Pelosi: Obamacare Allows You to Quit Your Job and Become 'Whatever'

[optimus]

And what do you do with people that have little or no fruits to show for their labor? Those self-employed "freelancers" (freeloaders?) that would rather paint and play the day away than get a job that pays all of their bills? Ahhh yes. Those of us that do not entertain such flights of fancy should pay their way, or at least a healthy chunk of it. Got it. But don't be surprised when the makers get a bit mindful of the takers. Its a natural reaction.

^ Retarded hyperbole.

Other countries can do it, why can't we? Because our health care system is a fucking racket and corrupt as hell, but that's another topic.

[Pho King]

^non-responsive liberal flatulence.

[optimus]

No, it's a valid point. If CANADA can do it, we should be able to. This is CANADA we're talking about here...Come on!

[Pho King]

No, it's a valid point. If CANADA can do it, we should be able to. This is CANADA we're talking about here...Come on!

What is Canada's population again? How much does it spend on defense? And ultimately, who cares about Canada?

[optimus]

That's your rebuttal?

[Pho King]

That's your rebuttal?

yes. my rebuttal to "Canada does this or that " is "so what?"

[soylentgreen]

^ Retarded hyperbole.

Other countries can do it, why can't we? Because our health care system is a fucking racket and corrupt as hell, but that's another topic.

What kinds of taxes do they pay in Canada and Europe to finance their systems?

[soylentgreen]

They just want healthcare to be more accessible to people who have historically had a hard time getting and paying for it, self employed freelancers, photographers, writers, artists, etc. To me that's a positive thing. A person's worthiness for health insurance is not determined by their chosen profession.

Everybody should have health insurance in this country. I don't give a fuck if some republican scumbags don't like it. (Not you specifically.)

Everybody should have a lot of things. I have no issue with provisions that bar insurance companies from dropping people after they get sick and disqualifying people with pre-existing conditions. What I have an issue with is the House Minority Leader encouraging people to quit their jobs to pursue their dreams when what they should be doing is producing something of value. I'll say it again...this country will die if we don't get it out of our heads that we need to compete with the world in making things of value. Very little money is generated from photography, painting, poetry, music.

[optimus]

It's not your job to worry about whether they produce something valuable or not. Having health insurance covered doesn't put food on the table or pay rent. The marketplace will let them know very fast whether they are producing something people want or not.

And I have to correct you on your last statement, quite a lot of money is generated from those things. Photography can be very lucrative, even if you only produce stock photos. Those guys can make a very good living doing that. Corporations always need stock photographs for marketing, same thing with marketing firms. Pro photographers like Peter Lik make millions. Painting is pretty hit or miss, but the ones that hit, hit fucking HUGE. Poetry, not so much...but writers can make serious coin. Not so much for books, but for other things like copywriting for example. An A list copywriter can make 40-50K for beating a control for a major mailer, plus royalties. Music is hard, but the savvy ones are starting to make very good money even if they aren't on a major label. They license their music to marketing firms and make royalties that way, sell on itunes, they make money via youtube partners, etc. Turns out that music is an awesome medium for advertising, whoda thunk it.

All of those things are very important for society. The arts make life worth living, their function is different from something like manufacturing or engineering. They aren't less important, just different. American culture tends to devalue the arts, but this isn't the case in other countries.

[optimus]

What kinds of taxes do they pay in Canada and Europe to finance their systems?

They pay higher taxes. But their attitude is different, they see it as helping each other out.

[Powerboss]

No, it's a valid point. If CANADA can do it, we should be able to. This is CANADA we're talking about here...Come on!

Actually, Canada is moving towards private healthcare as well. A relative was told she would have to wait 18 months for her MRI so they hopped in a car, drove to Quebec, paid cash, got the MRI done, and now knows it wasn't cancer.

Shortages, waiting lists and rationing is what you get in Canada.

[antiquity]

Actually, Canada is moving towards private healthcare as well. A relative was told she would have to wait 18 months for her MRI so they hopped in a car, drove to Quebec, paid cash, got the MRI done, and now knows it wasn't cancer.

Shortages, waiting lists and rationing is what you get in Canada.

Canada has had private hospitals since almost day one of their national health care was enacted into law.

[Vader]

Everybody should have a lot of things. I have no issue with provisions that bar insurance companies from dropping people after they get sick and disqualifying people with pre-existing conditions. What I have an issue with is the House Minority Leader encouraging people to quit their jobs to pursue their dreams when what they should be doing is producing something of value. I'll say it again...this country will die if we don't get it out of our heads that we need to compete with the world in making things of value. Very little money is generated from photography, painting, poetry, music.

