Oh, no...Obama's Birth Cert is actually FAKED. I'm CONVINCED!!

[big steve]

A little weak on Iran, too much concentration on the "settlements" and too much credit for the "arab spring", yes, but still one of the most pro-Israel and anti-terrorist presidents that America ever had, and in some ways the most pro-Israel, as he increased Israel's security help more than anybody before him and he told the Palestinians to go fuck themselves at the UN, like no other President did before him. Just ask Guido, he thinks Obama is more dangerous to Muslim terrorists than anybody else, even Bush, because he managed to kill most of their leaders (including Bin Laden), destroy a few of their countries, while still getting away with it in the media because he is a nice liberal Black guy, rather than a mean White conservative. Me and Guido rarely agree, but he does have good points when it comes to this one, his feelings about it are wrong (as one should be HAPPY about it, while he's not), but the points are correct nevertheless, in a lot of ways.



Since that law was changed (and moreover, is now considered to be racist), it's absolutely not clear that it would apply to Obama in 2012, and if it ever came down to it, the judges would most likely ignore that, or else they would be accused of racism. Even if Obama was born in Kenya and one could prove that, that would still be almost impossible to do anything about it, because his mother was born here, and it's legally very tough to fight in favor of a Jim Crow law that expired in 1962.

It's my impression that Obama is too weak and trusting with Iran regarding what the uranium will be used for.

I agree regarding little would be done if it's proven he was born in Kenya. That is likely true, but might hurt him politically depending on the time factor.

[lily]

Life would still go on, believe it or not, and Obama would STILL be the president simply because his mother was born here

Wrong, that was already covered here.

[GanjaFreebird]

Wrong, that was already covered here.

Ok:

It's not quite that simple. Apparently, there isn't a consensus on the definition of "natural born citizen."

Then it means he would probably still be our President even if he was born in Africa.

But at this point, even if it was determined that a person born abroad with one American citizen parent qualifies as a natural born citizen, it wouldn't matter.

Sure it would.

Because IF (big if here) it did turn out that he was born abroad, then he would be guilty of fraud/forgery, and intentionally deceiving the nation this entire time.

No, because there was no legal order for him to release it to begin with, he did it completely on his own just because many people asked him to, it wasn't a court order, therefore, it's legal for anybody to lie as long as they don't do it in court.

But then again, he was born in America.

If Vader and Ganja's definition of natural born citizen is constitutionally correct, then he should've (and would've) just told the truth from the start.

Again, that's because he was born in America, however, lying is only illegal when you're in court.

[GanjaFreebird]

It's my impression that Obama is too weak and trusting with Iran regarding what the uranium will be used for.

Sure, but then again, bombing Iran is indeed a big decision and only should happen when the right time comes.

I agree regarding little would be done if it's proven he was born in Kenya. That is likely true, but might hurt him politically depending on the time factor

It probably wouldn't hurt him politically after this year.

[lily]

No, because there was no legal order for him to release it to begin with, he did it completely on his own just because many people asked him to, it wasn't a court order, therefore, it's legal for anybody to lie as long as they don't do it in court.

But then again, he was born in America.



Again, that's because he was born in America, however, lying is only illegal when you're in court.

Ganja, if you actually think that the sh*t wouldn't hit the fan IF the most powerful man in the world was revealed to be a usurper, fraud, and someone who thumbed his nose at the world, and acted as if he was a king, by not showing up to court, and dragging this country through this prolonged lie...then you really ARE living in la-la land.

And FYI, forgery IS a crime, as is pretending to be someone you're not, blatantly lying in his oath of office (which could be considered treason), obstruction of justice and failure to appear in court.

Thanks for trying, but...



As far as I'm concerned, his FTA alone should be reason enough for him to step down and be recognized as lawless. Why, because as a "leader" (someone who should set an example) if he can blow off appearing in court, what message does that send to all of us, and why can't you or I do that? He is not a king, he is not above the law, and he swore to uphold the law. It was the same with Clinton. And sadly, back then many Dems also acted as if he was above the law. I guess Dems actually want a king, instead of a public servant.

