Why don't conservatives force their representatives to give up their socialized benefits?

[TRUE LIBERTY]

But unlike those other entities, we collectively control government, and only with it do have have any control over the others. That's the whole point.

Are you kidding! The will of the people have far more influence on changing the direction of a corporation then we do todays government. We demand change from government in todays world and they all but spit in our face and go on doing what they have been doing.

[Cd.]

Government is never good when it grows large. A large government gives the power to corporations that the left hate so much. Small government equals corporations with little power.

Its not I made it and fuck everyone else. Its I made it and I will give back to the community how I see fit. Not how the government thinks it should be with my money.

Well let me ask this, does Shit Romney give anything back to the community other than sucking up American jobs and shipping them to China or India?

I say FUCK this reliance on private charity to get anything done! Its time we start REDISTRIBUTING the wealth. Everybody pay their fair share and create a more equitable and democratic society!

[TRUE LIBERTY]

Well let me ask this, does Shit Romney give anything back to the community other than sucking up American jobs and shipping them to China or India?

I say FUCK this reliance on private charity to get anything done! Its time we start REDISTRIBUTING the wealth. Everybody pay their fair share and create a more equitable and democratic society!

Well we could argue and disagree all day on What Romney has given back. But yes I would say he has. I bet anything his charity giving is far more then Obama. I wouldnt be surprised if Romneys charity giving is more in one year then obamas combined to this date.

That is a recipe for violence. And WHO is the all knowing person who decides what amount should be redistributed. And WHO is the all knowing person to decide who gets and how much of another persons wealth. Leave people more free and we as Americans give far more then other countries. Try and force that charity and you get violence and revolution. Personally I think its time for revolution so I almost wish your plan was enacted.

[hadit]

Well we could argue and disagree all day on What Romney has given back. But yes I would say he has. I bet anything his charity giving is far more then Obama. I wouldnt be surprised if Romneys charity giving is more in one year then obamas combined to this date.

That is true. It even kicked up a minor faux scandal when it was revealed how much he gave to the Mormon church.

[hadit]

I say FUCK this reliance on private charity to get anything done! Its time we start REDISTRIBUTING the wealth. Everybody pay their fair share and create a more equitable and democratic society!

Great, you go first. I have noticed that everyone who advocates such a system thinks they will get more than they will have to give up.

[Chachma v'Oz]

Great, you go first. I have noticed that everyone who advocates such a system thinks they will get more than they will have to give up.

Everyone?

[hadit]

Everyone?

Pretty much so, yes. The ones that don't could voluntarily match their actions to their rhetoric. Very few have that kind of integrity.

[Chachma v'Oz]

Pretty much so, yes. The ones that don't could voluntarily match their actions to their rhetoric. Very few have that kind of integrity.

Then, thank you.

[hadit]

Then, thank you.

If you match action to rhetoric, my hat's off to you.

[Chachma v'Oz]

I try. But there are powers in congress who thwart my best efforts.

[hadit]

I try. But there are powers in congress who thwart my best efforts.

What's preventing you from giving of your private fortune to the needy?

[Chachma v'Oz]

Nothing, but that's not what we're talking about. We were discussing a wealth distribution system, which to me means more appropriate and responsible taxation of those in my tier and above. I've been pushing for that for some time, long before Warren Buffet caught on and expressed the obvious need.

It would affect me directly by hitting my pocketbook, but it would affect me, and all of us, indirectly by making the US stronger, healthier, more productive and more competitive in the global marketplace.

That is my goal, and I'm more than willing to pay for it and not expect those of lesser means to be similarly burdened, for that would be counter-productive.

[hadit]

Nothing, but that's not what we're talking about. We were discussing a wealth distribution system, which to me means more appropriate and responsible taxation of those in my tier and above. I've been pushing for that for some time, long before Warren Buffet caught on and expressed the obvious need.

It would affect me directly by hitting my pocketbook, but it would affect me, and all of us, indirectly by making the US stronger, healthier, more productive and more competitive in the global marketplace.

That is my goal, and I'm more than willing to pay for it and not expect those of lesser means to be similarly burdened, for that would be counter-productive.

Actually, it IS what I'm talking about. You want to redistribute wealth, start with yourself. Then, if the government does start forcibly taking from those who earned it, you won't be losing anything.

