Irish church covered up abuse

[Dogberry]

From the 'no shit Sherlock' files.

They needed an enquiry for this?

Boy i am Glad my parents weren't religious

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8381119.stm

A damning report into clerical child abuse in the Dublin archdiocese has criticised the Catholic Church hierarchy for covering up the abuse.

The report investigated how Church and state authorities handled allegations of child abuse against 46 priests.

It found that the Church placed its own reputation above the protection of children in its care.

It also said that state authorities facilitated the cover-up by allowing the Church to operate outside the law.

Reacting to the report, the current Archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin said "no words of apology would ever be sufficient" and offered "to each and every survivor my apology, sorrow and shame".

The "Report of the Commission of Investigation into the Catholic Archdiocese of Dublin" covered a period from 1975 to 2004.

It has laid bare a culture of concealment where church leaders prioritised the protection of their own institution above that of vulnerable children in their care.

Victims

The report said the avoidance of public outrage, which would inevitably follow high-profile prosecutions, appeared more important than preventing abusers from repeating their crimes.


Victim Marie Collins: "This is the end of a very long road"

Instead of reporting the allegations to civic authorities, those accused of horrific crimes were systematically shuffled from parish to parish where they could prey on new, unsuspecting victims.

The report stated: "The Dublin archdiocese's pre-occupations in dealing with cases of child sexual abuse, at least until the mid 1990s, were the maintenance of secrecy, the avoidance of scandal, the protection of the reputation of the Church, and the preservation of its assets."

It also said that the archdiocese "did its best to avoid any application of the law of the state".

It found that four archbishops - John Charles McQuaid who died in 1973, Dermot Ryan who died in 1984, Kevin McNamara who died in 1987, and retired Cardinal Desmond Connell - did not hand over information on abusers.

The report said that authorities in the Dublin archdiocese who were dealing with complaints of child sexual abuse "were all very well educated people".

It added that, considering many of them had qualifications in canon law, and in some cases civil law, their claims of ignorance were "very difficult to accept".

Above the law

Civic authorities in Ireland, especially the police, were also criticised for their cosy relationship with the Church.


Irish Justice Minister Dermot Ahern: "Persons who committed these dreadful crimes...will continue to be pursued"

The report states that senior members of the force regarded priests as being outside their remit and it claims some police officers reported abuse complaints to Church authorities instead of carrying out their own investigation.

The commissioner of the Irish police, Fachtna Murphy, said it made for "difficult and disturbing reading, detailing as it does many instances of sexual abuse and failure on the part of both Church and State authorities to protect victims".

He added: "The commission has found that in some cases, because of acts or omissions, individuals who sought assistance did not always receive the level of response or protection which any citizen in trouble is entitled to expect from An Garda Síochána (the Irish police).

He said he was "deeply sorry" for the failures.

The Irish Minister for Justice, Dermot Ahern, whose department commissioned the report, called it a "scandal on an astonishing scale" where the "welfare of children counted for nothing".

He vowed to bring those who had carried out the abuse to justice, regardless of the amount of time which had passed.

The Commission's work concentrated on a "representative sample" of complaints made by 320 children against 46 priests, 11 of whom were convicted of sexual assaults on children.

The number of complaints of abuse made by boys was more than double those submitted by girls.

The Commission said it was satisfied that "effective structures and procedures currently in operation" and that all complaints of clerical child sexual abuse are now reported to police.

Thursday's report comes six months after the publication of the Ryan report in May, which took submissions from 2,000 people who said they had suffered physical and sexual abuse while in the care of Catholic-run institutions.

The Ryan report, also known as the report of the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse, found church leaders knew that sexual abuse was "endemic" in boys' institutions.

[Cd.]

My father was religious and Catholic. He would always say that abuses like this were due to the acceptence of homosexuality within the church.

I think it was too simplistic an explaination.

[86Dude]

Limey bastards. Somebody call Dogberry.

[orangikan]

Religious power corrupts and absolute religious power corrupts absolutely.

[iloveislam]

Originally Posted by Cd.

My father was religious and Catholic. He would always say that abuses like this were due to the acceptence of homosexuality within the church.

I think it was too simplistic an explaination.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I have heard from a former Christian minister (not priest) who is now a Muslim that Chatholic Priests are not allowed to marry.

if this is true then I would conclude that it is because of prohibiting them from marriange that they (the Priests) resort to these actions.

In Islam, marriage is encouraged so as to avoid this.

[iloveislam]

Originally Posted by orangikan

Religious power corrupts and absolute religious power corrupts absolutely.

Wrong. Here's why:

1. You are basing a general conclusion on a specific one. i.e. You cannot generalise all religions by the action of only one.

2. There're governments around the world that are corrupt but they are not religious at all, nor do they put religion into their system of governance.

