Are Mormans to the west what Catholics are to the Northeast?

[Cd.]

I thought about it more and more and its like this. In cities of the Northeast US the Catholic Church has a lot of power and influence. In Chicago, where I grew up, you could not in the past get to any high level of anything if you were not a good standing member of the Church. Dick Daley, the mayor made sure of that.

My dad was from the west and said that the Mormon Church was really strong like that, especially in Utah, Idaho and places like that.

I think that Mormons have been grossly misunderstood through out history. Some of their doctrines may be strange to outsiders and their church is very hierarchical so there are difinate similarities.

I would add that the maker of Napoleon Dynamite is Mormon. So is the guy who sings for The Killers.

[KillZone]

I have never seen state-by-state demographics concerning Mormons, yet it is undisputable that they the majority of Mormons live in Utah, Arizona, and other western states of the USA. I don’t know if the stats would mean a great deal for even in Utah, there are more “jack-Mormans” (don’t toe the line or even try to with the Big Church) than those that do try to. Or, at least that was the situation in Salt Lake back in the 80s—I was there a great deal on business.

Interestingly, a Chinese (or an American living in China) once posted on DA that the Chinese govt could not or should not let that “cult” operate in China (that ain’t a verbatim quote or even a good paraphrase, but that’s the jest of what I understood).

I found that hysterical or perhaps surreal since Islam is allowed in China if done so via Commie standards.

Cult or Nay, the Mormons I know are a great deal nicer and more honest than am I.

Orson Scott Card, author of Ender's Game, one of the greatest Sci-Fi novels ever, is also a Mormon. Don't know if he is a jack-Mormon or not.

[Bo]

The mormon church is about as currupt as the catholic one. They're a bit wacky IMO, but oh well. We have freedom of religion in this country, so let them do what they like. Hypocracy is the name of the game; they are heavily involved in the gaming industry here in Vegas, despite considering it a "sin". That and the fact that they practice excommunication really makes it hard to respect them.

[Sparkly Mary]

Originally Posted by Betty

The mormon church is about as currupt as the catholic one. They're a bit wacky IMO, but oh well. We have freedom of religion in this country, so let them do what they like. Hypocracy is the name of the game; they are heavily involved in the gaming industry here in Vegas, despite considering it a "sin". That and the fact that they practice excommunication really makes it hard to respect them.

I have a friend who was excommunicated from the LDS church for questioning their ideology. It was very sad.

I have a huge issue with denominations that excommunicate! They way overstep their bounds, IMHO, when they decide who is and is not worthy to commune with God in their presence.

My oldest daughter converted to LDS, and then proceeded to have a child out of wedlock. They didn't excommunicate her, but she's under "restrictions" from the church, and I think that's BS.

[Bo]

Originally Posted by Sparkly Mary

I have a friend who was excommunicated from the LDS church for questioning their ideology. It was very sad.

I have a huge issue with denominations that excommunicate! They way overstep their bounds, IMHO, when they decide who is and is not worthy to commune with God in their presence.

My oldest daughter converted to LDS, and then proceeded to have a child out of wedlock. They didn't excommunicate her, but she's under "restrictions" from the church, and I think that's BS.

100% agreement.
The practice of excommunication is a sin in itself as far as I'm concerned. I made a thread on the subject about a year ago.

Originally Posted by Betty

Here's what I've been knocking around in my head. To knowingly drive another individual away from God. Some Christians will do it out of self righteousness. What you will see so often is a person saying, "I can't go to chruch. I'm not welcome there" or "After all the things I've done, I can't go to church. I've screwed up too much in my life". They do this because of the self righteous people who turn their nose up at a person who sins.They are of the opinion that one has to be like Jesus to attend church, when in fact, the very people who Jesus made a point to spend so much time with were people who were the most unlike him. A church shouldn't be the place that a sinner avoids when they have a guilty conscious. The more imperfect a person is, they more they should feel drawn.

Self righteous, snobby, holier-than-thou Christians are the ones driving people away. How many churches are there out there who will not admit gays, divorcees, adulterers, prostitutes, strippers, drug dealers, women who have had abortions, etc...?