[GanjaFreebird]

Ganja, if you actually think that the sh*t wouldn't hit the fan IF the most powerful man in the world was revealed to be a usurper, fraud

Impossible because he won the American election the fair way, unlike somebody else in 2000. Most Americans voted for him because of his politics, not because of his place of birth.

someone who thumbed his nose at the world, and acted as if he was a king,

That's legal. People do that all the time.

by not showing up to court,

You're lying because you CANNOT "not show up to court" when the court actually wants you to show up. If he was EVER accused of a crime and the courts found the accusations reasonable enough, he would've had no choice but to get his ass to court.

and dragging this country through this prolonged lie...then you really ARE living in la-la land.

The fairy tales itself says that Obama's mother brought him back to America when he was a week old and lied to the authorities, therefore, he could always blame all of it on his late mother and say that he didn't know about it, I mean, he was apparently just a baby then. Therefore, the fairy tale itself couldn't do anything in your favor, even if it was to be true somehow...none of it is even close to being "good enough" to get rid of Obama, he would've found a way around it if he had to, I'm pretty sure.

And FYI, forgery IS a crime, as is pretending to be someone you're not

He never pretended to be another person, even according to the fairy tales that you believe in, only that his mother gave birth to him in Africa and brought him back to America when he was a week, while lying to the authorities about her very weird apparent decision of giving birth in Africa in the middle of her semester in college.

The state of Hawaii released the copy of the BC that they have, so obviously he couldn't have been the one to commit a "forgery".

blatantly lying in his oath of office (which could be considered treason)

What did he lie about?

obstruction of justice

Obstruction of WHAT justice (remember, EVEN if his mother DID go to Africa in the middle of her semester in college to give birth in a third world little village, Obama himself was a week old when he apparently came to America, so he didn't necessarily even had to KNOW about any of it)?

failing to appear in court.

Obviously not, because then he would be charged with failing to appear in court...perhaps, what you're TRYING to say is that the case was rather dismissed?

[lily]

Ganja, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you're being intentionally obtuse, because no one can be THAT dense.

And keep in mind, we were talking about what would happen IF it turned out that he was lying this whole time, so your "fairy tale" line is irrelevant, because this whole conversation was prefaced with, "assuming he WAS guilty" (of having a fake birth certificate.)

And now I think you have gone beyond mere defense of Obama, into that river in Egypt and lying to yourself, with ridiculous assertions like it's OK for him to act like a king. When I say "act like a king" I'm saying acting as if one is above the law, or a dictator. And I KNOW you can't think that is OK, because if you do, then you really do need to re-visit reality.

And yes, he did fail to appear in court. And one more thing... You seem to think that the only issue here is where he was born. That is one issue, but it could be something else entirely, if the birth certificate is false. It could be something that he's hiding, like a different name, or that his parents weren't married, or something else. Who knows. I'm just saying that a false birth certificate need not be only about his place of birth.

[Malcolm Wright]

I think Ganka IS being obtuse and knows full well that if proven, this would seriously hurt Obama.

M

[lily]

I think Ganka IS being obtuse and knows full well that if proven, this would seriously hurt Obama.

M

Ah, thank you! Some honesty is a breath of fresh air!

[GanjaFreebird]

Ganja, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you're being intentionally obtuse, because no one can be THAT dense.

And keep in mind, we were talking about what would happen IF it turned out that he was lying this whole time, so your "fairy tale" line is irrelevant, because this whole conversation was prefaced with, "assuming he WAS guilty" (of having a fake birth certificate.)

In America, we have this "innocent until proven guilty" thing, you know...

And now I think you have gone beyond mere defense of Obama, into that river in Egypt and lying to yourself, with ridiculous assertions like it's OK for him to act like a king.

I know, how dare that negro think so much of himself, he should always know his place, right.

