Witness: teen Trayvon attacked Zimmerman and beat him as Zimmerman cried for help

[Lulu]

Nor is he claiming any. Instead, he is claiming the right of self-defense. And the eyewitness testimony bears ouut the correctness of the claim.

Nice try at changing the subject/deflecting the argument.

Who's deflecting or changing the subject? The big issue in this case is Zimmerman wasn't arrested because of "stand your ground". The actual authors of the statute say the police screwed up. So far I haven't heard any defense out of Zimmerman. And no, I'm not falling in step with your "blame the victim" schtick, which I guess means I am changing the subject, right? Zimmerman was the aggressor... he stalked Trayvon who was walking back from the store for skittles... and he very obviously confronted Trayvon - who had been minding his own business. I'd said it before - this changes nothing. Zimmerman stalked him, confronted him, and Trayvon had a right to defend himself from someone who could have been mugging him.

It isn't self-defense if you go out of your way to look for trouble and you threaten someone (yes, stalking someone is threatening them).

[Malcolm Wright]

theyre very quick to Point out that it wasn't a registered neighborhood watch so he may or may not have been aware of their guidelines. Let me be clear, I don't agree with him confronting anyone, but it wasn't illegal.

Zimmerman made 46 calls to 911 since he started his self-appointed role. He looked up to law enforcement and had an active interest in criminal justice. He took his self-appointed role as the patrolling neighborhood watch guy VERY seriously according to all those who lived there. All this makes it HIGHLY unlikely that he was not aware of the guidelines for neighborhood watches. Hopefully you can concede that much.

If he was not aware of them: the buck has to stop somewhere. He bloody well should have been aware of them and this cost someone's life. If we tell the nation its ok to go out and buy a gun and play cop without respecting the guidelines or even being aware of them... to shoot someone in the process... then this will happen again.

Lets not even begin to make excuses for him maybe not being aware of the guidelines, as unlikely as that may be.

His confronting the person wasn't illegal, but it wasn't right and I know you're not one to get stuck on the letter of the law when something goes down that shouldn't have. Manslaughter is illegal, and I think Zimmerman is going to find that out soon enough.

M

[Pho King]

Zimmerman made 46 calls to 911 since he started his self-appointed role. He looked up to law enforcement and had an active interest in criminal justice. He took his self-appointed role as the patrolling neighborhood watch guy VERY seriously according to all those who lived there. All this makes it HIGHLY unlikely that he was not aware of the guidelines for neighborhood watches. Hopefully you can concede that much.

If he was not aware of them: the buck has to stop somewhere. He bloody well should have been aware of them and this cost someone's life. If we tell the nation its ok to go out and buy a gun and play cop without respecting the guidelines or even being aware of them... to shoot someone in the process... then this will happen again.

Lets not even begin to make excuses for him maybe not being aware of the guidelines, as unlikely as that may be.

His confronting the person wasn't illegal, but it wasn't right and I know you're not one to get stuck on the letter of the law when something goes down that shouldn't have. Manslaughter is illegal, and I think Zimmerman is going to find that out soon enough.

M

Of what substantive value is the bolded in a criminal prosecution? Zimmerman was not bound by any guidelines. If he had a legal right to engage in the activities he was engaged in, then he was right to defend himself.

[jwreck]

Zimmerman made 46 calls to 911 since he started his self-appointed role. He looked up to law enforcement and had an active interest in criminal justice. He took his self-appointed role as the patrolling neighborhood watch guy VERY seriously according to all those who lived there. All this makes it HIGHLY unlikely that he was not aware of the guidelines for neighborhood watches. Hopefully you can concede that much.

If he was not aware of them: the buck has to stop somewhere. He bloody well should have been aware of them and this cost someone's life. If we tell the nation its ok to go out and buy a gun and play cop without respecting the guidelines or even being aware of them... to shoot someone in the process... then this will happen again.

Lets not even begin to make excuses for him maybe not being aware of the guidelines, as unlikely as that may be.

His confronting the person wasn't illegal, but it wasn't right and I know you're not one to get stuck on the letter of the law when something goes down that shouldn't have. Manslaughter is illegal, and I think Zimmerman is going to find that out soon enough.

M

I'm not making excuses for aanyone or anything. However, I will say that the letter of the law is what get''s you thrown in jail, not wether or not something is a good idea.

[Farnsworth,Luther P.]

Martin initiated the violent confrontation, attacked Zimmerman, gashing the back of his head with something and beating him, and then got his ass shot for his violent thuggery. Zimmerman was on a public street, and violating no law, having the same rights to be on the street as anybody else. Zimmerman's only discernible 'crime' is being the wrong color to suit black racists and their racist apologists. Zimmerman's crime is merely in being hispanic. That's it.

Now some racist idiots on the Diane Rheems show today were saying Zimmerman is supposed to pay for a lynching in a town a few miles away, in 1840, and he's also responsible for the Emmett Till murder. It's hilarious how ridiculous the racists are spinning this.

[Farnsworth,Luther P.]

t isn't self-defense if you go out of your way to look for trouble and you threaten someone (yes, stalking someone is threatening them).

Yes, hispanics are supposed to avoid being on the same public streets if it offends some black guy.

[Farnsworth,Luther P.]

So, what do people think the ambulance chasers are promising Martin's family for a Big Payday? $20 million? $100 million?

[kellyb]

Martin initiated the violent confrontation, attacked Zimmerman, gashing the back of his head with something and beating him, and then got his ass shot for his violent thuggery. .

And you know this how?

[Chachma v'Oz]

All we know is that Zimmerman ignored the police dispatcher's instruction to back off, then he shot and killed Martin, an unarmed youth. What else may have transpired is for the grand jury to decide.

