Fiat currencies are a WMD

[86Dùde]

Uh, huh. Good job George Jefferson.

[Malcolm Wright]

I don't hold out much hope for global cooperation. Too many around the world are nationalistic and too ideologically partisan to cooperate. To them, cooperation is defeat and they will fight tooth and nail to prevent fusion of national interests, or derail it should we appear to be making headway in that direction.

Then we're doomed, us and the other myriad life forms that depend upon us learning to live in balance.
I think I might hold a little more hope than you do - not because that cooperation is any more likely, but because it is so important that we attempt it. Attempts only achieve their highest potential when backed with hope and faith.

I foresee a continuation of blocs, like NATO, OPEC, SEATO and China, each allying with another for mutual benefit in whichever way it finds itself at odds with one or more of the others. It will be a constant standoff with the issues coming and going and alliances changing, but I don't see global agreement on anything. If any issue is important enough to demand it, then there will be global war, which is the disaster you speak of that seems likely to me.

There is another force to contend with. A growing amount of voters who might avail themselves of new ways of imposing political pressure internationally, via issue based campaigns. Groups such as Avaaz seem to me to be something greater that is still in its infancy.

As our predicament worsens, I think it is entirely possible that we will see populations threatening to grind society to a halt in the run up to international negotiations on the environment. We're not there yet, but it isn't crazy to foresee that we'll get there.

Too many people know only how to draw lines in the sand over any and every issue. And they're serious. That makes them very dangerous to keep around.

I recall you believed resolutely that Obama could not win the presidential elections in 2008 because of the color of his skin. I hope that you are wrong about this as you were wrong about that. I think we have our fingers on how you and I differ - I see more possibilities for humans to adapt and exhibit new behavior than you do.

This doesn't mean I'm naive - only more committed to giving the world a chance to evolve.

M.

[Chachma v'Oz]

I recall you believed resolutely that Obama could not win the presidential elections in 2008 because of the color of his skin.

I'd call it a fear and a likelihood rather than a resolute belief. I was pretty sure Hillary would win the nomination and was afraid that the Dems had cost themselves the election by picking Obama.

My 'druthers would have been first Hillary, then Obama in '16, rather than the other way around.

[Malcolm Wright]

I'd call it a fear and a likelihood rather than a resolute belief. I was pretty sure Hillary would win the nomination and was afraid that the Dems had cost themselves the election by picking Obama.

My 'druthers would have been first Hillary, then Obama in '16, rather than the other way around.

Fair enough. Thing is - that fear could have prevented a non-white from accomplishing something he was in fact able to do.

M.

[Chachma v'Oz]

My fear hardly had the strength to affect the outcome of the election. I voted my conscience, and enough others did as well that the desired outcome was achieved.

I didn't prefer Hillary over Obama because I thought she had a better chance of winning, I preferred Hillary over any contender. She's my gal.

[garyd]

Yep a lot of poor fucks bought the rhetoric of hope and change and got more of the same. Fortunately at least a few of them have awakened to the fact that they've been had. And Obam is going to have to campaign on something more cogent than calling everyone he disagrees with a Nazi or a racist.

[garyd]

The problem with the gold standard is not that it would in the short term collapse the economy but that it would essentially limit economic growth to the amount of gold on hand and the only way around that is to continuously devalue the dollars relationship to gold or to set it very low to begin with. Right now gold is trading somewhere above 1000 dollars an ounce.

[Cyclone Ranger]

Shrinking the money supply that severely would quickly induce a recession that woud make the 2008 global crisis look like a blip.

[Chachma v'Oz]

Maybe the right wing's plan is to destroy the country first thinking they can then establish the kind of setup they can control without all those pesky elections and constitutional rights the population is so in love with. That seemed to be their intent during the Bush administration.

[Pints with Plato]

The problem with the gold standard is not that it would in the short term collapse the economy but that it would essentially limit economic growth to the amount of gold on hand and the only way around that is to continuously devalue the dollars relationship to gold or to set it very low to begin with. Right now gold is trading somewhere above 1000 dollars an ounce.

I wouldn't deny that returning to a commodity based currency would result in a downturn, but the relevant term is, "short-term". You're also correct that economic growth would be limited in relation to the growth experience under a fiat currency regime. That much is intuitive. Going forward, the economy would not “shrink”; it would simply not expand as fast. The question should be, at what cost is this exponential growth?

