Do you trust yahweh?

[the incredible b]

when i look for definitions of 'believe' and 'faith' respectively, the definitions use the words to describe the other one. slightly confusing. i think 'assigning a probability' is a nice definition of 'bellieve' or 'faith'. so...thanks!

[Šñøü†ê®]

Just to follow up, if anyone is interesting in an amazing book about Yahwehism, get a copy of A Short History of the Jews by Clement Wood published in 1924. The material is maximized if you are familiar with history and the Old Testament, but either way it makes it all so crystal clear.

[trgfbv]

The lie becomes reality to those who need to believe. Haven't you seen Miracle on 42nd Street?

It is intellectually dishonest, or at least cowardly, for an agnostic to leave open the possibility that some kind of god exists, even if such an entity is completely detached from human experience.

The agnostic is a person who cannot make up his mind, when he emphatically should.

An agnostic is someone who expresses doubt. You cannot express doubt and retain belief at the same time.

A person who describes himself as an agnostic is an atheist who gutlessly denies that he merits the label.

An don't get me started on the fools who describe themselves as "not religious but spiritual."

That means that the person holds alternative lunatic delusional supernatural beliefs.

I respect them less than believers. They are nut bags of another flavor.

[Charles]

An agnostic is someone who expresses doubt. You cannot express doubt and retain belief at the same time.

A person who describes himself as an agnostic is an atheist who gutlessly denies that he merits the label.

An don't get me started on the fools who describe themselves as "not religious but spiritual."

That means that the person holds alternative lunatic delusional supernatural beliefs.

I respect them less than believers. They are nut bags of another flavor.

Are there any hard, no doubt, differences between atheists and agnostics? Seems the differences are fuzzy or under interpretation, or whatever term someone feels comfortable with. "Atheist" doesn't necessarily mean believing there is no god - retaining belief isn't a requirement. It simply means "not theistic" or doesn't believe in god. Not sure what agnostic means.

[trgfbv]

Are there any hard, no doubt, differences between atheists and agnostics? Seems the differences are fuzzy or under interpretation, or whatever term someone feels comfortable with. "Atheist" doesn't necessarily mean believing there is no god - retaining belief isn't a requirement. It simply means "not theistic" or doesn't believe in god. Not sure what agnostic means.

Atheism means without belief in gods. Everyone is atheistic toward any number of gods.
Ask an Abraham based religious person if they believe in Thor, Zeus. Odin etc.
They will say no. They are atheistic toward all previous gods. Atheists just take it one god further.

[Šñøü†ê®]

An don't get me started on the fools who describe themselves as "not religious but spiritual."

That means that the person holds alternative lunatic delusional supernatural beliefs.

I define the laws of life (the pathways of communication, laws of attraction, opportunity, etc.) as spiritual so I strongly disagree. What one visualizes and how well one visualizes it is generally what real prayer is and often what one life's becomes. It is like programming your own computer, but the is an "internet" (universal mind) that ties everything together.

[Charles]

Atheism means without belief in gods. Everyone is atheistic toward any number of gods.
Ask an Abraham based religious person if they believe in Thor, Zeus. Odin etc.
They will say no. They are atheistic toward all previous gods. Atheists just take it one god further.

Right, but what about agnostics? That's what I asked about, agnostics and the difference between them and atheists.

[Charles]

I define the laws of life (the pathways of communication, laws of attraction, opportunity, etc.) as spiritual so I strongly disagree. What one visualizes and how well one visualizes it is generally what real prayer is and often what one life's becomes. It is like programming your own computer, but the is an "internet" (universal mind) that ties everything together.

Not sure I understand what your wrote? For example, How is a "pathway of communication" a "law of life"? How is a "opportunity" a "law of life"?

What one visualizes and how well one visualizes it is generally what real prayer is and often what one life's becomes.

All your base are belong to us.

[the incredible b]

All your base are belong to us.

i literally laughed out loud. and im in the train, so it was slightly embarrassing.

[Šñøü†ê®]

Not sure I understand what your wrote? For example, How is a "pathway of communication" a "law of life"? How is a "opportunity" a "law of life"?

I guess you would have had to be there.

All your base are belong to us.

I don't watch Japanese sci fi, so I have no idea what that alludes to.

