Chavez praises Ahmadinejad, Mugabe, Idi Amin and Carlos the Jackal

[Rachuk]

Hugo Chávez has defended the jailed Venezuelan terrorist Carlos the Jackal as a freedom fighter and said his life sentence for murder was an injustice.

Venezuela's president said Carlos, whose real name is Ilich Ramírez Sánchez, was a champion of the Palestinian cause. "I defend him. I don't care what they say tomorrow in Europe," Chávez said.

Chávez also praised Zimbabwe's president, Robert Mugabe, and Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, as "brothers" and said the late Ugandan dictator, Idi Amin, may have been a misunderstood patriot.

He made the comments to an international gathering of leftist political parties in the Venezuelan capital Caracas, earning applause in the auditorium but indignation outside.

Chávez anticipated – and wanted – controversy, said Luis Vicente Leon, a pollster with Datanalisis. "This was planned and premeditated. He wants to cement his reputation as the enfant terrible on the international stage."

Soon after taking office a decade ago the tank commander-turned president praised the Jackal and called him a friend but dropped the subject after a storm of criticism.

Ramírez Sánchez, the son of a wealthy Venezuelan Marxist, gained notoriety in the 70s and 80s as the mastermind behind a series of bombings, killings and kidnappings. He teamed up with the Palestine Liberation Organisation and West Germany's Red Army Faction.

French agents abducted him from his villa near Khartoum in 1994. He was trussed up in a sack and spirited back to Paris, where now, aged 60, he is serving a life sentence for the 1975 murders of two French secret agents and a Lebanese alleged informant.

"They accuse him of being a terrorist, but Carlos really was a revolutionary fighter," Chávez said during a televised speech on Friday.

The president has been a strong critic of Israeli policies towards the Palestinians, which he has termed "genocide". Earlier this year he expelled the Israeli ambassador and broke off relations.

Chávez defended other leaders he said were wrongly branded "bad guys", including Mugabe and Ahmadinejad, a close ally who is due to visit Caracas this week during a South America tour.

He also said that Amin, whose regime is accused of killing 300,000 Ugandans in the 70s, may not have been so bad. "We thought he was a cannibal. I have doubts. I don't know, maybe he was a great nationalist, a patriot."

Ugandan officials in Kampala said that they were offended. President Yoweri Museveni's secretary, Tamale Mirundi, told AP that Amin's soldiers killed both of his parents in front of him.

Chávez has nurtured alliances with leaders who are widely considered dictators or tyrants and called himself a Maoist. But he is democratically elected and remains popular with many of the poor for spending oil revenues on social programmes.

However his poll ratings have slipped in recent months due to a shrinking economy, galloping inflation and crumbling public services, prompting water and power rationing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...-carlos-jackal

[86Dude]

Uh, yeah. Everytime I start to like that guy for being a pain in the U.S. ass he goes and says something stupid.

[Guido]

Originally Posted by 86Dude

Uh, yeah. Everytime I start to like that guy for being a pain in the U.S. ass he goes and says something stupid.

Politicians say what they believe they need to say in order to remain in the headlines.

Ask yourself whether you'd rather listen to a politician whose public discourse consists 100% of regurgitating a relatively small number of anodyne feel-good vacuous cliches (like "change we can believe in" or "hope"), or a politician who consistently says things that are unconventional, unexpected and outrageous?

Moreover, in serious moments, Chavez is a very interesting and insightful commentator on world affairs. I find it impossible to imagine any American President speaking with the kind of intelligence and honesty on display here:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20091012/grandin

GG: What is the importance of events in Honduras for the rest of the continent? There are signs that the right, the transnational right, is regrouping, and that it sees Honduras as the first battle in a larger struggle to roll back the left.

