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Thread: Witness: teen Trayvon attacked Zimmerman and beat him as Zimmerman cried for help

  1. #1
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    Witness: teen Trayvon attacked Zimmerman and beat him as Zimmerman cried for help

    Apparently there was an eyewitness to the whole episode, that ended with teenager Trayvon Martin getting shot by George Zimmerman in a Florida neighborhood. And that eyewitness is telling a very different story from what pundits such as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson (who were not there) are telling us.

    The witness says that he saw the teenager Martin attack Zimmerman and bring him down to the ground; and that Trayvon Martin was on top, beating up on Zimmerman who lay on the ground, yelling for help.

    If what the witness says is true, this could lend a lot more credibility to Zimmerman's statements that he shot to defend himself.

    But this runs against the opinions that many people (including myself) had already formed: That Zimmerman stalked the teenager and shot him as he ran away.

    Since the eyewitness's testimony runs so counter to the conclusions people have already drawn, will the eyewitness testimony be ignored, and people start rioting over the "brutal racial killing" they are so sure happened? When maybe it didn't happen that way at all?

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/new...erman-03232012

    Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

    Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 6:19 PM EDT
    Published : Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 5:47 PM EDT

    ORLANDO - A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.

    The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it all.

    Our sister station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.

    What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.

    The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury.

    It shows more now about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't have gone to jail.

    Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.

    And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.

    But one man's testimony could be key for the police.

    "The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

    Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

    The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.

    His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

    "When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.

    Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen.

    Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting.
    "The social contract exists so that everyone doesn’t have to squat in the dust holding a spear to protect his woman and his meat all day every day. It does not exist so that the government can take your spear, your meat, and your woman because it knows better what to do with them." - Instapundit.com

  2. #2
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    Interesting development.

    In my opinion this does not change the fact that the police displayed racist judgement by not arresting Zimmerman.
    Signs of a struggle do not in any way confirm any truth to Zimmerman's version of the story, and neither does the testimony, in the sense that we still don't know all of what Zimmerman did for the situation to reach the point of physical struggle.

    We do know that he stalked the kid, at night - enough to make anyone - let alone a kid- consider they might be in danger.

    Zimmerman may have pulled his gun on Trayvon before the altercation got physical. Nothing corroborates Zimmerman's claim that he had started to return to his vehicle before the struggle started.

    The fact remains that the police quite simply took his word for it and said 'off you go, you're free'.

    Asides from being poorly written, the article is WAY out of line to suggest this witness somehow does anything to explain why the police did not arrest Zimmerman.

    M

  3. #3
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    Seems to me that you're doing a little speculating yourself.
    My IQ would blow your mind.... I have been asked to join Mensa... I just do not want to pay dues. - Vader

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom&Liberty View Post
    Seems to me that you're doing a little speculating yourself.
    I doubt Malcolm would deny that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm Wright View Post
    Zimmerman may have pulled his gun on Trayvon before the altercation got physical. Nothing corroborates Zimmerman's claim that he had started to return to his vehicle before the struggle started.
    I'm still waiting to find out why he was out of the car, with a gun, confronting a kid for walking to the store, after the cops told him not to, in the first place. At an absolute minimum, Zimmerman is a dick who grabbed a gun, chased down and hassled someone for no reason, after having already been advised not to by the police. There's no way around that much. What turned Zimmerman's armed harassment of an innocent kid into something that required gunfire is still at question, though.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

    "I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!" -- Jerry Falwell

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    Call takers are not police officers.


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    The same shepherd that protects the flock leads them to the slaughterhouse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom&Liberty View Post
    Seems to me that you're doing a little speculating yourself.
    I made one speculation in that post - you're very perceptive!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwreck View Post
    Call takers are not police officers.
    Technically you are right. But as someone volunteering for neighborhood watch for several years, he was perfectly aware of the main guidelines from police regarding his activity, and he knew that the advice the 911 operator gave him was exactly what he would have got from the police.

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    It's apparently a very big deal that Zimmerman followed him. It means he doesn't have immunity under stand your ground... so say the authors of this law.

    Republican state lawmakers in Florida responsible for a controversial 2005 self-defense law said it shouldn't apply to a neighborhood watch volunteer who shot and killed Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old, in February.
    Dennis Baxley, a Republican state representative and co-author of the 2005 self-defense law, said Zimmerman negated his ability to claim immunity under the law by chasing Martin.

    "This law is for innocent, law-abiding citizens who are under attack by a perpetrator," Baxley told The Huffington Post. "Anyone who is out pursuing and confronting people is not protected by this statute."

    "I think they need to go back and read the statute," Baxley said, referring to the Sanford Police Department.

    Former Republican State Sen. Durell Peadon, another co-author of the law, said Zimmerman "has no protection under my law."

    "They need to prosecute whoever shot the kid," Peadon told the Miami Herald on Tuesday.

    Gun rights advocates also question the decision not to charge Zimmerman.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...ef=mostpopular

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lulu View Post
    It's apparently a very big deal that Zimmerman followed him. It means he doesn't have immunity under stand your ground... so say the authors of this law.
    Nor is he claiming any. Instead, he is claiming the right of self-defense. And the eyewitness testimony bears ouut the correctness of the claim.

    Nice try at changing the subject/deflecting the argument.
    "The social contract exists so that everyone doesn’t have to squat in the dust holding a spear to protect his woman and his meat all day every day. It does not exist so that the government can take your spear, your meat, and your woman because it knows better what to do with them." - Instapundit.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
    Nor is he claiming any. Instead, he is claiming the right of self-defense. And the eyewitness testimony bears ouut the correctness of the claim.

