drugs and the origin of religion

[the incredible b]

one of my all-time favorite books is 'Food of the Gods' by Terence McKenna

Editorial Reviews
From Kirkus Reviews
The ethnobotanist co-author of Psilocybin: The Magic Mushroom Grower's Guide (not reviewed) puts forth the theory that magic mushrooms are the original ``tree of knowledge'' and that the general lack of psychedelic exploration is leading Western society toward eventual collapse or destruction--controversial statements, to say the least, though the argument's details often prove fascinating. In the beginning, McKenna tells us, there were protohumans with small brains and plenty of genetic competition, and what eventually separated the men from the apes was an enthusiasm for the hallucinogenic mushrooms that grew on the feces of local cattle. Claiming that psilocybin in the hominid diet would have enhanced eyesight, sexual enjoyment, and language ability and would have thereby placed the mushroom-eaters in the front lines of genetic evolution--eventually leading to hallucinogen-ingesting shamanistic societies, the ancient Minoan culture, and some Amazonian tribes today--McKenna also asserts that the same drugs are now outlawed in the US because of their corrosive effect on our male-dominated, antispiritual society. Unconsciously craving the vehicles by which our ancestors expanded their imaginations and found meaning in their lives, he says, we feast on feeble substitutes: coffee, sugar, and chocolate, which reinforce competition and aggressiveness; tobacco, which destroys our bodies; alcohol, whose abuse leads to male violence and female degradation; TV, which deadens our senses; and the synthetics--heroin, cocaine and their variations--which leave us victimized by our own addiction. On the other hand, argues McKenna, magic mushrooms, used in a spiritually enlightened, ritual manner, can open the door to greater consciousness and further the course of human evolution- -legalization of all drugs therefore is, he says, an urgent necessity. Provocative words--often captivating, but not often convincing. -- Copyright ©1991, Kirkus Associates, LP. All rights reserved. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.

http://www.amazon.com/Food-Gods-Orig.../dp/0553371304

please also keep in mind that psilocybin mushrooms have a very low toxicity rate (an 80 kg person would need a whopping 1.7 kilos for an overdose of the dried variant, the fresh variant would take 17 kg, a physical impossibility i think) and account for few dangerous incidents. and even those rare incidents usually have to do with ignorance about the mushrooms and the use of it in general and/or a combination with other drugs (e.g. the extremely dangerous drug alcohol, which is sold in supermarkets).

on your marks, get set...discuss!

[Freedom&Liberty]

Most of DA's members are pro drug legalization, B.

[the incredible b]

im not! edit:

legalization would mean business men can make money off it, that would be horrible (since businessmen have no souls when it comes to making money). drugs need to be regulated. informed and morally sound people need to inform people and distribute appropriate drugs.

point for this thread was not so much the legal issue, but more mr mckenna's idea about the proto-human use of psilocybin.

[Freedom&Liberty]

Why would apes avoid eating mushrooms?

[the incredible b]

Why would apes avoid eating mushrooms?

they wouldnt. probably the taste (not good) would set them off at first. but the psychoactive components mustve seemed real interesting to them, encouraging them to use it more. with a much smaller categorizing frame of reference than we have today, the idea of attributing it to mystic spirituality is not (to us) a surprising one.

[Šñøü†ê®]

Mystical spirituality is really the antithesis of middle east derived religions. The middle east religions are generally primitive, racist political ideologies designed to drive the behavior of humans and control them based on fear, which is an emotion that actually blocks spiritual enlightenment whether it be natural or triggered by psychedelics.

[the incredible b]

thats true. i feel like its the antithesis too, but not just judaism, christianity and islam also hunduism and (to a lesser extent) buddhism. a religion has a hierarchy, which inhibits an individuals development; it has mythology, which places the lessons out of the actual world; it has symbology which (again) distracts people from the actual world; a lot of religious ritual is based on the previous three things.

mr mckenna's point is that the whole idea of a god (or spirits in general) finds its origin in our ancestors exploring inner space.

btw: ever heard of the gnostics? very early christians, with a much more personal and mystic take on the whole thing.
edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnostics

[Going Postal]

and the synthetics--heroin, cocaine and their variations--which leave us victimized by our own addiction.

