THE QUR'AN AND MODERN SCIENCE: COMPATIBLE OR INCOMPATIBLE?

[iloveislam]

THE QUR'AN AND MODERN SCIENCE: COMPATIBLE OR INCOMPATIBLE?

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Ever since the dawn of human life on this planet, Man has always sought to understand Nature, his own place in the scheme of Creation and the purpose of Life itself. In this quest for Truth, spanning many centuries and diverse civilizations, organized religion has shaped human life and determined to a large extent, the course of history. While some religions have been based on books, claimed by their adherents to be divinely inspired, others have relied solely on human experienced proof.

[Forthright]

The Myth:

Muslims often claim that their religion fostered a rich heritage of scientific discovery, “paving the way” for modern advances in technology and medicine. On this topic, they usually refer to the period between the 7th and 13th centuries, when Europe was experiencing its “Dark Ages” and the Muslim world was conquering new populations and culture.

The Truth:

Although there is no arguing that the Muslim world was more advanced during this period than the “Christian” world, the reasons for this have absolutely nothing to do with the Islamic religion (other than its mandate for military expansion). In fact, the religion actively discourages knowledge outside of itself, which is why the most prolific Muslim scholars throughout history tend to be students of religion rather than science.

There are four basic reasons why Islam has little true claim to scientific achievement:

First, the Muslim world benefited greatly from the Greek sciences, which were translated for them by Christians and Jews. To their credit, Muslims did a better job of preserving Greek text than did the Europeans of the time, and this became the foundation for their own knowledge. (One large reason for this, however, was that access by Christians to this part of their world was cut off by Muslim slave ships and coastal raids that dominated the Mediterranean during this period).

Secondly, many of the scientific advances credited to Islam were actually “borrowed” from other cultures conquered by the Muslims. The algebraic concept of “zero”, for example, is erroneously attributed to Islam, but it was, in fact, a Hindu discovery that was merely introduced to the West by Muslims.

In fact, conquered populations contributed greatly to the history of “Muslim science” until gradually being decimated by conversion to Islam (under the pressures of dhimmitude). The Muslim concentration within a population is directly proportional to the decline of scientific achievement. It is no accident that the Muslim world has had little to show for itself in the last 600 years or so, since running out of new civilizations to cannibalize.

Third, even the great Muslim scientists and icons were often considered heretics in their time, sometimes for good reason. One of the greatest achievers to come out of the Muslim world was the Persian scientist and philosopher, al-Razi. His impressive works are often held up today as “proof” of Muslim accomplishment. But what the apologists often leave out is that al-Razi was denounced as a blasphemer, since he followed his own religious beliefs – which were in obvious contradiction to traditional Islam.

Fourth, even the contributions that are attributed to Islam (often inaccurately) are not terribly dramatic. There is the invention of certain words, such as alchemy and elixir, but not much else that survives in modern technology that is of any practical significance. Neither is there any reason to believe that such discoveries would not have easily been made by the West following the cultural awakening triggered by the Reformation.

As an example of this, consider that Muslims claim credit for coffee, since the beans were discovered in Africa (at the time, an important venue for Islamic slave trading) and first processed in the Middle East. While this is true, it is also true that the red dye used in many food products, from cranberry juice to candy, comes from the abdomen of a particular female beetle found in South America. It is extremely unlikely that the West would not have stumbled across coffee by now (although, to be fair, coffee probably expedited subsequent discoveries).

In fact, the litany of “Muslim” achievement often takes the form of rhapsody, in which the true origins of these discoveries are omitted - along with their comparative significance to Western achievement. However, scientific, medical and technological accomplishments are not something over which Muslim apologists want to get into a pissing contest with the Christian world. Today’s Islamic innovators are primarily known for turning Western technology, such as cell phones and airplanes, into instruments of mass murder.

