Dec 12/Mayan Lunacy

[Chachma v'Oz]

1) I don't know the answer to that question. If the problem is nuclear then I'll hold out longer than those exposed.

I'm heavily armed and have the capacity to load new rounds.

They could smoke me out possibly, but that is dependent upon the idea that they would know my location.

2) I live in a rural area. Satellite imagery is only taken every other year so the county tax collector would never know. I could easily conceal the initial hole on any of my 40 acres. You make a good point but I've already taken this under consideration.

3) Yes, I agree. The roving gangs won't be starving. You make a good point, but the bunker is just a temporary refuge. I'd have plenty of time to network with neighbors and form a defense. In my estimation it would take less than 3 weeks for the horde to reach the countryside and start plundering it depending on the type of disaster.

So not only do you need a shelter like a bunker but one must also be ready to run so it's important to have a bug out plan and bury your supplies along retreat routes. Spider holes for shelter are also a consideration. Believe me, I spent a lot of time on survival skills and this kind of stuff.

OK. Dont' forget adequate water. You can't depend on what you find once you run out, and you can't do without.

[86Dùde]

I have a spring so that shouldn't be an issue.

[Chachma v'Oz]

Until it's befouled.

Your setup may be better than I imagine, but it still seems like a temporary respite. I honestly don't think it's possible to stay hidden long enough to survive when essentially everyone who didn't plan as well is your enemy.

[Malcolm Wright]

There is no survival. No matter how much or well you prepare, there will be too many of the others who have the time and the resources to take it away from you, and take you and yours out in the process. You may hold out a little longer than some, but you cannot survive. Only the animals will.

This isn't particular to the Mayan calendar. It's about any global catastrophe. You may as well get a noose ready to throw over a rafter and save yourself a lot of grief once the beginning of the end appears.

I disagree. In any chaotic situation there is the factor of 'chance' on top of preparation.
If you have a plan, that puts you ahead of probably 75% of the population. If it is a good plan, you're ahead of 95%. Then there is chance.

I'm not particularly concerned with the end of the Mayan calendar, although there may indeed be something to it. Who knows?

But civilization falling scenarios will leave survivors, and it won't necessarily be the strongest or those with the most resources. There will be a strong 'random' element to it.

M.

[Malcolm Wright]

I've never made a winter solstice end of the world claim. Something really bad is coming though and it has nothing to do with a bunch of despicable savages from Mexico who enjoyed yanking the hearts out their victims. Exterminating the Mayan vermin was the best thing Spain ever did.

The Mayans were interesting. Amongst other things, they explained the need to sacrifice humans to the gods as a way of postponing the end of the world.
Regardless of what they actually meant by that, there is a real foundation to that logic: the end of the world as we know it most likely to occur due to overpopulation or the side-effects thereof. I'm not saying the best solution is ritual human sacrifice, but at least they were doing SOMETHING about a real problem that most of us seem to be ignoring.

Also, the 'Mayan' calendar is not actually Mayan. They inherited its system from a much older culture. We know it dates back as far as the Olmecs, but may be much older still.

Despicable savagery is in the eye of the beholder. The Mayans were what they were. The Spaniards were what they were. If there is an argument for one of those two groups being despicable savages, then that argument applies equally well to the other group.

M.

[86Dùde]

Until it's befouled.

Your setup may be better than I imagine, but it still seems like a temporary respite. I honestly don't think it's possible to stay hidden long enough to survive when essentially everyone who didn't plan as well is your enemy.

My setup is just an idea at this point, but I'm working on it. I don't plan on spending more than a few weeks in a bunker but it also has other uses.

[Malcolm Wright]

I have a spring so that shouldn't be an issue.

Those people with land, a source of water, and the ability to defend both, hold the high ground.

[86Dùde]

Those people with land, a source of water, and the ability to defend both, hold the high ground.

Yep, I pretty much have all I need. Right now I need time to implement meh plan. This will require a backhoe or incredible suffering by yours truly digging an 8 by 12 by 4 foot hole in the ground in searing heat.

[Malcolm Wright]

Yep, I pretty much have all I need. Right now I need time to implement meh plan. This will require a backhoe or incredible suffering by yours truly digging an 8 by 12 by 4 foot hole in the ground in searing heat.

A little bit everyday is the way.

[86Dùde]

A little bit everyday is the way.

Yeah, that is what I was thinking. Man that is a lot of work though. I don't know how the old timers did it.

[86Dùde]

The Mayans were interesting. Amongst other things, they explained the need to sacrifice humans to the gods as a way of postponing the end of the world.
Regardless of what they actually meant by that, there is a real foundation to that logic: the end of the world as we know it most likely to occur due to overpopulation or the side-effects thereof. I'm not saying the best solution is ritual human sacrifice, but at least they were doing SOMETHING about a real problem that most of us seem to be ignoring.

Also, the 'Mayan' calendar is not actually Mayan. They inherited its system from a much older culture. We know it dates back as far as the Olmecs, but may be much older still.

Despicable savagery is in the eye of the beholder. The Mayans were what they were. The Spaniards were what they were. If there is an argument for one of those two groups being despicable savages, then that argument applies equally well to the other group.

M.

Yes, what you said is all true. I just can't get over the human sacrifice element.

[Malcolm Wright]

Yeah, that is what I was thinking. Man that is a lot of work though. I don't know how the old timers did it.

