Would you kill your own men?

[Dogberry]

OK here is the scenario.

You are the captain of a Destroyer excorting an allied convoy. A merchant ship has been sunk and you are approaching survivors in the water.

You sonar guy tells you the sub is sitting directly under them. The Sub has sunk four ships already and you have not been able to atack because escorts are short. You fear the sub will be sending out for more U-boats to attack the convoy.

Do you plough through the survivors and attack the U-boat thus killing the men in the water, or do you stop pick up the survivors and let the sub go?

This was a real incident which really happened in the Atlantic in 1942. It was dramatised in a fim called 'The cruel Sea'.

[DirtyDuck]

I'd have to be the cruel bastard and take out the sub. Sorry guys.

[TGRR]

Take out the sub.

[pavlos]

I would save the men and forget the sub, you can always catch the sub another time, but the men once dead, have no second chances.

[86Dude]

Pick the semen up.

[soylentgreen]

Originally Posted by pavlos

I would save the men and forget the sub, you can always catch the sub another time, but the men once dead, have no second chances.

This isn't really a good solution. If you stop, then your destroyer becomes a sitting duck for the sub if it decides to attack you. If your destroyer goes down, the men will die anyway. The threat has to be neutralized first before you can do anything else.

[Dogberry]

Awful decision isnt it.

In the real life situation the Captain attacked the sub, which ultimately escaped anyway.

Needless to say he the men on his ship were, not mutinous but not far from it.

C'est la guerre.

[soylentgreen]

Originally Posted by Dogberry

Awful decision isnt it.

Indeed.

War is hell. The sub may have escaped, but the capitain made the only logical decision he could have. He needed to ensure the security of his own vessel before he could extend relief to the men.

[TGRR]

Originally Posted by pavlos

I would save the men and forget the sub, you can always catch the sub another time, but the men once dead, have no second chances.

You stop to pick them up, you get a torpedo or two up your keester.

[pavlos]

as I remember the story the sub was retreating, and the ship went after it, this is the scenario, I was refering to, obviously whilst you are or at risk of attack you must defend, yourself, but given that they weren't at risk then the captain should have stopped and picked up survivors, the lives of the men are more valid than any sub.
so you wouldn't of got a torpedo up your keester, TGRR.the captain did not want the sub to regroup with it's fleet and attack again, so to him the lives of the men were forfeit. extremely bad judgement.

[DirtyDuck]

Actually the sub was not retreating, but was under the men in the water that it had just sunk. Regardless of that, Dogberry asked what you would do. Anyone with any background in the military knows it's mission before the men, cruel to most, but that's the way it is.

The mission was to escort a allied convoy. If a sub was threatening that mission, you take out the sub. Plain and simple. I'd sacrifice 20 sailers in the water for the rest of the lives in the convoy.

[TGRR]

Originally Posted by pavlos

as I remember the story the sub was retreating, and the ship went after it, this is the scenario, I was refering to, obviously whilst you are or at risk of attack you must defend, yourself, but given that they weren't at risk then the captain should have stopped and picked up survivors, the lives of the men are more valid than any sub.
so you wouldn't of got a torpedo up your keester, TGRR.the captain did not want the sub to regroup with it's fleet and attack again, so to him the lives of the men were forfeit. extremely bad judgement.

You bring a destroyer to a dead stop, and that sub will turn right around.

Also, given German sub tactics, how do you know it's the only sub in the area?

[zipper99]

Well, the first thing is to have a nice cup of tea...

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by 86Dude

Pick the semen up.

Would they have been that bored in the water?

I'd pick the men up.

[Stone]

I'd fire on the sub - if that sub gets away it could end up killing even more people, not to mention the security risk it poses to the men in the water and the remaining ships.

[coral100cor]

Rationally he maid the right desition.

I think I myself could not do this, but that's why nobody makes me a captain...

An interesting thread, btw

[coral100cor]

My husband, that served on submarine, said that there is not enough information given for a desition.

[Dogberry]

Originally Posted by coral100cor

My husband, that served on submarine, said that there is not enough information given for a desition.

That is pretty much all the information the Captain of the destroyer had.

Dying in a sub must be a bad way to go.

[coral100cor]

Originally Posted by Dogberry

That is pretty much all the information the Captain of the destroyer had.

Dying in a sub must be a bad way to go.

You think it effects his judgment ?

He asked for details as what distance from coast, and what on coast, the temperature of the water, essesment about how much torpedos the sub still had and texnical stuff like that.

[Dogberry]

Originally Posted by coral100cor

You think it effects his judgment ?

He asked for details as what distance from coast, and what on coast, the temperature of the water, essesment about how much torpedos the sub still had and texnical stuff like that.

Coral the thread is about the descision the destroyer Captain had to make rather than the sub commander, therefore all those things are unknown variables.