To sum up, although the Islamic religion is not entirely hostile to science, neither should it be confused as a facilitator. The great achievements that are said to have come out of the Islamic world were made either by non-Muslims who happened to be under Islamic rule, or by heretics who usually had little interest in Islam. Scientific discovery tapers off dramatically as Islam asserts dominance, until it eventually peters out altogether.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pa...am.htm#science
TheReligionofPeace - Myths of Islam

Latest Offerings from the Religion of Peace
"He who fights that Islam should be superior fights in Allah's cause"
Muhammad, prophet of Islam

2009.11.21 (North Waziristan, Pakistan) - Four security officers are killed in a rocket attack by Taliban fundamentalists.
2009.11.20 (Karachi, Pakistan) - A Sunni is shot to death by sectarian rivals.
2009.11.20 (Farah, Afghanistan) - A suicide bomber on a motorcycle detonates in the middle of a packed market, slaughtering about sixteen shoppers.
2009.11.20 (Mosul, Iraq) - Three Iraqis are blown apart by a roadside bomb.
2009.11.20 (Peshawar, Pakistan) - Jihadis take out three policmen with a shrapnel bomb.
2009.11.19 (Moscow, Russia) - An anti-Islam priest is assassinated in his own church by a suspected Muslim gunman.

[Snouter]

All middle east religions are mind flucks and crime syndicates for the elders respectively. Next question.

[Dick Tator]

Originally Posted by Snouter

All middle east religions are mind flucks and crime syndicates for the elders respectively. Next question.

Ditto.

[iloveislam]

To Forthright:

The information you copy and pasted is merely a number of claims which lacks the backing of sources of reference, not to mention reliable references.

Thus I would encourage you to look at this issue from an unbiased position and with a sincere heart, rather than going off topic, such as talking about bomb blasts.

[iloveislam]

To Snouter:

Islam is the exception.

[iloveislam]

[iloveislam]

[Forthright]

Originally Posted by iloveislam

To Forthright:

The information you copy and pasted is merely a number of claims which lacks the backing of sources of reference, not to mention reliable references.

Thus I would encourage you to look at this issue from an unbiased position and with a sincere heart, rather than going off topic, such as talking about bomb blasts.

The information you have been brain washed with is false and anything that is false is not reliable.

Considering the truths we know in regards to your false and evil prophet and the false and evil religion he started and the daily murders committed against innocent people by your ilk there is no reason to be anything but biased against Islam.

Latest Offerings from the Religion of Peace

2009.11.22 (Afmadow, Somalia) - At least two civilians are killed in the crossfire when rival Islamist groups clash.
2009.11.22 (Spin Boldak, Afghanistan) - All five passengers in a police vehicle are ripped to shreds by a Sunni bomb.
2009.11.21 (Jebel Rumayh, Saudi Arabia) - Shiite radicals infiltrate the border and kill three Saudi soldiers.
2009.11.21 (Mosul, Iraq) - A school teacher is assassinated by Muslim gunmen.
2009.11.21 (North Waziristan, Pakistan) - Four security officers are killed in a rocket attack by Taliban fundamentalists.

[iloveislam]

Watch carefully why these scientists convert to Islam...

[Forthright]

Originally Posted by iloveislam

Watch carefully why these scientists convert to Islam...

How are wild elephants broken in?

The elephant, still wild, is tied to a wooden frame or between two tree trunks where he is unable to move. And it is thus, tearing at the ropes and flailing with his trunk, that he is introduced to his mahout. In order to break it in, the young elephant is repeatedly stuck with an elephant hook [1] and beaten. At the same time, the mahout talks to him in a calming voice.

Fear, pain, thirst and hunger finally make the elephant give up all resistance. When the elephant begins to accept its fate, the mahouts allow it to take a bath in a river and to eat, although it continues to be tied to a working elephant throughout.

After a few weeks, the young elephant will be tame enough to be led, still shackled [2] and supervised by several mahouts, but no longer accompanied by working elephants. After this "initiation phase", the elephant starts its proper training to become a working elephant.