HC: They are going to fail. Of course, it is important not to underestimate the continental right. It has gone on the offensive in many places. They attacked Venezuela, hard, with the support of Bush, as you know. They attacked in Brazil, trying to destabilize Lula so the Workers Party couldn't govern. They failed. They attacked Bolivia, hard, with all the venom of a serpent, in an effort to overthrow Evo Morales. They failed. They attacked Ecuador, and Rafael Correa is still there. Then, in Honduras, they attacked what they believed to be--and in a way was--the weakest flank. But they were in for a surprise. For three months, the Honduran people have been in the street, with unprecedented strength. That's what they found on the supposed weak flank. So I think the continental right should well consider its next step. They haven't even been able to consolidate their power in Honduras, notwithstanding that they enjoy the monolithic unity of the Honduran bourgeoisie and the support of the military, so if they decide to attack again in South America, they will fail. It is a battle, a game of chess, that we are fighting everyday. But the continental right has lost its way, it doesn't have a project for governance. In the United States, the government is bailing out banks, intervening in the economy, yet in Latin America, the right continues to talk about "free markets." It's totally outdated, they don't have arguments, they don't have any sense.

GG: But they will have seven US military bases in Colombia.

HC: It seems as if there are two Barack Obamas. And hopefully, the Obama who spoke today at the United Nations will win out in the end. But it was Obama who also approved the seven military bases in Colombia. Nobody can think otherwise, because who is the president, who is the commander-in-chief of the military if not Obama? If Venezuela decided to send troops to another country, or to set up a military base in Puerto Rico, it would be me, as president, making the decision. So Obama is full of contradictions, and hopefully the people of the United States, you, the thinking public, need to push your president. If I were I New Yorker, I would say, Mr. President, why are you putting military bases in Colombia? I said to Obama in Trinidad [at the Summit of the Americas in April] what I said to Bill Clinton ten years ago--one could at least talk to Clinton--and the same I told George W. Bush--only one time, because one couldn't talk about anything with him--"let's look for peace in Colombia." Hopefully the people of the United States will demand from its president, and its government, and its congress, to stop with the politics of war throughout the world. Obama said some troublesome things today, veiled threats. I have the phrase here, if I am not mistaken, that the US "will know how to defend the interests of all." Does this mean that tomorrow Obama is going to be able to say that he has invaded Iran in order to defend the interests of Venezuela, or of Mexico, or of Algeria? No, Venezuelan interests are to be defended by Venezuela. The US should defend the interests of the US. Where are the US people, where are the intellectuals, who could put limits on their government?

GG: This is a debate now within the United States...

HC: Jimmy Carter is saying it. And hopefully Obama won't be assassinated because of it. But Obama has also taken up the theme of social reform almost as if it were a point of honor, because he made the pledge during the campaign. And also, as Obama knows, out of necessity. Everyday there is more poverty in the United States, everyday there is more uncared-for people who don't have medicine, doctors, or even education. This country is eating itself from the inside. What's happening to the American, how do you say it, Dream [in English]. I believe in the American Dream, but the dream of Martin Luther King Jr., not the dream of consumerism, unbridled capitalism or individualism, that craziness, that's not a dream it's a nightmare. Now, the recalcitrant right attacks Obama hard, calling him a socialist...

GG: Even a Nazi.

HC: Yes, a Nazi! When we met in Trinidad and shook hands, the right roasted him here for doing so: "Chávez! Why are you greeting Chávez?!" Imagine the craziness just for saying hello. It's irrational. The right here is scared that Obama is awakening a popular current in the people of the US, and they are trying to stop it. Where it is going to wind up, who knows? But I have a question, where is the US people? Where are the people, when their leader tries to propose something in benefit of the people? The people need to go out into the streets, not just to vote but to passionately protest, to support the president, so he can fulfill his promise. Where are the people?

GG: It is the right that is in the street.

HC: Yes, the right has taken over the street. There is much to do. Those who represent progressive thought--and I include you--need to know that without the people, there is no democracy. The people of the United States need to wake up, wake up and help construct a new country, a great nation, a true democracy. Obama can be an opportunity, and you need to support him with great force, in order to contain those that ferociously oppose whatever change. Like in Honduras. It's the same situation. The progressive community of the United States needs to support Obama to achieve change, and then it has to demand more change, and more change, and more change.

