Settlers filmed shooting at Palestinian protesters‎

[jwreck]

On another forum I post on NO mideast threads are allowed except in a specific mideast forum that's not moderated at all, because every ME thread turns into a poo-flinging fest.

[Guido]

Until the Palestinians will chose non-violence and accept Israel as a Jewish state on 1967 borders, they will get absolutely nothing and will deserve absolutely nothing.

Maybe next time the peace-loving liberal settlers invade their village and set fire to their fields and start shooting at them, the Palestinians will hopefully choose non-violence and accept being shot without provocatively throwing terrorist rocks at the invaders.

Here's what serious folks have to say:


It’s time for an international force in the West Bank



Since the IDF cannot and will not protect Palestinians from settlers, it’s time to turn over the West Bank to an international force.

An incident in the village of Asira Al-Qibiliya drew media attention on Saturday, since it was captured on B’Tselem’s cameras. A group of Yitzhar settlers tried to raid the village, set its fields on fire, and two of its people opened live fire against the villagers who gathered to defend themselves, severely wounding one of them. IDF gunmen present at the scene did nothing. The IDF Spokesman sputtered something (Hebrew) about “on the face of it, the video does not represent the entire incident.” Absent from the IDF Spokesman was any reference to the arrest of settlers trying to invade a Palestinian village and opening live fire.

The settlers, blindsided by the fact the incident was actually covered, came up with several arguments. They claimed (a) that the fire was started by the Palestinians; that (b) observant Jews won’t light fires on Saturday, and that (c) the raiders were in fact the settlement’s squad of guardsmen.

Dismantling these lies is important in order to expose the settlers’ culture of deceit. As Haggai wrote, an earlier video shows the settlers coming down the hill, and at the time there is no sign of fire. The main video shows the fire very near to the village, and a Palestinian fire-fighting truck. We are, then, asked to believe that as the settlers were coming down, some Palestinians crossed their way and lit a fire behind them. A likely story. If you buy it, I have a seaside house in Jerusalem going for very reasonable rates.

The second lie is easily disproved. Raids by Yitzhar settlers are rather common, particularly on Saturday, as the holy flock is infused with the “extra soul” of the holy day and dies of boredom. Just a year ago, the settlers of Yitzhar were documented (Hebrew) raiding Asira Al-Qibiliya, stoning the residents, and setting a vehicle on fire. Among the pogromchiks was also Yitzhak Shapira, the head of the Yitzhar yeshiva, who is a co-author of the infamous “Torat Ha’Melekh” tract, the manual on gentile-slaying. The settlers said at the time that you can break the sanctity of the Sabbath if you are in conflict with non-Jews. How… convenient. They probably did not think that someone will remember this excuse a year later, and that it’ll come back to bite their latest lie.

As for the third lie: I served in the territories, and I’ve never seen a rapid deployment squad with only three armed men, one of them brandishing a pistol. And just what is the squad doing outside the settlement? Going AWOL?

The settlers, however, are not the issue. The settlers of Yitzhar are a well-known raging bull. The issue is the IDF. Its presence in the West Bank is allowed only because it is an occupying power. As such it is obligated to defend the occupied population. It never managed that, and never tried too hard. Not only does it support the transferring of Jewish population to occupied territories, which is a war crime, and not only does it protect this population (yet another war crime), it consistently allows the settlers to harm persons which according to the laws of war are under its protection. And the laws of war, again, are the only pretext for the IDF’s presence in the West Bank.

And it’s not just Yitzhar: settlers attacked Palestinians yesterday near the outpost Mitzpeh Yair, and one of them stole and smashed a video camera held by a B’Tselem investigator and threatened him (Hebrew). IDF gunmen present, again, did not intervene. This has been going on for many years now. In late 2011, after settlers attacked an IDF base, IDF Spokesman Brig. Gen. Yoav Mordechai told military reporter Carmela Menashe – who asked him how would an IDF colonel respond to a stone attack coming not from a member of the Chosen People but from a Palestinian – thus: ” I assume, Carmela, that you wouldn’t expect the brigade commander to open fire on a Jew standing in front of him, I am certain you didn’t mean that.”