This is not unlike how Muslims are reduced into submission. Humans are born with free spirit. However, those who are unlucky enough to be born into Islamic families and those who are foolish enough to fall into the trap of Islam at a later age are reduced into submission in the same way that elephants are tamed. Their free spirit is broken in and they become submissive slaves.

Children and new Muslims are told about the fearsome hell of Allah, where humans are roasted 24/7, year round, until eternity. They will never die but burn and burn and boiling water is poured on them. The child is innocent and will believe anything his parents tell him trustingly, the foolish convert is also innocent, albeit in the pejorative sense of the word, and gobbles all this nonsense uncritically.

Once fear sets in the believer’s free spirit is broken. He will submit to any gobbledygook and fears questioning or doubting the nonsense that he is taught.

The elephant is strong enough to break his rope, toss away his mahout and walk away freely. But he won’t do it. Once his will is ‘broken in’, fear stops him from breaking away.

Muslims are smart enough to reject all the absurdities of Islam and set themselves free, but they won’t because of the fear of hell. Fear is more powerful than the desire to be free.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/islam/fear-freedom
Fear of Freedom | Islam | FaithFreedom

[iloveislam]

To Fortnight and others concerned,

Just to clarify my position, I'm not here to beg any of you guys to convert to Islam. My goal is only to spread the Message of Islam. So if you are willing to take part in an active and healthy discussion then you are welcome. If you are willing to find out more about Islam or are ready to accept it then you are also welcome.

However, pay attention to this:

Islam is not in need of me or you for its success. This Religion of God will prevail whether you like or hate it!


...as for the your (Fortnight) latest comment:

Muslims are smart enough to reject all the absurdities...

I find it ironic that you believe such absurd lies, since your claim only hit back at you! how??????

Well I presented to you 3 video of scientists converting to Islam and you are the one who rejected them by being heedless.

So your claim against Muslims rejecting absurdaties came back at you!


Btw, more such videos are on the way. So lets see what you make of them.

[iloveislam]

Here's Dr. Jeffrey Lang...(a former atheist) who is now a Muslim.

[cavemonk]

The TRUTH about Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zvYTpf0qC0

[Forthright]

Originally Posted by iloveislam

To Fortnight and others concerned,

Just to clarify my position, I'm not here to beg any of you guys to convert to Islam. My goal is only to spread the Message of Islam. So if you are willing to take part in an active and healthy discussion then you are welcome. If you are willing to find out more about Islam or are ready to accept it then you are also welcome.

However, pay attention to this:

Islam is not in need of me or you for its success. This Religion of God will prevail whether you like or hate it!


...as for the your (Fortnight) latest comment:



I find it ironic that you believe such absurd lies, since your claim only hit back at you! how??????

Well I presented to you 3 video of scientists converting to Islam and you are the one who rejected them by being heedless.

So your claim against Muslims rejecting absurdaties came back at you!


Btw, more such videos are on the way. So lets see what you make of them.

I have a blocker that blocks videos, so all I see is a blank area where you posted the videos and beyond that I don't care to take all the time it takes for a video to load in and then the time it takes to watch it. You should post things that don't have to be downloaded and that can be read in a few minutes or less.

I have seen you claim to be a peaceful Muslim in past posts and I do believe there are good Muslims throughout the world, however all you good and peaceful Muslims need to stop being defensive about the Evil Muslims who control and dominate you and get rid of them and if you accomplish this perhaps more people could then view your religion less negatively.
But until you get rid of the Evil side of your religion, you Muslims will continued to be opposed.

I and many of the people on this forum would say that you and your associates are the ones who believe in absurd lies and absurdities.

[iloveislam]

Cavemonk:

Just incase you misread the thread title, then let me remind you that its: "THE QUR'AN AND MODERN SCIENCE: COMPATIBLE OR INCOMPATIBLE?"