[86Dude]

I've missed you Guido, and you're correct, eventhough I'll never be a socialist.

[oki]

too bad he has to say stupid things, yes.

[GanjaFreebird]

The more I listen to Chavez, the more I agree with Pat Robertson about him.

He's one of those type of people that I could never stand. I bet that when he was a kid, he was probably a fat little a$shole who would beat up and bully the kids that couldn't fight back, but when somebody WOULD kick his fat ass, he would run crying and complaining and playing a victim, I can totally see that.

He's the type of guy that I would rather REALLY humilliate and tourture, rather than kill. If I had my way, I'd tie the fat pig up, feed him 2 hits of acid, put headphones on him with Toby Keith's greatest hits on rotation, and throw him in a basement for two days.

But seriously, I can't see how anybody still likes that guy.

[Pappy&Me]

Originally Posted by GanjaFreebird

The more I listen to Chavez, the more I agree with Pat Robertson about him.

He's one of those type of people that I could never stand. I bet that when he was a kid, he was probably a fat little a$shole who would beat up and bully the kids that couldn't fight back, but when somebody WOULD kick his fat ass, he would run crying and complaining and playing a victim, I can totally see that.

He's the type of guy that I would rather REALLY humilliate and tourture, rather than kill. If I had my way, I'd tie the fat pig up, feed him 2 hits of acid, put headphones on him with Toby Keith's greatest hits on rotation, and throw him in a basement for two days.

But seriously, I can't see how anybody still likes that guy.

Not with you on the torture thing but prison would be good .

He's a hero to self hating fools and other mentals like hollyhoods elite .

[GanjaFreebird]

I don't want to put him to prison or REALLY hurt him physically because it would turn him into a "hero".

Plus, public humiliation would hurt him a whole lot more than any physical pain or prison.

[Ponce]

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend"..........and that's all that he is saying......and like I keep on saying.........."Any excuse is a good excuse".

[Guido]

Originally Posted by GanjaFreebird

I don't want to put him to prison or REALLY hurt him physically because it would turn him into a "hero".

Plus, public humiliation would hurt him a whole lot more than any physical pain or prison.

He already is a hero of sorts, and he managed to achieve that status without your help, believe it or not.

There's not a lot that Pat Robertson, Sarah Palin or you can do about it, either.

[BooRadley]

I think he likes to do anything that appears to be rebelling against the United States. It keeps him popular in South America (and a lot of other places where the United States isn't held in high regard).

[orangikan]

Chavez is free to say what he wants, and the more he says the more obvious it is that someday he will become another left wing South American deposed leader. You can't lead a country and lean all the way to the right or left, and too many South American leaders have done just that. Hopefully this time it will be "the people" not the CIA, nor the landowners, who will depose him.

[GanjaFreebird]

He already is a hero of sorts, and he managed to achieve that status without your help, believe it or not.

There's not a lot that Pat Robertson, Sarah Palin or you can do about it, either.

No, but I believe that sooner or later, his own people will get rid of him, maybe with a little bit of secret help from the CIA.

I understand that you like him because he shares your views on Iran and Israel, but he also makes a lot of enemies from inside and outside, just like Saddam Hussein. I think that some third world dictators often become full of themselves really fast and foget that America is able to remove them in one day.

Also, there were quite a few dictators within the last 65 or so years, who probably thought that they will outlive Israel, and all of them are dead now.

So Chavez can say whatever he wants, but I hope he understands that the Jewish state will still be there, long after him and Ahmadinejad and the rest of their barbaric dictator friends are in their graves.

[jwreck]

Originally Posted by GanjaFreebird

If I had my way, I'd tie the fat pig up, feed him 2 hits of acid, put headphones on him with Toby Keith's greatest hits on rotation, and throw him in a basement for two days

That's you're idea of torture? Sounds like a pretty fun weekend to me.

[GanjaFreebird]

That's you're idea of torture? Sounds like a pretty fun weekend to me.