[josephdphillips]

Are there any hard, no doubt, differences between atheists and agnostics? Seems the differences are fuzzy or under interpretation, or whatever term someone feels comfortable with. "Atheist" doesn't necessarily mean believing there is no god - retaining belief isn't a requirement. It simply means "not theistic" or doesn't believe in god. Not sure what agnostic means.

There's agnosticism, atheism and antitheism. They're not the same.

As a previous poster stated, an agnostic can't make up his mind.

An atheist and antitheist are almost the same. The former rejects belief without evidence. The latter has all the evidence he needs.

If humanity makes any progress, antitheism will win out in the end. As Sam Harris says, it's time to call a spade a spade.

[josephdphillips]

What happens if you decouple "worthy of worship" and god? Does a god necessarily have to be worthy of worship?

Yes.

If not, then there can exist a god who can be omnipotent and still be a jerk. If so, then (based on our human definitions or acceptance of good and evil), then there is no god (because a "good" god wouldn't have permitted the Holocaust for example.)

Exactly. Belief in a detached, indifferent and ultimately irrelevant god is mental masturbation (as is all cosmology).

Likewise the belief in an interested but malevolent god (e.g. the god of Abraham, Allah, etc.). It is far more likely we create such deities as incarnates of our own dark impulses and self-loathing.

[Šñøü†ê®]

Good points joseph. I know it is tough, but it was important to refocus on the IDENTITY ISSUE here with the Yahweh deity. We are not talking about the generally UNKNOWN dimensions of the universe. The documentation regarding Yahweh makes it crystal clear that Yahweh was a tribal deity. To attribute ANYTHING to this tribal deity means the believer is superstitious and or brainwashed to some degree. This should not be confused with the creative forces that act in dimensions beyond what the majority of humanoids can comprehend.

[josephdphillips]

Good points joseph. I know it is tough, but it was important to refocus on the IDENTITY ISSUE here with the Yahweh deity. We are not talking about the generally UNKNOWN dimensions of the universe. The documentation regarding Yahweh makes it crystal clear that Yahweh was a tribal deity. To attribute ANYTHING to this tribal deity means the believer is superstitious and or brainwashed to some degree. This should not be confused with the creative forces that act in dimensions beyond what the majority of humanoids can comprehend.

A belief in "creative dimensions" is just as fatuous and no less romantic.

Ignorant, egocentric and fearful people, many of them "scientists," still insist on a point of origin, still insist on grasping ultimate reality, as if there is one.

I read that there is now demonstrable, physical evidence of universes other than our own. Hurray!!

Yeesh. I'd be a lot happier if they stopped looking for the #$@ Boson-Higgs and fixed the @#$@ freeways.

[Cyclone Ranger]

Do you think yahweh is GOD, as in being a creative force in the universe, or just some crazy ass middle eastern deity?

Yahweh is King of the Universe and Lord of Righteousness. It matters not at all whether you call him Lord our God, Yahweh, or Allah.

[josephdphillips]

Arthur....King of the Britons...

http://monty-python-and-the-holy-gra.../scene_07.html

[queenlillian1962]

I have a problem "believing" but otherwise, most of what you wrote seems possible. Why is it necessary to "believe"? Why not say "It's possible."?

I don't "believe" in anything. I either know something or I assign a probability. "Believing" is unnecessary and it requires faith. Faith is unnecessary.

Actually for me there is no question, I'm 100% positive there is a creator like you are sure the sun will rise tomorrow. Maybe that was an inaccurate way to word what I personally think. What I never understand is people who can't even consider the possibility.

[josephdphillips]

Actually for me there is no question, I'm 100% positive there is a creator like you are sure the sun will rise tomorrow. Maybe that was an inaccurate way to word what I personally think. What I never understand is people who can't even consider the possibility.

Because the possibility of creation itself is irrational and fatuous.

Once you understand your craving to believe, the craving and belief stops.

There is no point of origin because a point of origin isn't necessary.

[the incredible b]

Actually for me there is no question, I'm 100% positive there is a creator like you are sure the sun will rise tomorrow. Maybe that was an inaccurate way to word what I personally think. What I never understand is people who can't even consider the possibility.

why would you think they cant consider it? they just reject it after they do. maybe you have a problem considering that possibility.

[Cyclone Ranger]

Whether you're a Judeo-Christian or a scientific rationalist (or both), the universe does have a point of origin. It's not eternal and uncreated.