Ghosts Of Abu Ghraib

[Truth Teller]

This month HBO will show the documentary Ghosts Of Abu Ghraib.

This film by Rory Kennedy [daughter of Bobby] features both torture victims at the Abu Ghraib prison [and they can be called victims because none of them were ever charged with any crime,let alone convicted of any crime] and some of the guards invovled with the torure giving their sides of the story.

For more information go to www.hbo.com ,go to documentaries ,then log in.

[cirque]

[quote=Truth Teller] [and they can be called victims because none of them were ever charged with any crime,let alone convicted of any crime] **sniff** poor 'ol victims.

Do you normally charge prisoners of war for a crime?

HBO should do a documentary on the victims taken as prisoners by terrorists and insurgients. Shouldn't be to hard to get video of a few beheadings or hundreds of pictures of men executed. Maybe even a documentary of the victims arrested and tortured and executed by the baathists during Husseins reign. Who am I fooling...we haven't seen enough pictures of Abu Ghraib. I can't wait to see more. I hope there are a few tear-jerking stories to make me feel sorry for those poor victims

[grimrebuke]

What you are suggesting Cirque is that our standards of personal conduct should be based on how Al Queda behaves. Is that really the standard by which you live your life? Do you steal because there are theives in the world? That is the argument you have presented here in defense of the indefensible.

[skytrooper]

Funny how the left always seems to side with those who want to destroy and kill Americans......

[cirque]

Originally Posted by grimrebuke

What you are suggesting Cirque is that our standards of personal conduct should be based on how Al Queda behaves. Is that really the standard by which you live your life? Do you steal because there are theives in the world? That is the argument you have presented here in defense of the indefensible.

Yes!...that's exactly what I wasn't trying to say

[GROFF200]

I saw this documentary last week. I found it quite informative myself.
What it illustrates quite clearly, I think, is that the US isn't very good at figuring out who is a terrorist and who isn't. And however you feel about innocent people being tortured, the fact is that US policy on terrorism can't possibly be effective unless there is a good way to identify who is a terrorist.

[Truth Teller]

[quote=cirque]

Originally Posted by Truth Teller

[and they can be called victims because none of them were ever charged with any crime,let alone convicted of any crime] **sniff** poor 'ol victims.

Do you normally charge prisoners of war for a crime?

All of these people interviewed were rounded up,tortured and released without being charged [let alone convicted] of any crime.

That doesn't sound like POWs to me.

I'm for doing whatever you can to save American lives,but if you torture someone who it turns out did nothing wrong at all,then are you no better than Saddamn?

John Mc Cain [hardly a liberal] has come out against torture because no good information has never come from it.

Isreal used to engage in torture,they stopped it because nothing good came out of it.

Who am I fooling...we haven't seen enough pictures of Abu Ghraib.

There are many pictures that have not been released [nor will they ever be released] because they are much more graphic then the ones that we have seen.

[Truth Teller]

One more thing:

These people were never classified as POW's,if they were they would be under the Geneva Convention which prohibits torture.

[grimrebuke]

Originally Posted by cirque

Yes!...that's exactly what I wasn't trying to say

Then maybe you should not have said it. Because your entire justification is that it was OK for us to do it because terrorists do it. Personally, I don't set my moral compass by the standards of criminals. It is a sorry state of affairs that you clearly do.

[grimrebuke]

Originally Posted by skytrooper

Funny how the left always seems to side with those who want to destroy and kill Americans......

I find it funny that these people are so demonstrably evil that it is imperative we never put them in a court and demonstrate how evil they are. There is so much clear evidence that they have committed criminal acts that the right is afraid to have the facts presented so that they can be convicted. We put criminals in jail every single day and have done so for 200 years following the rule of law. The only people who want the rule of law put aside are criminals. If these guys are guilty of something bad, then they really should be tried. If they are prisoners of war, they should be released since we aren't at war anymore.

[Truth Teller]

I'm in favor of putting all actual terrorists in prison,but don't deny any accused due process,have a public trial and if found guilty throw the book at 'em.

That's not what we have been doing.

[skytrooper]

Originally Posted by grimrebuke

I find it funny that these people are so demonstrably evil that it is imperative we never put them in a court and demonstrate how evil they are. There is so much clear evidence that they have committed criminal acts that the right is afraid to have the facts presented so that they can be convicted. We put criminals in jail every single day and have done so for 200 years following the rule of law. The only people who want the rule of law put aside are criminals. If these guys are guilty of something bad, then they really should be tried. If they are prisoners of war, they should be released since we aren't at war anymore.

The War on Terror is far from being over...just because you have raised the white flag doesnt mean true Americans have.......

Wonder why your hero Clinton didn't follow your advise in Waco TX.....but they were christian Americans not Muslim terrorists.....they deserved no trial only death........you're to damn easy to see your anti Americanism.......

[GROFF200]

Originally Posted by skytrooper

Wonder why your hero Clinton didn't follow your advise in Waco
TX.....but they were christian Americans not Muslim
terrorists.....they deserved no trial only death........you're to damn
easy to see your anti Americanism.......

You just pretty much said that the Americans at Waco didn't deserve due process. Obviously you don't believe in the legal system of this country. Therefore, who are you to call other people anti-American? You seem to be about as anti-American as they come.

[grimrebuke]

Originally Posted by skytrooper

The War on Terror is far from being over...just because you have raised the white flag doesnt mean true Americans have.......

Terror is strong fear. You can not have a war with an emotion. Terrorism is a method. You can not fight a war against a method. Terrorists are people who use a certain method towards some goal. You can not fight a war against a method and to fight a war against anyone who might use that method would mean fighting a war against mankind.
Raising the white flag was passing the PATRIOT Act. It was making the TSA and Homeland Security. I didn't give in, I went back to work and I'm not afraid. It is because I haven't given in to the fear that I can say we should stop randomly shooting into the night. It is because I'm not afraid that I can say we should try a man using the rule of law for crimes that he has committed without fear that he may escape justice. Those who gave up on American values out of fear, they raised the white flag and surrendered.

[GROFF200]

Originally Posted by grimrebuke

Those who gave up on American values out of fear, they raised
the white flag and surrendered.

Ditto that.