Which says all there is to say. The IDF can’t, by which I mean won’t, do its duty and protect the Palestinians from the invaders it brought into their midst. Its generals don’t even understand it’s their duty, their first duty, and that protecting the settlements comes last if at all. Given that, and given that the peace process is an unfunny joke, we should campaign for the replacement of the IDF in the West Bank by an international peace keeping force. The IDF has had 45 years to prove it is capable of doing its duty as an occupying force; it failed. It’s time to bring forward a new military force, which can defend the indigenous population from the predatory one.



http://972mag.com/its-time-for-an-in...st-bank/46461/

[9ball8]

International force... comprised of who, exactly? Ruskies & Chicoms, who support the Palestinians in this chess game? How 'bout the 'Mericuns and other NATO heroes, who mostly support Israel? How about a mix of observers and troops from both sides? That's like adding a third wheel to a bicycle. It won't work for palestinians any better than 6 decades of asymmetrical, armed resistance against the Israeli state.

Expand on the passive resistance idea, instead. Tech geeks visit the palestinian settlements, setting up cameras in hotspots, training palestinians on how to maintain and change locations. Then apply the passive discipline and record events. One dead person won't make a dent, but multiple incidents that hit the news will have a lasting impact. The peace movement within Israel is waiting for the passive movement to take hold within palestine, so they can have an ally on their side. But that will take multiple, shocking blows. Not to Israel's military; we know that institution is nearly bulletproof. The blows must be to the psyche of Israel's hardliners. They won't budge until they see video proof -in multiple cases- that there are cold blooded killers among a few jewish settlers. They have to see proof hitting the newspapers more than once or twice in a year's time, that more settlers condone "ethnic cleansing" behavior than they can politically handle. There is only one way for palestinians to prove this. They must provide hard evidence that settlers, soldiers or others with a vested interest in moving them out of an area, are attacking them without provocation. Throw even one rock, that is provocation. All palestinians should have learned that lesson long ago.

[Guido]

International force... comprised of who, exactly? Ruskies & Chicoms, who support the Palestinians in this chess game? How 'bout the 'Mericuns and other NATO heroes, who mostly support Israel? How about a mix of observers and troops from both sides? That's like adding a third wheel to a bicycle. It won't work for palestinians any better than 6 decades of asymmetrical, armed resistance against the Israeli state.

Expand on the passive resistance idea, instead. Tech geeks visit the palestinian settlements, setting up cameras in hotspots, training palestinians on how to maintain and change locations. Then apply the passive discipline and record events. One dead person won't make a dent, but multiple incidents that hit the news will have a lasting impact. The peace movement within Israel is waiting for the passive movement to take hold within palestine, so they can have an ally on their side. But that will take multiple, shocking blows. Not to Israel's military; we know that institution is nearly bulletproof. The blows must be to the psyche of Israel's hardliners. They won't budge until they see video proof -in multiple cases- that there are cold blooded killers among a few jewish settlers. They have to see proof hitting the newspapers more than once or twice in a year's time, that more settlers condone "ethnic cleansing" behavior than they can politically handle. There is only one way for palestinians to prove this. They must provide hard evidence that settlers, soldiers or others with a vested interest in moving them out of an area, are attacking them without provocation. Throw even one rock, that is provocation. All palestinians should have learned that lesson long ago.

What you describe is already being done, by B'Tselem, among other organizations. Here's their documentation of this incident.

On Saturday, 19.5.2012, around four thirty in the afternoon, a large group of settlers descended on the eastern outskirts of the village 'Asira al-Qibliya, from the settlement Yitzhar. B'Tselem volunteer photographers filmed the events from two angles. The video shows the settlers, some of whom were masked and armed, throwing stones at Palestinian homes, and fires beginning to burn... One of the masked settlers was armed with a "Tavor" rifle which is only used by infantry soldiers, raising the suspicion that he is a soldier on leave.

Palestinian youths from the village soon arrived and threw stones at the settlers... Around 5pm, a group of three settlers are seen standing with a soldier in front of the Palestinian youths, while all around there is mutual stone throwing. Two of the settlers seen were armed with M4 rifles, and one was armed with a pistol. One of the settlers is wearing what looks like a police cap. The video footage shows the settlers aiming their weapons at the Palestinians and firing.