Additionally, the notion that "deflation" (defined here as 'falling prices in goods') is always bad is false.

Good deflation occurs when prices and interest rates decline, consumers
receive more purchasing power from most assets, output expands and
productivity expands due to technological innovations. Bad deflation occurs
when prices and interest rates fall yet many consumers receive less purchasing
power from most assets, output contracts and productivity declines as a
result of central bank policies.

http://mises.org/journals/qjae/pdf/qjae9_2_5.pdf

It's obviously good for poor people, and in a truly free market (we're often told that recessions before the Fed were worse than since. Bob Wenzel addresses some of that HERE), where a stable currency unit and the economic forces of competition and innovation operate, this would be the general trend.

I think Tom Woods addresses these points during the course of this speech (I can’t recall exactly if this is the one):



Beyond this, the question of how a fiat currency operates should be addressed. I oppose the power created in vesting an entity or a cabal with the power to literally print money into existence. When the layman does this, it is called counterfeiting and is a crime. At the founding of the U.S., I believe, it was punishable by death, and for good reason. Inflation (an increase in the supply of money) is necessarily a “tax” (in the real world, that means ‘theft’), because – and this should be intuitive – it instantly decreases the value of the money you’re holding in your hand. This obviously is of no concern to the entity/cabal with the power to print it, because they can just print more. Counterfeiting benefits the printer, and those who get the money first – government and Wall Street banks. The very last class of people the money makes it’s way to is the poor… well after prices have crept up. Thus the poor are steadily losing ground.

It is obviously to the benefit of the banking class and the political class to protect this monetary regime. Thus the media (propaganda) and educational curriculum have been directed over the century toward favorable coverage and instruction, or specifically in regards to education, no/poor economic instruction.

[Cyclone Ranger]

Of course the economy would shrink: the money supply would be cut off into a tiny fraction of the current M2 level.

That's why no democratically elected goverment uses the gold standard; because voters aren't willing to trade off high double digit unemployment for a fixed rate of exchange.

[Cyclone Ranger]

I wouldn't deny that returning to a commodity based currency would result in a downturn, but the relevant term is, "short-term".

Let's see the evidence it woukd be short-term, given that there would no longer be any monetary policy available to correct it.

You're also correct that economic growth would be limited in relation to the growth experience under a fiat currency regime.

LOl! As if people measure their prosperity and standard of living against a hypothetical alternative instead of how they did last year?

Additionally, the notion that "deflation" (defined here as 'falling prices in goods') is always bad is false.

It's terrible if you want economic growth and investment; ie, the things that improve everyones's standard of living.

It's obviously good for poor people.

Unless they, say, want a job, or a house, or a business loan. Then, it sucks.

It might be good for people living on welfare, if your goal is to expand welfare as a generational lifestyle through perverse incentivization instead of expanding the economy, so they can have jobs instead.

[Šñøü†ê®]

Dude, I'm from Brooklyn, and I still talk like Brooklyn on my down time. I just live in Manhattan.

Pints with Plato, do you know the history of the clown formally known as Cowpunk? If I recall, he used to argue in favor of Greenscam!

[Cyclone Ranger]

I"m not Cowpunk.

If you don't have anything more constructive to add, why don't you stick to your Jew threads, fat boy?

[Pints with Plato]

I"m not Cowpunk.

If you don't have anything more constructive to add, why don't you stick to your Jew threads, fat boy?

Why don't YOU add something constructive for once, instead of unsubstantiated assertions? Beyond that, I'll put as much effort in my response to you as you did to mine...

It's hilarious that you chase me around telling me I don't do anything but flame and insult, when that's the substance of every one of your posts. Forgive me if I respond to you and others in kind.

[Pints with Plato]

dupe

[Šñøü†ê®]

fat boy

[Cyclone Ranger]

Why don't YOU add something constructive for once, instead of unsubstantiated assertions?

Unsubstantiated? You mean, you've never seen a photo of Snouter?

[Pints with Plato]

[Cyclone Ranger]

Prices are higher, but real income is higher too, even though average hours worked weekly have declined simultaneously.

Economics is about trade-offs.