When I say "act like a king" I'm saying acting as if one is above the law, or a dictator.

If the law doesn't require him to go to court, he doesn't have to do that. Nobody is above the law.

And I KNOW you can't think that is OK, because if you do, then you really do need to re-visit reality.

What? Him acting like an arrogant asshole towards right-wingers, without breaking the law? I actually kinda like it.

And yes, he did fail to appear in court.

He wasn't required to attend it according to the law.

And one more thing... You seem to think that the only issue here is where he was born.

No, the REAL issue here is...what kind of dirt could we POSSIBLY find to get rid of Obama, who cares if it's true or not.

That is one issue, but it could be something else entirely, if the birth certificate is false. It could be something that is more 'minor' that he's hiding, like a different name,

Maybe he used to go under his mother's last name, but whatever, who gives a shit.

or that his parents weren't married,

So? I don't care about that, do you?

or something else. Who knows. I'm just saying that a false birth certificate need not be only about his place of birth.

So why do you give a shit then?

[GanjaFreebird]

I think Ganka IS being obtuse and knows full well that if proven, this would seriously hurt Obama.

M

I didn't say it wouldn't HURT him, I said, it wouldn't be enough to prevent him from being the President if he gets re-elected this year.

Having said that, it's not going to happen anyways, Obama was born in America, for what it's worth, which ain't much.

[optimus]

It doesn't actually matter if Obama wasn't born here. Because even IF it was shown and proven that he was born in Kenya or whatever, the government would deny it vigorously and severely damage the reputations and credibility of the people submitting the proof. There's no way they would allow egg on their face. Just won't happen guys, which is why this is such a waste of time for birthers.

NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT HE REALLY WAS BORN IN HAWAII.

[Malcolm Wright]

It doesn't actually matter if Obama wasn't born here. Because even IF it was shown and proven that he was born in Kenya or whatever, the government would deny it vigorously and severely damage the reputations and credibility of the people submitting the proof. There's no way they would allow egg on their face. Just won't happen guys, which is why this is such a waste of time for birthers.

NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT HE REALLY WAS BORN IN HAWAII.

I agree its a waste of everyone's time at this point, unless they bring proof.
But I think it would hurt Obama a lot. Its one thing to discredit those who bring proof... but it doesn't actually mean no damage is sustained from the event. The American people would still draw their conclusions, and the climate would worsen considerably.

M

[Malcolm Wright]

I didn't say it wouldn't HURT him, I said, it wouldn't be enough to prevent him from being the President if he gets re-elected this year.

Having said that, it's not going to happen anyways, Obama was born in America, for what it's worth, which ain't much.

True - I made the mistake of believing you had said that because Lily's post inferred that you had.
Sorry about that.

M.

[GanjaFreebird]

It doesn't actually matter if Obama wasn't born here. Because even IF it was shown and proven that he was born in Kenya or whatever, the government would deny it vigorously and severely damage the reputations and credibility of the people submitting the proof. There's no way they would allow egg on their face. Just won't happen guys, which is why this is such a waste of time for birthers.

NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT HE REALLY WAS BORN IN HAWAII.

EXACTLY!!

[GanjaFreebird]

True - I made the mistake of believing you had said that because Lily's post inferred that you had.
Sorry about that.

M.

No problem.

But I think it would hurt Obama a lot. Its one thing to discredit those who bring proof... but it doesn't actually mean no damage is sustained from the event. The American people would still draw their conclusions, and the climate would worsen considerably.

In America, it's "innocent until proven guilty", so if those who brought the "proof" were discredited, then it wouldn't make any difference. People who would vote for Obama wouldn't give a shit either way as they never have to begin with, and those who really believe that he was born in Africa wouldn't vote for him anyways and never have, and VERY FEW people actually give a shit about this issue to the point that they would stop liking Obama just because of that, if they like him to begin with. So in the end of the day, he can hardly lose what he doesn't have and wouldn't have anyways.