The firing injured village resident, Fathi 'Asayira, 24, in the head.

http://www.btselem.org/press_release...ira_al_qibliya

B'Tselem wrote urgently to the Judea and Samaria Police requesting that those involved in the violent attack are arrested and prosecuted. Additionally, B'Tselem wrote to the Military Police Investigative Unit (MPIU) requesting that a military police investigation is opened at once into the suspicion that the soldiers did not adhere to their obligation to protect Palestinians from settler violence, and that one of the attackers was a soldier on leave. B'Tselem additionally requested that the soldiers are instructed to cooperate with the police investigation and identify the suspect in the shooting.

B'Tselem's Youtube channel is frequently updated:

http://www.youtube.com/user/btselem

[Malcolm Wright]

It's a war situation, they look at the Palestinians who are throwing stones as enemies, obviously, and some soldiers really couldn't care less if the settlers kill them, just like those Palestinians wouldn't give a fuck if a Hamas terrorists shot those guys to death, it's a war and both sides absolutely hate each other for generations. The difference is that the Israeli gov't/people want to end this conflict and have a 2 state solution where there's security and understanding from both sides, while the Palestinians and Iran insist on turning Israel into another Arab Muslim state, either soon or in the long run, so that's what it comes down to in the end of the day, and we can always pick on assholes from both sides, but that won't solve the problem.

The difference is that the IDF are supposed to be soldiers, not terrorists.

M

[Cyclone Ranger]

Yes, I remember that.

Ah, yes. St. Pancake.

[Cyclone Ranger]

The difference is that the IDF are supposed to be soldiers, not terrorists.

The settlers aren't soldiers.

[86Dùde]

Poor little Israel, the most hated country on earth next to the piece of shit United States.

[GanjaFreebird]

The difference is that the IDF are supposed to be soldiers, not terrorists.

M

They are soldiers, but it's not their job to defend the enemy side. They are there to defend people with Israeli citizenship, not enemies of Israel. Does the Palestinian Authority police defend the settlers or ANY Israelis when they are being attacked by Palestinians?

[GanjaFreebird]

Maybe next time the peace-loving liberal settlers invade their village and set fire to their fields and start shooting at them, the Palestinians will hopefully choose non-violence and accept being shot without provocatively throwing terrorist rocks at the invaders.

Hey, if you want the settlers out, maybe it's time to recognize the Jewish state inside the 1967 borders and agree to a 2-state solution, don't you think?

[GanjaFreebird]

Poor little Israel, the most hated country on earth next to the piece of shit United States.

Too bad not every country can be as wonderful, nice and loving as Iran, Saudi Arabia and Syria

[Guido]

Hey, if you want the settlers out, maybe it's time to recognize the Jewish state inside the 1967 borders and agree to a 2-state solution, don't you think?

No, I think you're a fucking moron. The settlers don't fucking want a "Jewish state inside the 1967 borders" -- THAT'S WHY THEY'RE SETTLING OUTSIDE THE 1967 BORDERS, YOU BRAINLESS DROOLING RETARD.

[GanjaFreebird]

No, I think you're a fucking moron. The settlers don't fucking want a "Jewish state inside the 1967 borders" -- THAT'S WHY THEY'RE SETTLING OUTSIDE THE 1967 BORDERS, YOU BRAINLESS DROOLING RETARD.

No, YOU are a fuckin' moron, I wasn't talking about what the settlers want, who GIVES a fuck about what they "want", that's the point, if the Palestinians cared about having their owns state that's free of Jewish settlers, they could easily make a deal with the Israeli gov't where they give up on refugees return completely and accept pre-1967 Israel as a Jewish state, and the Israeli gov't would have to force most settlers to go back inside the green line, regardless of what any individuals "want", so that there would be a 2-state solution based on approximately 1967 borders.

[Cyclone Ranger]

Poor little Israel, the most hated country on earth next to the piece of shit United States.

People are always jealous of greatness, like the US and Israel

[Šñøü†ê®]

People are always jealous of greatness, like the US and Israel

Question for the zionist nutters: As the zionist regime expands in population, how far do you think the borders should go assuming the zionists have inflicted a final solution on the natives...

[GanjaFreebird]

Question for the zionist nutters: As the zionist regime expands in population, how far do you think the borders should

Approximately 1967 borders, as long as the Palestinians give up on terrorism and their desire to destroy the Jewish state.

assuming the zionists have inflicted a final solution on the natives...

What "final solution"?

[Guido]

People are always jealous of greatness, like the US and Israel

Jealousy is becoming endemic, but that is just another symptom (along with rampant militarism, contempt for the rule of law, escalating racism, isolation, denial of civil and human rights of millions of people based on ethnic criteria, etc.) of greatness.

