Zimmerman lies on the stand

[Malcolm Wright]

During a recent bail hearing, Zimmerman pronounced an apology to Martin's family.

The apology:

"I am sorry for the loss of your son," said Zimmerman, marking the first time he has spoken in public about the confrontation with the unarmed black teen. "I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am. I did not know if he was armed or not."

Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/new...#ixzz1snKlzfFr

Zimmerman is 28 years old.

From the transcript of Zimmerman's call to the 911 dispatcher minutes before the shooting, while he directly observed Martin.

Dispatcher: How old would you say he is?
Zimmerman: He's got button on his shirt. Late teens.
Dispatcher: Late teens ok.

http://www.documentcloud.org/documen...zimmerman.html

The trial's preliminary proceedings have barely begun and Zimmerman has already lied on the stand, to the parents of the victim, no less.

Zimmerman accurately assessed Martin's age as was recorded in the call he made to the 911 dispatcher. He guessed late teens. Martin was in fact 17. Now he claims he "didn't know how old he was", he "thought he was a little bit younger" than himself.

Beyond this damning change of story: it is interesting that he felt the need to express to the grieving parents that he did not know if Martin was armed or not. His claim, communicated via his father during a television interview, is that there was a struggle for Zimmerman's weapon, which is why he felt he had to shoot Martin.

If that were true, why would he feel the need to declare he didn't know if Martin was armed or not. It was irrelevant to his predicament: if both men were struggling for Zimmerman's weapon, that was the reason for shooting Martin, not the thought that Martin might have some other weapon of his own.

The only logical motivation for Zimmerman's statement is that he felt he had to justify his behavior towards Martin BEFORE the struggle for his weapon occurred. The only such behavior that could require such a justification is if Zimmerman did something out of fear that Martin was armed: such as draw his own weapon.

This is the scenario I have favored for a while now, and Martin's words at the bail hearing seem to reinforce that impression.

MAKES NO SENSE: "I didn't know if he was armed or not...", so I shot him while we struggled for my gun.

MAKES PERFECT SENSE: I pulled my weapon on Martin, because "I didn't know if he was armed or not"

If Zimmerman pulled his weapon on Martin, not only did he lie previously about the weapon coming into play because Martin saw it at his hip, told him he was going to die, and tried to wrestle it from him - he also gave Martin a very valid reason to fear for HIS life, and to stand his ground and try to overcome Zimmerman physically.

M.

[86Dùde]

He was probably looking for a fight, but I just don't like the way certain people, organizations etc have used this for their purposes.

[Freedom&Liberty]

I doubt that the difference between "a little bit younger" and "late teens" is all that damning. Even if both were armed, they could have struggled over one weapon.

[DngrMse]

I doubt that the difference between "a little bit younger" and "late teens" is all that damning. Even if both were armed, they could have struggled over one weapon.

MW is fully invested in Zimmerman's guilt, and he has been since his first post on this issue. Check out his 8,000 word novelette/post here on DA as proof.

[Malcolm Wright]

MW is fully invested in Zimmerman's guilt, and he has been since his first post on this issue. Check out his 8,000 word novelette/post here on DA as proof.

Hehe - I'm invested in this case, not in its outcome. And I certainly have an opinion.
You think I'll be disappointed if my intuitions are wrong and Zimmerman is proven to have acted in self defense? That would be you, projecting: I guess its hard for you to imagine someone actually investing their thoughts deeply in a matter without a huge amount of ego.

M.

[Malcolm Wright]

I doubt that the difference between "a little bit younger" and "late teens" is all that damning. Even if both were armed, they could have struggled over one weapon.

The difference between 19 and 28 is 9 years.
That's a third of Zimmerman's lifetime. A little younger does not mean 9 years by anyone's stretch of the imagination.

As for the being armed issue, you missed my point.

M.

[antiquity]

You don't have a point, you have an agenda.

[Malcolm Wright]

You don't have a point, you have an agenda.

You can't argue with the post, as usual...

[Cyclone Ranger]

With all due respect, Malcolm, the fact he had made a guess about his age doesn't mean he knew it as a fact, and therefore perjured himself.

[DngrMse]

Hehe - I'm invested in this case, not in its outcome. And I certainly have an opinion.
You think I'll be disappointed if my intuitions are wrong and Zimmerman is proven to have acted in self defense? That would be you, projecting: I guess its hard for you to imagine someone actually investing their thoughts deeply in a matter without a huge amount of ego.

M.

No...an opinion is "I think cheese is tasty". Five words..simple, subjective, and concise.

Your serialized soap opera screed, using discredited, false, and fabricated 'evidence' to support your belief that Z is a racist murdering fuckhead is an obsession, and one that you cling too even though available evidence, that you have to be aware of, proves the opposite of your pre conceived conclusions.

[Freedom&Liberty]

The difference between 19 and 28 is 9 years.
That's a third of Zimmerman's lifetime. A little younger does not mean 9 years by anyone's stretch of the imagination.

We've all seen people in their twenties who still look like teenagers. We've also seen teenagers that look like they are in their twenties. 9 years isn't that big of a stretch.

[9ball8]

Of course. Anyone is entitled to change their opinion. Might be in his teens....might be older than me. Of course, the prosecutor is going to run with this discrepency, along with any others he will find. And he'll find a few.
Rather than accuse MW of an agenda, how 'bout playing Defense Attorney and responding with a decent defense? We're only playing cops 'n robbers here, not shooting real guns.