LOL.

[Guido]

Originally Posted by GanjaFreebird

No, but I believe that sooner or later, his own people will get rid of him, maybe with a little bit of secret help from the CIA.

I understand that you like him because he shares your views on Iran and Israel, but he also makes a lot of enemies from inside and outside, just like Saddam Hussein. I think that some third world dictators often become full of themselves really fast and foget that America is able to remove them in one day.

Also, there were quite a few dictators within the last 65 or so years, who probably thought that they will outlive Israel, and all of them are dead now.

So Chavez can say whatever he wants, but I hope he understands that the Jewish state will still be there, long after him and Ahmadinejad and the rest of their barbaric dictator friends are in their graves.

It seems that you are unaware that:

--the CIA already tried to overthrow Chavez in 2002. It didn't work.

--The role of the United States historically in Latin America is to install (not remove) right wing dictators.

--The fact that Chavez has taken a principled position on Israel is not central to Chavez's significance. The world does not revolve around Israel.

Maybe you should spend less time listening to Pat Robertson and more time reading history books.

Luckily for you, none of these matters are likely to appear on your test for U.S. citizenship, which will focus on things like the colors of the U.S. flag.

[BooRadley]

Originally Posted by Guido

--the CIA already tried to overthrow Chavez in 2002. It didn't work.

I wish the CIA were subject to open review. They get caught doing assassinations and kidnappings and torture and over-throwing governments, including elected governments. I'd like to know what they don't get caught doing.

[GanjaFreebird]

It seems that you are unaware that:

--the CIA already tried to overthrow Chavez in 2002. It didn't work.

Correction: Chavez CLAIMS it was the CIA. It was actually his own people.

If America REALLY wanted him to be out, he's be out by now, just like Saddam, and if he pisses America off too much, they may get to that point.

--The role of the United States historically in Latin America is to install (not remove) right wing dictators.

They install right-wing dictators by removing left-wing dictators, and Chavez should not forget that.

--The fact that Chavez has taken a principled position on Israel is not central to Chavez's significance. The world does not revolve around Israel.

No, but him pissing off America and being best friends with Muslims terrorists IS significant.

Also, anti-semitism in his country that he personally promotes has little to do with Israel. After all, the Jewish victims of anti-semitic attacks had nothing to do with any of Israel's acts.

Maybe you should spend less time listening to Pat Robertson and more time reading history books.

Robertson is an idiot, and no, I don't want to kill Chavez, I just want somebody to beat the living shit out of him and humiliate that fat pig. Although I would be a liar if I told you I'd be sad if he did die.

I dislike his personality even more than I dislike his hate for Israel, believe it or not. He's the kind of person who claims he's "brave and can fight anybody" and will beat up the weaker ones (the Jews in his country, for instance), but when somebody, who can actually kick his ass, comes around, he starts crying and whining of "imperialism".

I also used to defend him once, but no more. An evil dictator is an evil dictator, no matter if he's "left" or "right".

[GanjaFreebird]

Luckily for you, none of these matters are likely to appear on your test for U.S. citizenship, which will focus on things like the colors of the U.S. flag.

Most Americans would consider my views to be more "American" than yours. Just sayin'.

I wish the CIA were subject to open review. They get caught doing assassinations and kidnappings and torture and over-throwing governments, including elected governments. I'd like to know what they don't get caught doing.

They are criminals who fight other criminals. And if they cause problems for evil dictators like Chavez or Ahmedinejad, then more power to them, as far as I'm concerned.

[Guido]

If America REALLY wanted him to be out, he's be out by now, just like Saddam, and if he pisses America off too much, they may get to that point.

America doesn't control events any more in Latin America, and Chavez, together with the growing movement he leads is proof of that. America doesn't scare anyone these days. Chavez WISHES that America would screw with him, but there isn't much we can do in any event.

Whenever you repeat the standard right wing cliche that Chavez is a "dictator" -- democratically elected of course -- it only makes you look even more ridiculous and ignorant.