in operation today in the world, regrdless of which party dominates the whitehouse.

Now that we're moving into the sublime, I'll just add this, "spodwisket flobtrot".

[frankiep]

Originally posted by prof anarky

My target is USA hegemony: the USA as an imperial power and as the greatest terrorist state in operation today in the world, regrdless of which party dominates the whitehouse.

You're insane

[caddis]

Originally posted by prof anarky


As the highest representative of USA foreign policy, he ought to apologize to the prisoners and their families on behalf of the American people. ...apologizing is seen as an act of repentance.

An apology and to repent would imply that Bush or the the US was at fault because of some policy that condoned this behavior and repenting would be seeking to mend our ways. None of this is true. Those that broke the rules need to apologize or repent. The ACTIONS of our president and our military concerning this incident should be what matters. We as a nation have nothing to feel sorry for. We don't condone the behavior. We haven't given any tacit approval nor have we been silent in our condemnation

Originally posted by prof anarky
My target is USA hegemony: the USA as an imperial power and as the greatest terrorist state in operation today in the world, regrdless of which party dominates the whitehouse.

You have a twisted sense of reality if you believe the US is the greatest terrorist state

[Mr. Anarky]

"BAGHDAD — Abdel Rahman remembers an American soldier pointing a gun at his head and groin. You've been found guilty of killing our troops and must die, he says the soldier told him. The soldier pulled the trigger. It was a stun gun. The electrical shock jolted through Rahman's body. He fainted."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...home-headlines

[Mr. Anarky]

Originally posted by caddis

An apology and to repent would imply that Bush or the the US was at fault because of some policy that condoned this behavior and repenting would be seeking to mend our ways. None of this is true....We haven't given any tacit approval nor have we been silent in our condemnation

Can you name one nation in the world that has an EXPLICIT policy of torturing its prisoners? When did we acknowledge it? Only after CBS broke the news did the govt fully acknowledge the abuses, even then the govt got CBS to hold off on the story for several days:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0504-12.htm

Even knowing that the story would break did not prompt a confession from the government; it didn't even prompt Rummy to tell congress about it when he was he was before them just a few days before the story broke, as Biden, McCain & others are complaining.

Reports coming in now say that Bush knew abut the allegations in December and that Rummy never read anything but the summary of a report about it a few months ago. So far the President hasn't read that much.

This lack of concern does not match the sudden "outrage" by Bush et al about these actions now that the stories are smeared over the world press. What the lack of concern indicates is that these interrogation methods were an unofficial policy of the USA that the government hoped would never be exposed. Govt officials now mouthing phrases like we "condemn" these actions and would never "condone" them is merely an exercise in plausible denial.

I know that this vision doesn't accord w/ the cheery patriotic view Americans like to have of their country. Oh well. History is replete w/ people made fools because of patriotism.

[CYLLON]

Originally posted by prof anarky




My target is USA hegemony: the USA as an imperial power and as the greatest terrorist state in operation today in the world, regrdless of which party dominates the whitehouse.

insane conspiracey nuts are everywhere.
kiss your hero every day do you??

Worst terrorist state....

[CYLLON]

Originally posted by prof anarky


Can you name one nation in the world that has an EXPLICIT policy of torturing its prisoners? When did we acknowledge it?

We just got rid of one. Saudi arabia comes to mind as does N.Korea china{wate, they just cut them up and sale their body parts...does that count** and a few others but why bother. The Eviiiiiil Americans are always to blame.

[CYLLON]

Originally posted by prof anarky


Can you name one nation in the world that has an EXPLICIT policy of torturing its prisoners? When did we acknowledge it? Only after CBS broke the news did the govt fully acknowledge the abuses, even then the govt got CBS to hold off on the story for several days:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0504-12.htm

Even knowing that the story would break did not prompt a confession from the government; it didn't even prompt Rummy to tell congress about it when he was he was before them just a few days before the story broke, as Biden, McCain & others are complaining.

Reports coming in now say that Bush knew abut the allegations in December and that Rummy never read anything but the summary of a report about it a few months ago. So far the President hasn't read that much.

This lack of concern does not match the sudden "outrage" by Bush et al about these actions now that the stories are smeared over the world press. What the lack of concern indicates is that these interrogation methods were an unofficial policy of the USA that the government hoped would never be exposed. Govt officials now mouthing phrases like we "condemn" these actions and would never "condone" them is merely an exercise in plausible denial.

I know that this vision doesn't accord w/ the cheery patriotic view Americans like to have of their country. Oh well. History is replete w/ people made fools because of patriotism.

And these investigations started when???? I beleive around january.
What do you want, full page adds in the Times

[Mr. Anarky]

Originally posted by CYLLON
And these investigations started when???? I beleive around january.
What do you want, full page adds in the Times

How long does it take to look at pictures? Rummy & the President both said that they never saw them until CBS broadcasted them. Does it take since January to do that?

You can't be serious!

[CYLLON]

Originally posted by prof anarky


How long does it take to look at pictures? Rummy & the President both said that they never saw them until CBS broadcasted them. Does it take since January to do that?

You can't be serious!

The president is not an investigater and pictures alone are hardly grounds for conviction. You are just so ready to hang people. Thank GOD YOU are not in charge.

When the abuse charges were first announced, U.S. military officials declined to provide details about the evidence. But on Wednesday, at a news briefing in Baghdad, Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said the investigation began in January when an American soldier reported the abuse and turned over evidence that included photographs.
http://www.rense.com/general52/usmil.htm

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/stor...x66&n=43966144
The US military had been looking into the alleged abuse of prisoners well before the pictures emerged.

Lt Gen Ricardo Sanchez, commander of US forces in Iraq, ordered a criminal investigation last January into alleged abuse of detainees.

You cant be serious about Bush and Cheney being the investigaters??


First you say they took to long looking at pictures then you sau they did not see them ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????

[Powerboss]

Looks like we have a new addition to the DA Black Helicopter Brigade.

[CYLLON]

By the way prof...welcom abord ....but you are WAYYYYYY out there.

[Mr. Anarky]

"First you say they took to long looking at pictures then you sau they did not see them ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????"

Oh, I at least thought you were above distorting someone's words. Yes, they didn't look at the pictures UNTIL we all did: when CBS showed them on TV. They did not look at them BEFORE then. There is not the least bit of paradox there, unless you have difficulty comprehending events happening in time.

Rummy said that he received the complete report including the pictures, but only read the summary of the report, never looked at the photos or the reports attachments. If he is not to examine these matters, then why did he get all of the material in the report?

Your bit about Rummy and the Prez needing to be investigators (as if that is what I suggested) is just an obvious smoke screen. Anyone can look at these pictures and can see that they are abusive. If you don't see them them as abusive, then your cognitive problems far exceed your temporal ones suggested above.

Try harder, pal. So far, you are sounding like a priest justifying his rape of a child.