[Malcolm Wright]

No...an opinion is "I think cheese is tasty". Five words..simple, subjective, and concise.

Your serialized soap opera screed, using discredited, false, and fabricated 'evidence' to support your belief that Z is a racist murdering fuckhead is an obsession, and one that you cling too even though available evidence, that you have to be aware of, proves the opposite of your pre conceived conclusions.

The first bolded section are items you never demonstrated, despite being asked to repeatedly. One must simply conclude that you like to talk shit, rather than debate?

The second bolded section should be easy enough for you to back up with at least one quote from anything I have said on this board? You claim I wrote an 8000 word novelette on the matter: there should be plenty of material for you to quote right? You have two options:

a) you provide said quote
b) you accept that you have once again engaged in shameless distortion, making you a bit of a hack

To be kind, lets even say that any of your cheer leaders, Antiquity or Freedom and Liberty, can also provide said quote to save your honor Lets see whether as a team of three, you can provide that single quote.

M.

[Malcolm Wright]

With all due respect, Malcolm, the fact he had made a guess about his age doesn't mean he knew it as a fact, and therefore perjured himself.

I'm not talking about technical perjury, but something you and I, and the jury can recognize as a lie.
And you are not correctly presenting the guess he made.

Zimmerman made a guess at Martin's age the night of the shooting. And it was a remarkably accurate guess. Martin was indeed in his late teens.

Now weeks later, he says in court that he thought Martin was just a little younger than his own age of 28.
So its not a case of him guessing incorrectly - that's completely excusable and people routinely guess my age incorrectly by a margin of 10 or more years. No, its a case of him first guessing Martin's age correctly, and then subsequently lying about what that guess originally was.

The context is not central to the case, but it certainly hurts Zimmerman's character that in an apology to the dead kid's parents, he feels the need to pretend he believed Martin was much older than he did. That night, he had a very good idea of how old Martin was. But he felt it would somehow exculpate him a little if people thought he believed Martin to be older, and so less innocent and more of a threat, making Zimmerman's decision to pull the trigger more understandable.

That's not perjury, but it is a lie and any objective person will demote his credibility significantly for it.

M.

[Malcolm Wright]

We've all seen people in their twenties who still look like teenagers. We've also seen teenagers that look like they are in their twenties. 9 years isn't that big of a stretch.

You're right - it is hard to guess people's age.
But Zimmerman guessed his age correctly. No umm-ing or ah-ing: the dispatcher asked him, and he said late teens. And he was RIGHT.

He is now lying when he claims that he believed Martin to be only a little younger than himself. He believed Martin to be at least 9 years younger than himself, and that's a matter of record.

M

[queenlillian1962]

We've all seen people in their twenties who still look like teenagers. We've also seen teenagers that look like they are in their twenties. 9 years isn't that big of a stretch.

my husband would be an example of this. He is 10 months older then me but when we were dating/newly weds, people accused me of robbing the cradle because they knew I was in my 20's but he looked 16.

[queenlillian1962]

You're right - it is hard to guess people's age.
But Zimmerman guessed his age correctly. No umm-ing or ah-ing: the dispatcher asked him, and he said late teens. And he was RIGHT.

He is now lying when he claims that he believed Martin to be only a little younger than himself. He believed Martin to be at least 9 years younger than himself, and that's a matter of record.

M

Devils Advocate: lets say he lied about the age, how does the prove he killed the kid on purpose? I'm sure Zimmerman has guilt. It's a hard thing to know you killed someone and he probably does feel guilty even if it was unintentional or a split second decision because he was scared.

[Malcolm Wright]

my husband would be an example of this. He is 10 months older then me but when we were dating/newly weds, people accused me of robbing the cradle because they knew I was in my 20's but he looked 16.

Hey Q - work with me here. People can't guess my age to save their lives. I know exactly what you're saying.
But that is far from the point here.

Zimmerman CORRECTLY guessed Martin's age on the night of the shooting. His guess was solicited by the 911 dispatcher, and was recorded in that call: he guessed Martin was in his late teens. Martin is in fact 17. Great guess. Well done Zimmerman.

The problem is that although Zimmerman has since had confirmation that his impression that night was spot on, he chose to lie in court and say that he had believed Martin to be only a little younger than his own 28 years of age.

M.

[Malcolm Wright]

Devils Advocate: lets say he lied about the age, how does the prove he killed the kid on purpose? I'm sure Zimmerman has guilt. It's a hard thing to know you killed someone and he probably does feel guilty even if it was unintentional or a split second decision because he was scared.

Did anyone here say it proves anything asides from the fact that he lied? Did you read the OP?
If you have a shred of objectivity, you'll recognize that someone who lies in court can't expect their credibility to rate highly. And Zimmerman's only currency is his credibility, because for the moment we have to take his word for key moments of the events. If his word isn't worth much, that's his loss, unless of course the jury seems to care as little about lies as you, Freedom and Liberty, and Antiquity here.

M.

[caddis]

Devils Advocate: lets say he lied about the age, how does the prove he killed the kid on purpose? I'm sure Zimmerman has guilt. It's a hard thing to know you killed someone and he probably does feel guilty even if it was unintentional or a split second decision because he was scared.

It doesn't prove shit and the open minded Malconcent knows it. I suppose if I saw soemone in a hoodie, in the rain, at night that appeared to be up to no good I might consider him a teenager too, but after Zimmerman got his ass kicked by the "kid" he might have changed his mind on his age-estimate.