[Malcolm Wright]

Of what substantive value is the bolded in a criminal prosecution? Zimmerman was not bound by any guidelines. If he had a legal right to engage in the activities he was engaged in, then he was right to defend himself.

Its very simple - when examining manslaughter, the court will have to decide what factors contributed to the death. The questions of whether Zimmerman was aware of the guidelines or not, and whether he followed them or not (he didn't) will be a major factor under examination. You didn't know this?

M

[Malcolm Wright]

I'm not making excuses for aanyone or anything. However, I will say that the letter of the law is what get''s you thrown in jail, not wether or not something is a good idea.

Absolutely right - however the letter of the law should have landed him in jail. He shot someone, and the circumstances of the shooting were not clear. You know this.

M

[jwreck]

Absolutely right - however the letter of the law should have landed him in jail. He shot someone, and the circumstances of the shooting were not clear. You know this.

M

And I've said as much.

[Chachma v'Oz]

This incident also illustrates one of the less spoken of aspects of having the general public carrying firearms in public. People who are armed are more likely to assume that anyone they may encounter is also armed, and thus over-react to a perceived threat.

[jwreck]

This incident also illustrates one of the less spoken of aspects of having the general public carrying firearms in public. People who are armed are more likely to assume that anyone they may encounter is also armed, and thus over-react to a perceived threat.

Evidence?

[Chachma v'Oz]

Prima facie. One doesn't carry a deadly weapon around unless he foresees a need to use it.

[Truth Teller]

Call takers are not police officers.

Nitpicking,you know fucking well what he meant.

And the eyewitness testimony bears ouut the correctness of the claim.

1.No,it doesn't,we don't know if the eyewitness testimony is accurate or not,often eywtinesses (especially weeks after the fact) are inaccurate.


2.The eyewitness didn't see what preceeded all of that,it's possible the eyewitness could be accurate, but yet it's still possible that Zimmerman provoked it.

The leftist Race Pimps in this country are a complete disgrace, then again most kook leftists are.

I'm sure David Duke agrees with you.

Truth be known...Zimmerman is...

"...a Spanish speaking minority with many black family members and friends. He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever.... The media portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth."

Some racist.

I know. You kooks saw the name George Zimmerman, and immediately thought he was a Jew?

One doesn't have to be a WASP to be a racist.

Look at Snouter.

We do know that Zimmerman had grass all over his back and was bleeding. We also know that an eyewitness confirmed that the kid was hitting Zimmerman.

That evidence could mean that Zimmerman hit first and that it was Martin who engaged in self-defense.

There was a gap between it starting and what the witness saw.

Wow, so many presumptions.

Half of them by your NRA homeys.

but it wasn't illegal.

You're making a "presumption" right there.

The investigation is underway

It wouldn't be if the public hadn't stood up,and that's the key point you are missing.

though I'm of the opinion Zimmerman is screwed regardless. He's already been sentenced to death in the court of public opinion

I sadly agree,but that wouldn't have happend if the police had done their job properly from day one,so blame the police,no one else.

Who's deflecting or changing the subject? The big issue in this case is Zimmerman wasn't arrested because of "stand your ground". The actual authors of the statute say the police screwed up. So far I haven't heard any defense out of Zimmerman. And no, I'm not falling in step with your "blame the victim" schtick, which I guess means I am changing the subject, right? Zimmerman was the aggressor... he stalked Trayvon who was walking back from the store for skittles... and he very obviously confronted Trayvon - who had been minding his own business. I'd said it before - this changes nothing. Zimmerman stalked him, confronted him, and Trayvon had a right to defend himself from someone who could have been mugging him.

It isn't self-defense if you go out of your way to look for trouble and you threaten someone (yes, stalking someone is threatening them).

100% correct.

Martin initiated the violent confrontation, attacked Zimmerman, gashing the back of his head with something and beating him, and then got his ass shot for his violent thuggery. Zimmerman was on a public street, and violating no law, having the same rights to be on the street as anybody else. Zimmerman's only discernible 'crime' is being the wrong color to suit black racists and their racist apologists. Zimmerman's crime is merely in being hispanic. That's it.

Now some racist idiots on the Diane Rheems show today were saying Zimmerman is supposed to pay for a lynching in a town a few miles away, in 1840, and he's also responsible for the Emmett Till murder. It's hilarious how ridiculous the racists are spinning this.

Yes, hispanics are supposed to avoid being on the same public streets if it offends some black guy.

So, what do people think the ambulance chasers are promising Martin's family for a Big Payday? $20 million? $100 million?

[Truth Teller]

And you know this how?

As GF has pointed out ,Farns likes blacks form Africa but dislikes African-Americans as much he disilkes gays,social liberals and The Beatles.

All we know is that Zimmerman ignored the police dispatcher's instruction to back off

And if Zimmerman had done that, he wouldn't be in this mess.

[jwreck]

Larry, you're still a dumbass.

[jwreck]

Prima facie. One doesn't carry a deadly weapon around unless he foresees a need to use it.

As opposed to the idea that someone is less likely to confront someone they think is armed? Human nature is to avoid being shot. Believe it or not most people don't want to be involved in a gunfight.

[Pho King]

Its very simple - when examining manslaughter, the court will have to decide what factors contributed to the death. The questions of whether Zimmerman was aware of the guidelines or not, and whether he followed them or not (he didn't) will be a major factor under examination. You didn't know this?

M

The "factors (that) contributed to his death" will not be an issue. He was shot, and died from the gunshot wound. The question will be whether there was a justification for the homicide. Knowledge of either police or neighborhood watch guidelines are irrelevant to that determination. There are rules of evidence to follow, and these guidelines do not even pass the very first one. You don't know this?