    Nice try at changing the subject/deflecting the argument.
    So a guy grabs a gun, chases down a clean cut, bright eyed kid carrying a soda and a box of skittles, he gets out of the car and confronts the kid, who has done nothing wrong at this point -- something happens. We don't know what yet, we just know that the adult with the gun got out of his car and confronted the kid for no reason. Some unknown thing happened, then he shot the kid.

    You're assuming innocence on the gunman's part. Can you tell me what it is about this that makes you automatically side with the gunman?
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

    "I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!" -- Jerry Falwell

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    Witness: teen Trayvon attacked Zimmerman and beat him as Zimmerman cried for help
    The leftist Race Pimps in this country are a complete disgrace, then again most kook leftists are.

    When Zimmerman was not arrested, that ought to have said something. There was more to this case than met the eye. But no. The kook left piles on all kinds of stupid ass bullshit, crying racism, yada, yada. That shit is old.

    Have you kooks ever thought that perhaps SELF DEFENSE just might have played a part?

    Truth be known...Zimmerman is...

    "...a Spanish speaking minority with many black family members and friends. He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever.... The media portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth."

    Some racist.

    I know. You kooks saw the name George Zimmerman, and immediately thought he was a Jew?
    Last edited by DamnYankee; 03-24-2012 at 08:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BooRadley View Post
    So a guy grabs a gun, chases down a clean cut, bright eyed kid carrying a soda and a box of skittles, he gets out of the car and confronts the kid, who has done nothing wrong at this point -- something happens. We don't know what yet, we just know that the adult with the gun got out of his car and confronted the kid for no reason. Some unknown thing happened, then he shot the kid.

    You're assuming innocence on the gunman's part. Can you tell me what it is about this that makes you automatically side with the gunman?
    Are you assuming innocence on the part of the, "clean cut, bright eyed kid carrying a soda and a box of skittles". We do know that Zimmerman had grass all over his back and was bleeding. We also know that an eyewitness confirmed that the kid was hitting Zimmerman. What we don't is when exactly Zimmerman fired his weapon.
    My IQ would blow your mind.... I have been asked to join Mensa... I just do not want to pay dues. - Vader

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom&Liberty View Post
    Are you assuming innocence on the part of the, "clean cut, bright eyed kid carrying a soda and a box of skittles". We do know that Zimmerman had grass all over his back and was bleeding. We also know that an eyewitness confirmed that the kid was hitting Zimmerman. What we don't is when exactly Zimmerman fired his weapon.
    Zimmerman was the aggressor. Maybe the kid responded, we don't know, but since Zimmerman was already grabbing a gun, chasing him down, getting out of his car and confronting him, we already know that Zimmerman was armed and was acting in an aggressive manner.

    Not enough for a conviction, no, but certainly enough for the cops to do an investigation, rather than just dismiss it.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

    "I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!" -- Jerry Falwell

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    Wow, so many presumptions. Is it some kind of sin to just admit that you weren't there and therefore are speculating (talking out your ass) about the details?


    I represent the angry, gun toting meat eating people. ~ Denis Leary

    The same shepherd that protects the flock leads them to the slaughterhouse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm Wright View Post
    Technically you are right. But as someone volunteering for neighborhood watch for several years, he was perfectly aware of the main guidelines from police regarding his activity, and he knew that the advice the 911 operator gave him was exactly what he would have got from the police.
    theyre very quick to Point out that it wasn't a registered neighborhood watch so he may or may not have been aware of their guidelines. Let me be clear, I don't agree with him confronting anyone, but it wasn't illegal.


    I represent the angry, gun toting meat eating people. ~ Denis Leary

    The same shepherd that protects the flock leads them to the slaughterhouse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwreck View Post
    Wow, so many presumptions. Is it some kind of sin to just admit that you weren't there and therefore are speculating (talking out your ass) about the details?
    A lot of your run of the mill leftists believe, and therefore parrot, the line of the day. Sharpton says...Jackson says...and it must be true, hells bells they wouldn't lie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BooRadley View Post
    Zimmerman was the aggressor. Maybe the kid responded, we don't know, but since Zimmerman was already grabbing a gun, chasing him down, getting out of his car and confronting him, we already know that Zimmerman was armed and was acting in an aggressive manner.

    Not enough for a conviction, no, but certainly enough for the cops to do an investigation, rather than just dismiss it.
    They haven't dismissed anything. The investigation is underway...and that now includes local, state, and federal authorities. The locals, the cops at the scene, determined that Zimmerman was not intoxicated, or inebriated, he was clearly injured, and according to eye witness reports there was no immediate reason to arrest him. The truth will come out, I hope....though I'm of the opinion Zimmerman is screwed regardless. He's already been sentenced to death in the court of public opinion. Hell, if I was him, I'd present myself to the local police station, and demand that I be placed into protective custody.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DngrMse View Post
    I'm of the opinion Zimmerman is screwed regardless.
    Unfortunately, that's probably true. I'm convinced he's basically Crazy Trashcan Guy, but this time with a gun and someone died, but I bet the pressure from public outcry means he won't get a fair trial. He may be found guilty just for fear of reprisals ala Rodney King.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

    "I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!" -- Jerry Falwell

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    He might be. I know, along with the rest of you, about 1% of what's actually happened. If I were sitting on his jury, based on all that I know right now, I'd cast my vote to convict the man for manslaughter. That's all...and even that's a stretch. All I have to go on, like everyone else, is sensationalized media reports. Some posters around here seem to think that's all they need. Unfortunately, many public figures, including our own president, seem to think the same way.

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