[iloveislam]

Originally Posted by Forthright

You should post things that don't have to be downloaded and that can be read in a few minutes or less.

you don't need to download them, just click and watch.

Originally Posted by Forthright

I have seen you claim to be a peaceful Muslim in past posts and I do believe there are good Muslims throughout the world, however all you good and peaceful Muslims need to stop being defensive about the Evil Muslims who control and dominate you and get rid of them...

There're good people and bad people in every community, so "getting rid of them" is almost an impossible task. In fact your suggestion lacks intelligence, since when in the history have you seen a group of people being rid of without some sort of violance?

This reminds me of comments I see on youtube, like "nuke 'em!"

What we can do is to advise each other in a positive manner, so that it does not insult the other persons dignity; and if they agree then good, but if they disagree then let us both depart our ways.

Originally Posted by Forthright

if you accomplish this perhaps more people could then view your religion less negatively.

How about judging a Religion on the basis of their message rather than the evil works of small group of people.

Even if there're 99.9999999% good Muslims on earth and 0.000000001% bad Muslims then your media (namely Fox, CNN, ABC, etc.) will still pick on these small individuals and portray them as examplary Muslims.

Originally Posted by Forthright

But until you get rid of the Evil side of your religion, you Muslims will continued to be opposed.

Our Religion has been opposed since its begining. So lets not talk about opposition.

Just keep in mind that Truth will always be opposed by False; and that good will always be opposed by evil.

[iloveislam]

Hear what this American Scientist says about Islam:



just to emphasise: He is:

• An American
• and a Scientist!

[Forthright]

Originally Posted by iloveislam
you don't need to download them, just click and watch.

As to downloading I was referring to that PDF in your first post.

Originally Posted by iloveislam
There're good people and bad people in every community, so "getting rid of them" is almost an impossible task. In fact your suggestion lacks intelligence, since when in the history have you seen a group of people being rid of without some sort of violance?

This reminds me of comments I see on youtube, like "nuke 'em!"

What all your statements there come down to is you a Muslim defending the actions of and the violence of bad people and then implying that nothing should be done about them, which is all quite unintelligent of you.

Originally Posted by iloveislam
What we can do is to advise each other in a positive manner, so that it does not insult the other persons dignity; and if they agree then good, but if they disagree then let us both depart our ways.

Translation of statements....Don't offend the bad Muslims just let them to continue to do what they do.

Originally Posted by iloveislam
How about judging a Religion on the basis of their message rather than the evil works of small group of people.

Even if there're 99.9999999% good Muslims on earth and 0.000000001% bad Muslims then your media (namely Fox, CNN, ABC, etc.) will still pick on these small individuals and portray them as examplary Muslims.

How about judging a Religion based on it's actions, beliefs and that religion not ignore the evil actions of a controlling and dominating group of people of it.

Originally Posted by iloveislam
Our Religion has been opposed since its begining. So lets not talk about opposition.

Just keep in mind that Truth will always be opposed by False; and that good will always be opposed by evil.

If you don't want to talk about opposition then why are you talking about it then?

You and your religion by your and it's actions and beliefs have and continue to do nothing to give reasons for people not to oppose you and your religion.

[iloveislam]

Originally Posted by Forthright

As to downloading I was referring to that PDF in your first post.

No problem!

I will post that info. on here, but the question is: will you be willing to ponder over it?

Originally Posted by Forthright

What all your statements there come down to is you a Muslim defending the actions of and the violence of bad people and then implying that nothing should be done about them, which is all quite unintelligent of you.

no. I didn't say that nothing should be done about it, but gave an alternative. go back and read that post carefully.

Originally Posted by Forthright

How about judging a Religion based on it's actions, beliefs and that religion not ignore the evil actions of a controlling and dominating group of people of it.

Judging the action of people may not lead you to the best conclusion, since you may pick on someone who you think is an examplary person and judge Islam accroding to what he does.

It's like you give new BMW car to a unqualieid driver to drive and when he/she has a crash then you blame the car!