- -legalization of all drugs therefore is, he says, an urgent necessity.

Huh?

[the incredible b]

Huh?

because that would take the drugs away from criminals. anything you outlaw is trade to them. regulating drugs legally would take a huge (huge!) bite out of crime and give society an opportunity to adress it in an intelligent way.

if children are honestly educated about drugs, without all the demonising exaggerations and lies they are so often told, if they learn to take drugs seriously and certainly no trivial matter, if they understand drugs profoundly elaborate on who you are, they will not use (as i call them) the 'stupid drugs' like coke, heroin, tobacco.

(like the sig btw)

[Malcolm Wright]

thats true. i feel like its the antithesis too, but not just judaism, christianity and islam also hunduism and (to a lesser extent) buddhism. a religion has a hierarchy, which inhibits an individuals development; it has mythology, which places the lessons out of the actual world; it has symbology which (again) distracts people from the actual world; a lot of religious ritual is based on the previous three things.

mr mckenna's point is that the whole idea of a god (or spirits in general) finds its origin in our ancestors exploring inner space.

btw: ever heard of the gnostics? very early christians, with a much more personal and mystic take on the whole thing.
edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnostics

Various religions do aim, in varying degrees, to help people explore inner space. Human society breeds such reliance on abstraction, language, verbal communication and technology that the road back to inner space is not straightforward for many. For some folks, symbols, myths, rituals... are necessary props on the way to not requiring them any longer.

As much as I value the life forms that can throw open the doors of perception, it is simply a fact that it is not for everybody. For some people, Buddhism or other organised conduits for spiritual development is better suited.

M

[optimus]

I like Terence McKenna, RIP. Great man, great thinker. Just stumbled on some of his videos on the youtube machine recently.

I agree with his theory, btw. Yes, I do think many religions were born out of psychedelic experiences. Lots of good evidence too, I'll see if I can find a great video on that...

[the incredible b]

Various religions do aim, in varying degrees, to help people explore inner space. Human society breeds such reliance on abstraction, language, verbal communication and technology that the road back to inner space is not straightforward for many. For some folks, symbols, myths, rituals... are necessary props on the way to not requiring them any longer.

excellent point, i concur. religions, though, do not aim at steering people to not needing religion anymore.

As much as I value the life forms that can throw open the doors of perception, it is simply a fact that it is not for everybody. For some people, Buddhism or other organised conduits for spiritual development is better suited.

i think people need practice. theyre just so used to religion that its easy to 'imbide'. psychonautic travel is (in our current society) a skill you have to learn to understand. i think many many many people can learn this and that it can make people happier than any organised preset list of ideas.

[Malcolm Wright]

psychonautic travel is (in our current society) a skill you have to learn to understand. i think many many many people can learn this and that it can make people happier than any organised preset list of ideas.

I agree - but drug-aided psychonautic travel is not for everyone.

M

[the incredible b]

drug-aided psychonautic travel is not for everyone.

M

true, not as is. mankind has a long way to go before we're there. an important step toward this end is letting go of the falsehoods of religion. i (of course) dont intend for this to be a quick fix. its a long and arduous road that requires a lot of work (the best kind of road after all ). i think that, eventually, it will be for everyone.

[Šñøü†ê®]

NOW THAT I THINK ABOUT IT, PSYCHEDELICS ARE NECESSARY TO UNDO THE DAMAGE OF OLD TESTAMENT BASED RELIGION! IT HELPS TRANSCEND THE BRAINWASHING AND THE GENITAL MUTILATION ASSOCIATED WITH MID EAST CULTS!