What is "basic" healthcare?

[Archaix]

You've already gone down the road of universal health care, and are now retreating from the promise of free everything to everyone. By your own statements, the NHS is covering LESS now than it used to. IOW, as America is moving TOWARD universal health care, you are retreating FROM it.

It was never a principle of 'free everything to everyone', and I've already stated that it's free at the point of need rather than free. And yes, the NHS doesn't cover most people for dental, optical and many prescriptions, but it hasn't done so for decades. The whole machinery of the NHS operates as it always has, and there's no argument in this country to get rid of it. Dental, optical and more prescription subsidies could be very easily added, and ought to be considering that fewer working-class families can afford it now without help.

[hadit]

It was never a principle of 'free everything to everyone', and I've already stated that it's free at the point of need rather than free. And yes, the NHS doesn't cover most people for dental, optical and many prescriptions, but it hasn't done so for decades. The whole machinery of the NHS operates as it always has, and there's no argument in this country to get rid of it. Dental, optical and more prescription subsidies could be very easily added, and ought to be considering that fewer working-class families can afford it now without help.

Except that you've already said care is regressing.

[Archaix]

It's regressed since the 1940s, but it's not dwindling with every year into obscurity. But I realise you're only able to concieve of a socialist enterprise as either insidious and creeping or inept and failing because of your world view, so I'll lay off you for a bit.

[hadit]

It's regressed since the 1940s, but it's not dwindling with every year into obscurity. But I realise you're only able to concieve of a socialist enterprise as either insidious and creeping or inept and failing because of your world view, so I'll lay off you for a bit.

IOW, you concede my point, that British healthcare is moving AWAY from total socialized medicine.

[Archaix]

It's not moving anywhere.

[Chachma v'Oz]

It's not moving anywhere.

It looks like it's moving to those on the bullet train to outermost right field.

[hadit]

It's not moving anywhere.

Then why are fewer things being covered over time? OTOH, you say it is regressing, you say it is covering less and less. On the other, you say it's not going anywhere. Those two do not work together.

[Archaix]

I said three times that it had 'regressed', never that it was 'regressing' and never that I expected it to continue to regress into nothing.

I realise other world-views are difficult for you to process, but you're seriously this blind?

[hadit]

I said three times that it had 'regressed', never that it was 'regressing'

And why do you think it regressed, unless it was found to be too expensive to provide that level of care?

and never that I expected it to continue to regress into nothing.

Strawman. I didn't say that either.

I realise other world-views are difficult for you to process, but you're seriously this blind?

I realize you don't understand how anyone could disagree with your world-view, but they do, and quite correctly too.

[Chachma v'Oz]

Every program created by man has been tweaked over time to accommodate changing conditions. If you want things set in stone, stick to the Hebrew bible.

[hadit]

Every program created by man has been tweaked over time to accommodate changing conditions. If you want things set in stone, stick to the Hebrew bible.

The question is why was it tweaked, and what were the results of the tweak? Obviously, according to him, the tweaks were to reduce care, and the results were less care.

[kellyb]

The question is why was it tweaked, and what were the results of the tweak? Obviously, according to him, the tweaks were to reduce care, and the results were less care.

There was a time when you could pay a doctor with a chicken. Then medical science got really advanced and everything became really expensive. The NHS is still 99% egalitarian, but as medical science continues to advance, medicine will continue to become more expensive. So you have a few choices:
1) lock everyone besides the rich out
2) lock everyone into substandard care for forever
3) have a 2 tiered system of some sort

You, hadit, don't probably know it, but you're a proponent of option #1. And a lot of socialized medicine proponents don't realize that they're advocating #2.

[Chachma v'Oz]

Assume what you will. It may be reducing care in one area where needs were more than fulfilled and channeling resources into another area where unanticipated demands were found, becoming more efficient over time as the program settled in. Maybe there's a Web site on their system with a brief history of its development that can satisfy your curiosity better than laymen on a forum.

[Chachma v'Oz]

There was a time when you could pay a doctor with a chicken. Then medical science got really advanced and everything became really expensive. The NHS is still 99% egalitarian, but as medical science continues to advance, medicine will continue to become more expensive. So you have a few choices:
1) lock everyone besides the rich out
2) lock everyone into substandard care for forever
3) have a 2 tiered system of some sort

You, hadit, don't probably know it, but you're a proponent of option #1. And a lot of socialized medicine proponents don't realize that they're advocating #2.

The system in Thailand seems to work fine. Every citizen is entitled to health care. It's not fancy. If you need hospitalization you'll be in a ward sharing staff with everyone else. But it's all but free because your country is providing it as a basic human service. And those are private, not government-run, hospitals, doctors and support staff.

But you needn't settle for that. If you have the wherewithal, you can get the best care there is. You'll have a private room with accommodations for family to stay by your bedside around the clock, with a dedicated medical staff at your beck and call.

It all depends on your needs and your preferences, if you can afford to indulge them. I think a system like that would be good for the US.

[kellyb]

The system in Thailand seems to work fine. Every citizen is entitled to health care. It's not fancy. If you need hospitalization you'll be in a ward sharing staff with everyone else. But it's all but free because your country is providing it as a basic human service. And those are private, not government-run, hospitals, doctors and support staff.

But you needn't settle for that. If you have the wherewithal, you can get the best care there is. You'll have a private room with accommodations for family to stay by your bedside around the clock, with a dedicated medical staff at your beck and call.

It all depends on your needs and your preferences, if you can afford to indulge them. I think a system like that would be good for the US.

But that's my option #3, tho, isn't it? Basic care for everyone, but the best of the best for the rich?

[Chachma v'Oz]

But that's my option #3, tho, isn't it? Basic care for everyone, but the best of the best for the rich?

Yes. You identified who fell into categories #1 and #2 and I filled in #3. It works fine.

Seniors here have a similar setup. Most participants use Medicare exclusively while some of us augment it with a private health care plan. Everyone could have a choice like that if we'd get off the dime and quit molly-coddling the selfish right wing minority in this country.

[Freedom&Liberty]

If you let option #1 go on long enough, you'll naturally achieve -

4) Don't expect others to pay for your problems.

[kellyb]

If you let option #1 go on long enough, you'll naturally achieve -

4) Don't expect others to pay for your problems.

Freedom and Liberty.
The freedom and liberty of having the average age of death be 30.

How liberating. There's no greater liberty than being liberated from your earthly body, huh?

[Freedom&Liberty]

There's no greater liberty than being allowed to die for the common good of your country.

[GanjaFreebird]

There's no greater liberty than being allowed to die for the common good of your country.