Israel has been ranked in the top four countries that most negatively influence the word, according to a global public opinion poll conducted by the BBC.

The poll, which surveyed citizens from 22 countries around the world, places Iran in first place, with 55 percent of those surveyed rating it as a negative country. Pakistan ranked second with 51 percent, and in joint third place were Israel and North Korea, with 50 percent of respondents negatively evaluating both countries.

The broad international survey was an initiative of the BBC World Service, and carried out by GlobeScan, in collaboration with the the Center for International and Security Studies at the University of Maryland – Program on International Policy Attitudes. Over 24,000 people from 22 countries took part in the poll, which was conducted from December 2011 to February 2012.

The survey’s findings on global attitudes toward Israel are worrying indeed. Last year’s survey already that attitudes toward Israel were negative, but the situation has become more serious this year: Some 47 percent of participants in the 2011 survey had negative views of Israel’s influence on the world, but this year the number has gone up to 50 percent.

Where do the negative evaluations of Israel come from? Some 45 percent of participants said that Israeli government policy causes them to see Israel in a negative light, and 27 percent said their negative evaluation stemmed from the state’s treatment of its own people. In contrast, 29 percent of those who said they had a positive view of Israel said it was because of their sympathy with Judaism, while a further 26 percent said it was because of Israel’s foreign policy.

Only 21 percent of those polled defined their views of Israel as favorable, and in only three states - the U.S., Nigeria and Kenya – did a majority of respondents say they had a positive view of Israel. Some 50 percent of Americans that took part in the poll said they had a favorable view of Israel, an increase of 7 percent on the previous year.

35 percent of American participants said that they had a negative view of Israel, a decrease of 6 percent on 2011. Those who carried out the survey said that Israel’s ranking in American public opinion is the most stable since the poll was first conducted in 2005.

In Nigeria, 54 percent said they had a positive view of Israel – an increase of 23 percent on last year’s survey, and in Kenya 45 percent held positive views – an increase of 16 percent on 2011.

Israel’s standing in Europe, on the other hand, has taken a turn for the worse. Some 74 percent of Spanish respondents (an increase of 8 percent from last year), 56 percent of French respondents (an increase of 9 percent), 69 percent of Germans and 68 percent of Britons are convinced that Israel has a negative global influence. According to the poll, public opinion of Israel in western countries in general is tough. 65 percent of Australians and 59 percent of Canadians who were polled have a negative view of Israel – a 7 percent increase on last year’s survey in both countries.

Public opinion of Israel in emerging economies is also problematic, according to the poll. 45 percent of Chinese participants, 58 percent of Brazilians and 29 percent of Indians have negative views of Israel, and the number of Israel sympathizers in these countries is markedly low. The survey also found that in Russia, which last year stood out as a country where public opinion of Israel was positive, only 25 percent of Russian participants had positive views of Israel this year, compared to 26 percent who see Israel in a negative light.

As expected, public opinion of Israel in the Muslim world is the harshest of all. 85 percent of participants think that Israel has a negative influence on the world, 7 percent more than last year. Out of the 22 countries surveyed, Egypt has the most negative view of Israel. In addition, 50 percent of Pakistanis are hostile to Israel, with 9 percent sympathetic toward it. Meanwhile, 61 percent of Indonesians are hostile to Israel, compared to 8 percent who support it.

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/diploma...uence-1.430895

[Guido]

More evidence of greatness in Tel Aviv, one of the world's most liberal cities per Teller. No wonder the world is so jealous.

At a demonstration in south Tel Aviv demanding the immediate expulsion of all non-Jewish African asylum-seekers, a lone Israeli woman who does not agree with the rest of the crowd is shouted down with ferocity and told that she deserves to be raped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=gOomBSTTzrU#!

[86Dùde]

People are always jealous of greatness, like the US and Israel

You spineless old bastard. Moral people don't measure greatness on the ability to wage war and own the world. Jealous of our freedumb are they George Bush? No fool like an old fool.

[86Dùde]

Approximately 1967 borders, as long as the Palestinians give up on terrorism and their desire to destroy the Jewish state.



What "final solution"?

The final solution is that you go back to IZRAelz and play your guitar thereby making everyone commit suicide. Freebird should do the trick.