France bans Muslim headscarves, Christian crosses in schools

[Jay GW]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3474673.stm

French MPs back headscarf ban

There are about five million Muslims living in France.

French MPs have voted by a massive majority to ban the Islamic headscarf and all other overt religious symbols from state schools.

The bill was passed by 494 votes to 36. It now goes to the upper house, the Senate, for approval.

The wearing of Jewish skullcaps, large Christian crosses and probably Sikh turbans would also be banned.

About 70% of French people back the controversial law - and even 40% of Muslim women, according to some polls.

Most French MPs backed the bill on the grounds that it protected the secularity of the French state, by keeping religion out of the classroom.

But some MPs, backed by Muslim leaders and rights groups, warned it could hit the integration of France's Muslims and could be seen as intolerant.

**

Scenario 1 - nobody cares, Muslims, Christians, Jews go to school just without crosses, turbans and so on.

Scenario 2 - Muslims, Jews, Christians all/some drop out of state schools, build their own schools.

?

I've worked in U.s. schools, and you see giant Christian crosses on students, especially where there are alot of Catholics. Also, teachers have the Virgin Mary picture on their desks sometimes. Jews wear skullcaps, but not all of them do. Nobody says much about it. The clothing that's banned almost everywhere is the kind that promotes gangs, they wear a symbol and color for their gang and when they see the opposing symbol/color, there's a fight. So that's been banned.

[dhaas]

Do you think this is a "covert" type move to curb the muslim population in Europe? Most religions don't require you wear their garb like muslims do. Catholics hide their crosses under ther shirts, jews take off their yamika (sp?) while in school, but muslim women wearing a head scarf or a man wearing the muslim head dress/cap, which are tied directly to the religion as a requirement (for lack of a better term) would be more difficult to remove without "violating" the rules of their religion.

It will be interesting to see how each religious group reacts to the ban.

[Feenix566]

Originally posted by Jay GW
I've worked in U.s. schools, and you see giant Christian crosses on students, especially where there are alot of Catholics. Also, teachers have the Virgin Mary picture on their desks sometimes. Jews wear skullcaps, but not all of them do. Nobody says much about it. The clothing that's banned almost everywhere is the kind that promotes gangs, they wear a symbol and color for their gang and when they see the opposing symbol/color, there's a fight. So that's been banned.

For some people, identifying yourself as a Muslim or a Jew is equivolent to a gang affiliation. It's like the Bloods and the Cryps out there.

[I don't know]

Originally posted by dhaas
Do you think this is a "covert" type move to curb the muslim population in Europe? Most religions don't require you wear their garb like muslims do. Catholics hide their crosses under ther shirts, jews take off their yamika (sp?) while in school, but muslim women wearing a head scarf or a man wearing the muslim head dress/cap, which are tied directly to the religion as a requirement (for lack of a better term) would be more difficult to remove without "violating" the rules of their religion.

It will be interesting to see how each religious group reacts to the ban.

- Reactions have been seen already. Massive demonstrations across Europe. The local rightist populist party has suggested the hijab be banned from school because they don't view it as a religious symbol and are afraid that children may discover from an early age that people are different I even got a comment on it printed in one of Norway's biggest newspapers; which made my grandmother a big fan of me

The local christian party, KrF(christian people's party), are completely against it because they view it as "secular oppression". I agree in many ways.
__________________

"In your pomp and all your glory you're a poorer man than me
as you lick the boots of death born out of fear"
- Jethro Tull, "Wind up"

[Snouter]

Slobodan Milosevic, his flithy communism notwithstanding, will look more and more like a hero and Wesley Clark will look more and more like a war criminal as the invasion of the Muslim continues in the West.

[Spencer]

Slobodan Milosevic, his flithy communism notwithstanding, will look more and more like a hero and Wesley Clark will look more and more like a war criminal as the invasion of the Muslim continues in the West.

Snouter, when Europe is under Sharia Law and all of those green haired socialists are being beheaded in the new "chop chop squares" of London, Paris and Amsterdam for demanding the rights they once had under western governments; I hope you tell everyone "I told you so."

[Victor7]

The only option the so-called liberal French have is banning and censorship because no-one with a brain buys their equality BS.

[I don't know]

Originally posted by Snouter
Slobodan Milosevic, his flithy communism notwithstanding, will look more and more like a hero and Wesley Clark will look more and more like a war criminal as the invasion of the Muslim continues in the West.

- And you can't look like more of an idiot regardless of what happens. The one joy of being on the bottom, I suppose

Originally posted by Victor7
The only option the so-called liberal French have is banning and censorship because no-one with a brain buys their equality BS.

- Oh joy, another one who's bought "the conservative package". Chirac is not a liberal, nor would I call him a good socialist, he's merely an annoying prick, and the only reason he's in power is because he's a better alternative than Le Pen.
__________________

"In your pomp and all your glory you're a poorer man than me
as you lick the boots of death born out of fear"
- Jethro Tull, "Wind up"

[Jay GW]

Just so long as Chirac doesn't follow Juppe and Dumas to jail for corruption, he's can't be that bad.

[caddis]

Originally posted by I don't know
Chirac is not a liberal, nor would I call him a good socialist, he's merely an annoying prick...

Aren't these all the same?

[I don't know]

Originally posted by caddis
Aren't these all the same?

-

Liberal - supporter of an ideology that stresses the freedom of the individual as important (Chirac suggested banning headscarves, hardly very liberal of him)

Socialist - supporter of an ideology that wants everyone to work as they're able and recieve as they need.

Annoying prick - a spiteful or contemptible man often having some authority.

__________________

"In your pomp and all your glory you're a poorer man than me
as you lick the boots of death born out of fear"
- Jethro Tull, "Wind up"

[Spencer]

Chirac is not a liberal, nor would I call him a good socialist, he's merely an annoying prick...

Chirac is a conservative actually.

[Vespasian]

I would be happier if they banned Islam, Christianity, and Judaism altogether.

[Malcolm Wright]

The banning of the head scarves has little to do with positions along the political spectrum.

It is an extension of the French belief that the public school system should be independant from religious influence.

Cheers,

M.

[Cd.]

The French Government is run by right wing bigots. Its pretty well known. This all has to do with Chirac and his thugs.