It sure is. I got bogged down in the desert a few years back, in Australia. Had to bury my pare tire to winch off of. After three attempts, I realized the hole would have to be about 4 feet deep, and maybe the same in diameter, but man it was hard work. I melted. There is a puddle of Malcolm out there that I'll never get back!

I was so beat that I couldn't think clearly and actually celebrated once the troopy was out of the sand's grip - only to realize I then had to dig the tire out again and fill in the hole!

It is good honest work though and the body sings afterwards (in a painful way).

[Malcolm Wright]

Yes, what you said is all true. I just can't get over the human sacrifice element.

Yes, its an abomination to me too.
But so were the acts of the Spaniards.
When they arrived at Cholula, Cortez and his men were welcomed as Gods. They believed Cortez to be the Plumed Serpent, returning from the ocean. The people celebrated around them. They took advantage of this reception to quietly close off the exits of the celebration venue and slaughter the celebrants.

:/

[Chachma v'Oz]

Yep, I pretty much have all I need. Right now I need time to implement meh plan. This will require a backhoe or incredible suffering by yours truly digging an 8 by 12 by 4 foot hole in the ground in searing heat.

Now you've made me think of the movie "Take Shelter". Did you see it?

[Ratbag]

It sure is. I got bogged down in the desert a few years back, in Australia. Had to bury my pare tire to winch off of. After three attempts, I realized the hole would have to be about 4 feet deep, and maybe the same in diameter, but man it was hard work. I melted. There is a puddle of Malcolm out there that I'll never get back!

I was so beat that I couldn't think clearly and actually celebrated once the troopy was out of the sand's grip - only to realize I then had to dig the tire out again and fill in the hole!

It is good honest work though and the body sings afterwards (in a painful way).

Chuckles and is sure I passed that puddle of Malcolm a couple of weeks back and understands fully the requirements of survival with no outside source and is glad her kids are very well trained and have good chances of taking care of at least their own needs with the onset of overpopulation. My main goal in life is to teach my kids to provide for all their needs without outside assistance if necessary, and they're already at 7 and 8 years of age quite capable in that regard (and look outwardly quite normal I might add... not little wild haired savage things)

[86Dùde]

Now you've made me think of the movie "Take Shelter". Did you see it?

Actually I did. I forgot about that. That was a good film. It wasn't my inspiration though but the concept of putting a storage container into the ground is one of my 3 basic designs. Very popular actually. The fact that it was filmed in Oklahoma, which is just minutes away, makes it ring home.

[Chachma v'Oz]

My point was that all the preparation in the world didn't help him in the end.

[Malcolm Wright]

Chuckles and is sure I passed that puddle of Malcolm a couple of weeks back and understands fully the requirements of survival with no outside source and is glad her kids are very well trained and have good chances of taking care of at least their own needs with the onset of overpopulation. My main goal in life is to teach my kids to provide for all their needs without outside assistance if necessary, and they're already at 7 and 8 years of age quite capable in that regard (and look outwardly quite normal I might add... not little wild haired savage things)

That puddle is almost exactly half way along the French Line, in the Simpson desert. Please tell it I miss it if you see it.

[Ratbag]

I'll be sure and do that, I'll bet it misses you too!

[KillZone]

I wonder where the NFL has built their underground football fields. In America, El Shaddai ("God Almighty") will "trump" 21 December 2012.

As the date approaches, I plan to start killing people. I hope to "outdo" Harold Fredrick Shipman (14 January 1946 – 13 January 2004). I think I should go ahead and get started.

"Harold Frederick Shipman (of the U. K.) is the most prolific serial killer in modern recorded history with 250+ murders being positively ascribed to him. Another suspicious deaths may be linked to Shipman."

I wish I HAD done something... there's just GOT to be a way to make a fortune out of it and I'm kicking myself it doesn't spring to mind, and yes... even if we were beleivers what exactly would you be doing that would change anythign at all? especially considering you should be living life like you could be hit by a bus tomorrow anyway...

My problem is I am just too dumb to write a “legal scam”—which is what these books about 21 December 2012 are—so even had I thought of it, I’d not have been able to profit from it. Think of it—a legal scam that has sold millions of books. God bless mass hysteria, the horrible stories the Internet has brought us that make people fear the unknown (21 Dec would be impossible w/o Al Gore's internet), and the First Amendment.

It reminds me of those idiotic books like Who Moved My Cheese, a book that spurned a literal cottage industry of similarly worthless and silly books (I think "Sniff" and "Scurry" were frauds, but that is jmho).

IFF:
i was going to make a will but then i realized why bother as there would be no one left to be an executor of it.

Touché. I'll go shread our Wills asap.

86Dude:
I’m in the preliminary stages of building a bunker/fallout shelter/bug in box. Does this count?

Sure it counts, but "preliminary stages"? Time runs short, my friend.

Freedom&Liberty:
Kill them and take their shit. Survival has no rules.

That reminds me of what my father-in-law (deceased) told his son,

"Never, ever fight, Greg. Avoid them. Run. Get out of the situation. There is no shame in even being called a coward, for it could be worse. But if you cannot get away from a fight and you must fight; if there is no way to avoid it; if you know it is inevitable? There is only one rule: Win. If you have to use a hammer, a pick ax, a gun, run over some one with a bull dozer, it doesn't matter. Win. Whatever it takes, win. It beats the hell out of getting losing your life."

I'd never thought about it but my father-in-law had a point.

I guess DA will shut down on Dec 21.