Every time a Christian snubs or rejects somebody for their lifestyle, their sexual preference, the sins of their past, etc..., they are snubbing somebody that Jesus would want to spend time with. They are snubbing exactly the kind of person who Jesus would invite to the table. By doing this they remove the last bit of hope and grace that person has left and is driving them away from God.

As for my reference to the Catholic Church, they do this via a committee. They call it excommunication. The Mormon church practices this as well through a council of Elders.

[Sparkly Mary]

Betty, that's one of the most awesome and true things I've read in awhile. I think you're spot on!

[KillZone]

Originally Posted by Sparkly Mary

I have a friend who was excommunicated from the LDS church for questioning their ideology. It was very sad.

I have a huge issue with denominations that excommunicate! They way overstep their bounds, IMHO, when they decide who is and is not worthy to commune with God in their presence.

My oldest daughter converted to LDS, and then proceeded to have a child out of wedlock. They didn't excommunicate her, but she's under "restrictions" from the church, and I think that's BS.

Should the LDS not excommunicate the many "splinter" groups that still practice poligamy? Imho, they should. I am blundering to attempt to explain, but I find the LDS official beliefs on marriage to be at "odds" to such an extent that they must execommunicate those splinter groups to remain true to their beliefs.

Imho another example(s) could be found that is a parallel to the above in any demomination.

[Cd.]

Originally Posted by KillZone

Should the LDS not excommunicate the many "splinter" groups that still practice poligamy? Imho, they should. I am blundering to attempt to explain, but I find the LDS official beliefs on marriage to be at "odds" to such an extent that they must execommunicate those splinter groups to remain true to their beliefs.

Imho another example(s) could be found that is a parallel to the above in any demomination.

I believe that poligamy is forbidden in the LDS. There are traditionalists who still practice this but they are underground.

I read how in many orthodox mormon communities, girls are maried young and many teenage boys are cut off from their families because they are deemed as being of no value. I will look for more information on this. Many of these young people are homeless.

Incidently, the early Catholic church did permit polygamy. Charlemagne had five wives, for example.

[Sparkly Mary]

Yes, polygamy is forbidden by LDS policy.
However, it was only done so, so that Utah would be allowed entrance into the U.S. Otherwise, it would still be "ok" by them.

And no, KillZone, they should not be "allowed" to excommunicate. Again, who is to say who is worthy to worship or commune with God? Men? I don't think so. Excommunication is detrimental to the very people who are excommunicated.
My friend questioned the teachings of the LDS church. That's all. He questioned it, and therefore questioned the elders. When he told them they didn't fully address his questions, they initiated the procedure to have him excommunicated.
He was devastated. He loved the church, but they deemed him unfit to worship with them.

When someone is excommunicated from the LDS church, their names are removed from the membership roles, and they're told that all ties to all their ancestors and progeny are broken and that they will not be with them in the afterlife.
It's so much more than "you can't come to church here". They cut off all ties with their families, and most times, the family members still in the church go along with the excommunication and that person ceases to exist to his/her family.

How in the WORLD is that Christian or holy or acceptable? That's MEN telling men they are not worthy of God. That is unforgiveable.

[No_Brakes]

Originally Posted by Sparkly Mary

Betty, that's one of the most awesome and true things I've read in awhile. I think you're spot on!

Indeed - excellent post, Betty!

[farlowishous]

Originally Posted by Cd.

I thought about it more and more and its like this. In cities of the Northeast US the Catholic Church has a lot of power and influence. In Chicago, where I grew up, you could not in the past get to any high level of anything if you were not a good standing member of the Church. Dick Daley, the mayor made sure of that.

My dad was from the west and said that the Mormon Church was really strong like that, especially in Utah, Idaho and places like that.

I think that Mormons have been grossly misunderstood through out history. Some of their doctrines may be strange to outsiders and their church is very hierarchical so there are difinate similarities.

I would add that the maker of Napoleon Dynamite is Mormon. So is the guy who sings for The Killers.

so is the woman who wrote twilight

[Old World Order]

You don't have to be Catholic to get into power in Chicago.