[Pappy&Me]

Originally Posted by Cd.

My father was religious and Catholic. He would always say that abuses like this were due to the acceptence of homosexuality within the church.

I think it was too simplistic an explaination.

Man was not made to be celibate ! Thats why some of them were pervert child molesters .

They don't call it " Roman Catholic " for nothing .

[Pappy&Me]

Originally Posted by iloveislam

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I have heard from a former Christian minister (not priest) who is now a Muslim that Chatholic Priests are not allowed to marry.

if this is true then I would conclude that it is because of prohibiting them from marriange that they (the Priests) resort to these actions.

In Islam, marriage is encouraged so as to avoid this.

In ' radical ' islam the child can be married at the age of 6 and taken by the man at age 9 . So who gives a damn about that bloodthirsty cult of liars, murderers and thives . Where mother tell their woman abusing sons to go die and blow up people . What is the difference in radicals and ' moderates '?

I just hope our military wises up to your crap .

[IFF]

words cannot describe the feelings on the anger on the abuses that the church have perpetrated on children

[Truth Teller]

I say cellibacy is a major reason.

Cellibates are sexually immature people,sexual immaturity and pedophillia go hand in hand.

[Snouter]

The NEW Testament requires celebrates according to PAUL! Of course the tAlmud kicks the OLD testament insanity up a notch and apparently encourages jewish rabbis to suck the jewish boys' blood right after the mutilation of the foreskin, so clearly the mid east cults are quite perverted.

[Lulu]

It looks like they may not have a problem in the next few decades. They can't find anyone who wants to be a priest. I tend to think the celibacy leads some pedophiles into the profession in the first place. The coverup that's been going on for years in the Catholic Church is a crime. They have simply moved some of these perverts from one church to another and never warned families.

He hasn't placed classified ads in the Irish press just yet, but according to Father Patrick Rushe, coordinator of vocations with the Catholic Church in Ireland, "we've done just about everything" else to attract young men to the priesthood. And yet, the call of service in one of Europe's most religious countries is falling on more deaf ears than ever. (See pictures of Pope Benedict XVI.)


Earlier this month, the Archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid Martin, made a grim prediction about the future of the church in Ireland: If more young priests aren't found quickly, the country's parishes may soon not have enough clergy to survive. He told the congregation at St. Mary's Pro-Cathedral in Dublin that his own diocese had 46 priests aged 80 or over, but only two under 35 years old. It's a similar story all over the island. According to a 2007 study of Catholic dioceses in the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, about half of all priests are between the ages of 55 and 74.

The scandals have undoubtedly made it difficult to bring new men into the priesthood. Father Brian D'Arcy, superior of the Passionist Monastery in Enniskillen, Northern Ireland, says the only way to reverse the trend may be to relax the strict rules governing priests' lifestyles. Top of his list? The vow of celibacy. "Of course it would be a big help if priests were allowed to marry or if we could ordain married men," he says. Earlier this month, he says, a priest in the Derry diocese, Father Sean McKenna, announced to his congregation that he was in a relationship with a woman and was stepping down. His parishioners gave him a standing ovation. "Good men are being driven out by foolish [rules]," D'Arcy says. (Read a brief history of celibacy.)


But some clerical leaders say that allowing married or female clergy won't solve the problem. "They're easy solutions on paper but the crisis is deeper," says Father Patrick Rushe, vocations coordinator for the 26 dioceses in Ireland and Northern Ireland. He points out that the Anglican Church, which permits both married and female clergy, is also facing a shortage of vocations. "[Becoming a priest] is a lifetime commitment and a sacrifice. I think that's what's putting people off. It's not just celibacy," he says.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/2009112...08599194266500

[lily]

I didn't even read the article yet, but this is basically what I was just talking about in my last post.

http://www.discussanything.com/forum...8&postcount=21

I hope neutrino read this.

[Truth Teller]

I ma not bashing the Catholic faith,there is a lot about it I love,admire and resepct.

I especailly admire the fact that both Catholics and Jews enourage education (unlike the Protestant faith/culture I was raised in) and that is why you will find Protestants going for such foolishness as creationism that you don't find Jews or Catholics going for.

But,as much as I admire and in many ways love the Catholic faith,I do think they are in the Dark Ages on many issues and especailly in regards to issues dealing with sex and sexuality.

I should add I'm refering to modern time and the modern ways faiths are practiced,I have no use for fundementalism in any faith.

[iloveislam]

Originally Posted by Pappy&Me

In ' radical ' islam ...
I just hope our military wises up to your crap .

You have just proven to be another typical american (even if you are not!)

I would suggest you do a good study of Islam from an authentic source rather than relying on your western media to spoon feed you about Islam.

...and no, the military is not solution to all the problems...

[Cd.]