Why does people, NOT BUSINESS, getting opportunity, bother you so much? Are you trying to say only weathly scumbag republithieves should have these opportunities?

[hadit]

Why does people, NOT BUSINESS, getting opportunity, bother you so much? Are you trying to say only weathly scumbag republithieves should have these opportunities?

How much are you giving?

[Zordar]

It's not your job to worry about whether they produce something valuable or not. Having health insurance covered doesn't put food on the table or pay rent. The marketplace will let them know very fast whether they are producing something people want or not.

And I have to correct you on your last statement, quite a lot of money is generated from those things. Photography can be very lucrative, even if you only produce stock photos. Those guys can make a very good living doing that. Corporations always need stock photographs for marketing, same thing with marketing firms. Pro photographers like Peter Lik make millions. Painting is pretty hit or miss, but the ones that hit, hit fucking HUGE. Poetry, not so much...but writers can make serious coin. Not so much for books, but for other things like copywriting for example. An A list copywriter can make 40-50K for beating a control for a major mailer, plus royalties. Music is hard, but the savvy ones are starting to make very good money even if they aren't on a major label. They license their music to marketing firms and make royalties that way, sell on itunes, they make money via youtube partners, etc. Turns out that music is an awesome medium for advertising, whoda thunk it.

All of those things are very important for society. The arts make life worth living, their function is different from something like manufacturing or engineering. They aren't less important, just different. American culture tends to devalue the arts, but this isn't the case in other countries.

I actually agree with Soylent Green's sentiment, but you make a lot of really good points here.

And don't forget sound effects and stock music libraries. You'll never get rich going down that path, but you can definitely pay your bills and put food on the table.

That being said, while there is nothing but demand for high-end, talented artists, there is a much larger supply of hacks and wannabes than is needed, and it's gotten so bad with the 20-40 urban set, I do consider it a societal problem. "Follow your dreams, my sweet, special snowflake" should be replaced with "If you show signs of not sucking, I'll give you a few years to start making a living -- otherwise, it's to the shale mines with you."

[Zordar]

They pay higher taxes. But their attitude is different, they see it as helping each other out.

Gross.

I don't want to help my neighbors, I want to buy their lands from them at a low price. And once owned, if they do not fight for me, I will throw them off my land and starve their wives and their children.

[soylentgreen]

It's not your job to worry about whether they produce something valuable or not.

I'd agree with you if we weren't talking about a 2500 page piece of legislation that gets government involved in making everyone subsidize healthcare for non-producers. If there was no Obamacare, you're right...it's not my business. But, as long as we're talking about government action to help this group or that, it's the business of every American.

Having health insurance covered doesn't put food on the table or pay rent. The marketplace will let them know very fast whether they are producing something people want or not.

Pelosi is encouraging people to quit their jobs and pursue these dreams. I'm all for going after the dream...but as I said...why not work your "art" on evenings and weekends? Then you can find out if the marketplace wants what you're selling before you put all your eggs in that basket.

And I have to correct you on your last statement, quite a lot of money is generated from those things.

I never denied that. What I said is 99.99% of the people who want to make a living at photography, painting, poetry, music, etc will never make it. It's like saying we're going to help people quit their jobs so they can pursue the dream of a professional baseball career. 99.99% will never make it. That's the point.

Pro photographers like Peter Lik make millions.

An extremely rare case.

Poetry, not so much...but writers can make serious coin.

What's stopping a great writer from doing his writing for a company...or doing it on evenings and weekends until he can make good money at it?

Turns out that music is an awesome medium for advertising, whoda thunk it.

Again, how many people have the talents to do this? Very very few.

All of those things are very important for society.

I never denied that. I do actually enjoy music and art. I just don't think we should be encouraging people with no talent to pursue their "dream" when they will never have a chance to make it. A good friend of mine is a poet. She's had works published worldwide. But, she still works as a teacher. This is a reasonale approach.

The arts make life worth living, their function is different from something like manufacturing or engineering. They aren't less important, just different. American culture tends to devalue the arts, but this isn't the case in other countries.

Bullshit. America does value art. One thing that America kicks the world's ass in is exporting movies, music, entertainment. The point is, very very few people are successful in those trades all on their own. What's wrong with working as a graphic designer for a firm? A lot of "artist" types feel that's "selling out". Their art is too important for that. Well, I say they need to be a little less self-important and WORK like the rest of us.