Dont upset the Chinese

[Dogberry]

Here is an interesting story on political censorship.

These football fans were thrown out of the stadium for waving Tibet flags when the Chinese were playing.

Now imagine it had been saying people waving the irish Tricolour during and England game, or people waving Iraq flags during a US game overseas would the same thing have happened? I say not.

During a Chinese state visit to the UK, protesters were blocked from protesting by the Police for the same reason.

China maybe a Communist dictatorship which is becoming one of the world's major polluters, it may have a terrible history of human rights abuses and it may be carrying out a brutal occuaption of a sovereign foreign country but they are big so let's not upset them.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_6106289

Waving flags sparks ejection
The Associated Press
Article Last Updated: 06/10/2007 01:39:43 AM MDT


Click photo to enlargeReal Salt Lake fans displaying Tibetan flags are confronted... (Trent Nelson/The Salt Lake Tribune)«1»SALT LAKE CITY - Fans who were kicked out of an exhibition soccer game between the Chinese national team and Real Salt Lake say it was because they stirred up a political controversy by waving the flag of Tibet.
''I was really, really shocked. I couldn't believe this was happening in this country,'' said Colin Coker, who was among the small group of fans who were taken out of Rice-Eccles Stadium on Thursday night.
The fans had been waving the flag of Tibet, the Himalayan region that has been battling China over independence for decades, during the game Thursday night. Some of the Chinese players stepped off the field early in the second half and refused to play again until the flags were put away.
The fans put away the Tibetan flags, as well as flags of Taiwan and a sign referring to China's Tiananmen Square protest in 1989, but brought them out again later in the game. Coker said he and several other fans were then kicked out of the stadium.
Real Salt Lake spokesman Trey Fitz-Gerald said the fans were kicked out for being disruptive. He said they were more focused on harassing the Chinese players than making a political statement.
''This is a case where we invited this team here, and we were their host, and we needed to be diplomatic,'' Fitz-Gerald said.

So is the west for what is right? Or shall we just pick on the small guys and leave China alone?

[oki]

I agree its double standard.
in tibet, monks are forced to insult the daili lama now. huge amounts of chinese people have moved to tibet, to never leave again, a way to make sure that tibet becomes a part of china for good.
but china is huge, is growing, is influential, and more important, owns a great deal in teh states and europe, they can do serious economic damage if they want.
therefore we will shut up and be friends.

[Evil Elmo]

this makes elmo sad

[NJ Refugee]

Now imagine it had been saying people waving the irish Tricolour during and England game, or people waving Iraq flags during a US game overseas would the same thing have happened? I say not.

You mean like the US soccer game in Mexico City where the Mexican Crowd chanted "Osama ! Osama ! Osama !" ... and nothing happened to them.

[GreyRider]

F*** China.

Check where things are made. If it says "made in China" leave it and say out loud if other people are around, "oh made in China, I won't buy this"

[Epicius]

Originally Posted by GreyRider

F*** China.

Check where things are made. If it says "made in China" leave it and say out loud if other people are around, "oh made in China, I won't buy this"

That is one empty house you're going to have.

[86Dude]

I'm not sure what's worse commie censorship, or european censorship. At least in China you won't get thrown in jail for yelling a slur at some camel jockey from Pakistan.

[Dogberry]

Originally Posted by 86Dude

I'm not sure what's worse commie censorship, or european censorship. At least in China you won't get thrown in jail for yelling a slur at some camel jockey from Pakistan.

You might want to look at the main story again Dude, it happened in the US.

[86Dude]

Originally Posted by Dogberry

You might want to look at the main story again Dude, it happened in the US.

Damn, I am officially an idiot with a big foot in his mouth. God forbid we upset some commies.

[Kaliayev]

Nothing new about this.

Remember the pro-Tibet films of the mid/late 90s? China banned them and told the studios if they made many more, they would consider banning other of their films too, even if they had nothing to do with Tibet or China. China's a big market and film companies are about profits, not morals, so they caved in.

Same with news reporting. All of News Corporations media companies (The Times, the Sun, Sky News, Fox Sports etc) are very careful to never criticize China's human rights or foreign policy in relation to Tibet, because if they do, Murdoch's licence to broadcast shows in China will be revoked, like it was with the BBC, IIRC.

[oki]

thats pretty sick policy.

[GROFF200]

I had a friend from China who told me that over there, they are told that Tibetans were enslaved by the Dalai Llama and China's occupation freed them.
I am so proud that my country wants to support that kind of government (yes, I'm being sarcastic).

[Kaliayev]

Yeah, that sounds about right.

Sure, life under the Dalai Lama's was hardly fun, but Chinese occupation and cultural genocide are not any better.

Of course, China has an international legal claim to Tibet, based on treaties between itself and the UK. But there is also an international claim to self-determination for all people, and there is certainly no moral claim to Tibet at all.

Its very much like the situation of Kosovo and Serbia, in many respects. And we know how tricky that one is.

[soylentgreen]

I think we should take the opportunity to offend evil oppressive governments like China's more often, not less often.

No one worries about offending America. And, for the most part, we don't do anything about it when they do. China needs to change.

I recall writing to my congressman concerning China's application into the WTO which the US was sponsoring. The response letter I got back said that free trade would transform China from the inside into a country more friendly to capitalism and the West. Didn't happen.

[grimrebuke]

Wow, another example of the first amendment taking a back seat to the people that free speech might offend. This is, indeed, a very bad path we have started down.

[soylentgreen]

Sombody should get sued over this. If the First Amendment protects the right to burn a US flag, then anyone and everyone should be allowed to fly a Tibet flag or any other flag they want.

[Feenix566]

I've been corresponding with a girl from China through email, after she contacted me through Match.com. She told me that she works in a mall, and everyone hates the communist party, but no one really cares because all they care about is making lots of money.

I'm gonna have to agree with the congressman who said that free trade would transform China from within. It won't happen overnight, but it's happening.

[soylentgreen]

Originally Posted by Feenix566

I've been corresponding with a girl from China through email, after she contacted me through Match.com. She told me that she works in a mall, and everyone hates the communist party, but no one really cares because all they care about is making lots of money.

I'm gonna have to agree with the congressman who said that free trade would transform China from within. It won't happen overnight, but it's happening.

But, the commies are still in control. That's a huge problem...regardless of the relative freedoms some Chinese enjoy.

[Feenix566]

Control is a relative word. If the Chinese people can go about their lives without interference from the communist party, to the point where they don't care enough to do anything about it, then the party's control must be pretty loose. Now that the Chinese people are enjoying that freedom, if the party decided to take it away, the people are more likely to fight them.

[grimrebuke]

Originally Posted by Feenix566

Control is a relative word. If the Chinese people can go about their lives without interference from the communist party, to the point where they don't care enough to do anything about it, then the party's control must be pretty loose. Now that the Chinese people are enjoying that freedom, if the party decided to take it away, the people are more likely to fight them.

And as an example, just look at how strongly people are fighting when our own government takes away our freedoms, such as the freedom of speech of waving a Tibetan flag in Salt Lake City. It is easier to threaten people when they have something for you to take away.