Originally Posted by iloveislam

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I have heard from a former Christian minister (not priest) who is now a Muslim that Chatholic Priests are not allowed to marry.

if this is true then I would conclude that it is because of prohibiting them from marriange that they (the Priests) resort to these actions.

In Islam, marriage is encouraged so as to avoid this.

I see it as a bit more complicated. Because one is not married does not mean that they are pediophiles.

As for Islam, I believe that there are Monastic orders within Islam such as the Suffi and Dervi communities. Its fairly in common in a lot of religious traditions. Monks are common in Buddhist, Hindu and Eastern Orthodox. There are even Protestant communities such as the Shakers who practice chastity. Cathoic Clergy are unique in that priests who live among the community they serve are celibate however.

I think the real problem is that Priests have always been above the law in many regions where Catholicism is the de facto established faith. And many wrong doers have sought refuge withing the priesthood.

[iloveislam]

Originally Posted by Cd.

I see it as a bit more complicated. Because one is not married does not mean that they are pediophiles.

My statements never implied that. What I meant was that if someone is prevented from marrying then he will commit sexual acts by other means such as mastrubation, sex with girl friend, sex with a prostitue, and/or rape.

Once a person marries then the chances of them having unlawful sex is decreased.

Originally Posted by Cd.

As for Islam, I believe that there are Monastic orders within Islam such as the Suffi and Dervi communities.

It does not matter what the Sufis and Dervis believe. What matters is whether the Qur'an forbids Imams to be married? And the answer to that is no.

[Cd.]

Originally Posted by iloveislam

My statements never implied that. What I meant was that if someone is prevented from marrying then he will commit sexual acts by other means such as mastrubation, sex with girl friend, sex with a prostitue, and/or rape.

Once a person marries then the chances of them having unlawful sex is decreased.

I would not dispute that. Most people who are young and in good health need some kind of sexual outlet. Having been (unwillingly) chaste for most of my life I took refuge in looking at dirty books and imaging what girls I know looked naked. Yes its sinful but I consider it unreasonable not to expect young people to not desire sex.

A very wise and reverent person I met once said that Buddhist monks are told that in able to suppress their desires, should they see a sexy woman, that they should imagine the woman as old women. I don't know if that would work for me but maybe it does for others.

Originally Posted by iloveislam

It does not matter what the Sufis and Dervis believe. What matters is whether the Qur'an forbids Imams to be married? And the answer to that is no.

While I am not familiar with the Qur'an, I do not doubt what you say.

The Bible never really said that holy men should not mary or abstain from sex, but St Paul did say that chastity was the most ideal way of life. He did recognize that men will be tempted and said that a man should take a life rather than fall into temptation. I may be mistaken but I believe that Paul was himself a married man who later in life chose a live of chastity.

The early Christain Church had men such as St Jerome and St Anthony who lived as hermits in the desert and lived extremely asthetic lives.

It was really St Augustine who made the strongest case for chastity however. Incidnetly he was a womanizer and was bi-sexual as a young man. He later conquered his desires and became a holy man.

[iloveislam]

Originally Posted by Cd.

Yes its sinful but I consider it unreasonable not to expect young people to not desire sex.

I tell you, you are more wise man than others I have met here because atleast you admit that it is sinful to watch pornography, but sadly many others think they can busy themselves with whatever filth and still try to justify it.

You're right in that it is young people (i assume you mean young adults) are sexually active. the teenage years and 20s are where i would think men and women have higher sexual desire than at any other point in their life.

Originally Posted by Cd.

A very wise and reverent person I met once said that Buddhist monks are told that in able to suppress their desires, should they see a sexy woman, that they should imagine the woman as old women. I don't know if that would work for me but maybe it does for others.

That's a nasty thing they believe (if they do).

Better thing to do would be to:

1. Marry or
2. Fast or
3. Stay with good friends (i.e. minimise time spent alone)
4. "Sway" technique - that means whenever the thought of pornography comes to mind, then block it by trying to think of something else or
5. Busy yourself in the remembrane of God
6. see psychologist
7. etc.

Originally Posted by Cd.

The Bible never really said that holy men should not mary or abstain from sex, but St Paul did say that chastity was the most ideal way of life. He did recognize that men will be tempted and said that a man should take a life rather than fall into temptation. I may be mistaken but I believe that Paul was himself a married man who later in life chose a live of chastity.

I see.

[No_Brakes]

Originally Posted by Cd.

...The Bible never really said that holy men should not mary or abstain from sex, but St Paul did say that chastity was the most ideal way of life. He did recognize that men will be tempted and said that a man should take a wife rather than fall into temptation.

Fixed. I'm a bit surprised nobody caught your typo - real big difference there, wouldn't you say!?

I may be mistaken but I believe that Paul was himself a married man who later in life chose a live of chastity. ...

I think you've got Paul mixed up with Peter.