Quote Originally Posted by antiquity View Post
Not really true, the first recorded save happened way back in 1905 and official records were not recorded until 1969 which means closer were used but not like they were after the 60's.

Mays, Aaron and Robinson was no where near the class of hitter that Williams was as far as BA. The closest in the last half century was probably Pete Rose, Rod Carew (388 in 1977), George Brett (390 1980) or Tony Gwynn.

In my opinion Mays was overrated and only got the acclaims he did because he was the first black to play in the majors. Don't get me wrong Mays was a very good ball player but hardly the best to wander center field.
In my opinion Mays was overrated and only got the acclaims he did because he was the first black to play in the majors.
Jackie Robinson would be surprised at that news. So would others that predated Mays.

I know about the 1905 record. But please don't argue that they were used anywhere as extensively as they were until the early 1970s, or so, because you and I know that isn't true. And if it is true, then Williams faced closers, so you can't have it both ways.

I agree with your second paragraph, too. One does need to consider that the last 3 you named didn't compared with the first 3 you named when it came to hitting for power. Rob Carew's home run production is laughable.

I don't agree with your last statement. Mays was and still is the all-around greatest centerfield/rightfielder that has played the game. He (1) hit for average, (2) for power, he didn't steal many bases but he (3) ran the bases well, his defensive skills--(4) running down long fly balls, and (5) his incredible arm are what made him a superstar, and those 5 skills have been the measure of a superstar for longer than I've lived. Yaz was a superstar, but he sure wasn't Willie Mays, nor was Aaron. Nor was or is anyone.

Barry Bonds, and forget the steroids, played in a cracker-box stadium. He could afford to play a shallow center or left. Mays played for a time in the Polo Grounds (check the dimensions of it and even the park in San Fran he played in verses the one Bonds played in; the differences do matter), which meant he had a lot more ground to cover than Bonds, and Bonds surely did not have the arm Mays had--no way near. If you wanna blame Mays for playing on crappy teams, fine, but it wasn't like he could pick. Not back then. And no sane baseball historian would claim Bonds was a better all-around player than was Mays.

Those you mentioned didn't miss 2 seasons in WW2, either.

I'd take Mays first as my centerfeilder or rightfielder from anyone in history or anyone playing today.

QUESTION FOR ANYONE: You've one choice for center or right. Given the all-around skills (see the 5 things above it takes to be a real superstar) of a player, who would you pick? (If anyone says, Josh Hamilton, I may puke.)

Williams wasn't a superstar. But he was a great, great hitter, maybe the best ever. Or, maybe not, but he ain't far from the top of the list.