[Chachma v'Oz]

Actually, it IS what I'm talking about. You want to redistribute wealth, start with yourself. Then, if the government does start forcibly taking from those who earned it, you won't be losing anything.

No. My contribution would be minuscule, a meaningless gesture compared to what would be accomplished by repairing the tax code. Each of us is obliged as good citizens to pay no less nor more than what the law requires, so I'm pressing for the necessary change in law that will mean far more than I can do on my own. That's why I have a government - to do what I alone cannot do for the good of our country.

[hadit]

No. My contribution would be minuscule, a meaningless gesture compared to what would be accomplished by repairing the tax code. Each of us is obliged as good citizens to pay no less nor more than what the law requires, so I'm pressing for the necessary change in law that will mean far more than I can do on my own. That's why I have a government - to do what I alone cannot do for the good of our country.

Since when is integrity a meaningless gesture? Nothing you personally do will make a bit of difference in the grand scheme of things, but that shouldn't be crutch to let yourself off the hook. You can do both, you know, contribute on your own and push for the government to force everyone else to give at gunpoint.

[9ball8]

Since when is integrity a meaningless gesture? Nothing you personally do will make a bit of difference in the grand scheme of things, but that shouldn't be crutch to let yourself off the hook. You can do both, you know, contribute on your own and push for the government to force everyone else to give at gunpoint.

While we're waiting for you to come up with a non-fantasy world example of a 1st-world government that doesn't use coercion to collect taxes, we should discuss what the voters have opted for. That would be the current system of entitlements, layered on top of the basic duties of government outlined in the Constitution. Doesn't mean the voters are always right, or that they have done their homework on important bills. But that is how our system currently operates.

Because, ultimately, the deficiency is with the voters. Not the gov't., which is run by the Democrat and/or Republican party.

[Chachma v'Oz]

Our retirement expenses have been in two areas: travel, and gifts/contributions/donations. We do what we choose in both areas and comfortable with our choices. I have nothing to defend to you and your attitude about our behavior is disrespectful and offensive.

I know for a fact that people like us, and better off, can well afford to abide a more responsible tax code. I endeavor to bring that about for the betterment of all concerned. If you feel otherwise, then do what you will to effect a different course, but there's no need to suggest that those who disagree with you are thieves. There is a point where hyperbole is inappropriate and you've passed it.

[hadit]

Our retirement expenses have been in two areas: travel, and gifts/contributions/donations. We do what we choose in both areas and comfortable with our choices. I have nothing to defend to you and your attitude about our behavior is disrespectful and offensive.

I know for a fact that people like us, and better off, can well afford to abide a more responsible tax code. I endeavor to bring that about for the betterment of all concerned. If you feel otherwise, then do what you will to effect a different course, but there's no need to suggest that those who disagree with you are thieves. There is a point where hyperbole is inappropriate and you've passed it.

Look carefully before becoming incensed. I have not accused you of failing to contribute. In fact, I applauded you for matching action to rhetoric. I did note, however, that you maintained that it is proper that no one contribute more to the government than they are forced to do by law. Basically, you are living the conservative ideal while espousing the liberal one. Why is that?

[Chachma v'Oz]

Look carefully before becoming incensed. I have not accused you of failing to contribute. In fact, I applauded you for matching action to rhetoric. I did note, however, that you maintained that it is proper that no one contribute more to the government than they are forced to do by law. Basically, you are living the conservative ideal while espousing the liberal one. Why is that?

Responsible taxation may be a liberal ideal. I don't know. I do believe it is a civic ideal.

[Cd.]

That is a recipe for violence. And WHO is the all knowing person who decides what amount should be redistributed. And WHO is the all knowing person to decide who gets and how much of another persons wealth. Leave people more free and we as Americans give far more then other countries. Try and force that charity and you get violence and revolution. Personally I think its time for revolution so I almost wish your plan was enacted.

Actually, Mitt Romney has made all kinds of decissions on who gets the wealth and who does not. In fact he has fired people, exporting their jobs abroad and getting millions if not billions for doing so. If thats NOT wealth redistribution than what is?

You see, its only called class warfare when we fight back.

Violence and revolution? You mean like those old senile tea baggers carrying the signs telling us to get our government hands off their medicare? I am not scared of a few senile old bats and a hand full of right wing lunitics. They are far too outnumbered.