Did Anything in The Old Testament Exist

[antiquity]

I chose to work in America as of right now, I'm still a citizen of Israel regardless WHERE I live.

That is not the answer to my question. Why do you chose to work in the US? Is it because of your brand of 'music' is not popular in Israel? In stead of only 200 groupies you get her to listen to your music you would only get 20 Jews groupies with beanie caps to listen to your music in Israel?

My father's work situation, when I was 14.

So what you are saying you stayed in the US because you didn't want to serve in the Zionist army.

You don't "think", you just talk out of your ass.

Doesn't change the fact you are a self absorbing phoney.

[antiquity]

Why don't you move to David Duke's house?

Lots of people there who share your bigotry.

Personally,I think you are a jerk.

Is your name Ganja or are you Ganja sock puppet?

[antiquity]

Current FACTS indicate zionists do not want to co-exist with mankind, hence their own separate country and the international organizations necessary to support it.

But let's get back to the mythology upon which zionism is based.

You mean the fact Moses wander around the desert for 37 years before he found out he was an idiot who could take directions from, no doubt, a women.

[Cyclone Ranger]

Notwithstanding that your link is a bit hit-and-miss on some points

Such as?

neither you or your link addressed the paper I cited. I suppose that means you've got nothing.

You suppose incorrectly. The point is that as per Karsh, Morris has a demonstrable lack of credibility as a documentarian.

I'm not quoting those, so that's irrelevant to this discussion.

Morris' credibility in citing and interpreting documentary sources is pivotal to the discussion, since he's the only one who's seen them.

Bullshit; terrorism means “the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes”, which precisely defines 1940s Jewish terrorism (which, by the way, killed civilians and at least 1 British politician anyway).

As of 2012, there is no internationally accepted definition of terrorism, or in international law.

Some sources would consider the Irgun's assault on the British mandatory authority to be legitimate national struggle for self-determination because civilians were not targeted, regardless of whether there was collateral civilian loss of life, while some would not.

I also notice you evaded talking about an armed force torturing child prisoners, why is that?

Already discussed in another thread, and I have nothing to add.

That's central, and also a lie. What other Zionist claims for Israel are there, out of interest?

My ass, it's a lie.

The Ottomans invited the Jews into Palestine to settle before the First Aliyah, where they irrigated the land and drained off malarial swamps, and generally built themselves the second Jewish homeland, the Yishuv. The British overseers recognized that in the Balfour Declaration, and the UNGA with 181

All of that constitutes claims to the territory.

I'd want to get rid of Jews and Jewish rights too if I'd been brought up under the Israeli occupation, in a land where the economy is flatlining chiefly because of the occupation, knowing all the while that my parent's generation had been forced to flee and their property appropriated by that same country. In short: this mentality has been brought about by descrimination and separation, and a dose of the opposite is the only thing that can cure it (IMHO).

One, most chose to flee. Only a few were forced. The Haganah hardly had the manpower to drive out 500,000 people in a few weeks.

Two, it doesn't matter what they want. Their desires don't outweigh Israeli sovereignty, or justify their terroristic means.

Well, I'm glad you can now identify what my argument actually was. Yet I still think you're wrong: Israel/Palestine is not the Jewish homeland.

Nope, international law says Israel is the Jewish homeland, so that's what it is.

Three doors down from me is one Jewish homelands -the USA, France, Spain are all homelands, and you could name two dozen more at least. Israel is overwhelmingly the homeland for Jews who emigrated there, and can only be considered a homeland for current Israelis and Palestinians. It must not be a homeland for all Jews who feel like they already own it and have to return to their property, because that's simply false.

That is an idiotic argument, based on a ridiculous definition of the concept of a homeland. All Egyptians do not need to live in Egypt for Egypt to be considered the Egyptian homeland, nor do all Jews need to reside in Israel for it to be considered the Jewish homeland.

What, that nations should make no law regarding religion? I knew you were condescending, hypocritical and deceitful, but I didn't until now realise you were actually stupid. I think two things are significant here: first of all that you don't realise it isn't just 'my' political philosophy, but second of all that because of that you dry to whitewash it as 'lame', as though that might make me feel bad.

There is no compelling reason nations should not make any law regarding religion. All nations do not have to be the United States.

Oh, just about every archaeological, anthropological and sociological book since the 1980s

Evidence?

,

although the philosophical underpinnings of it took place in the 1960s (being an idiot, however, you'd probably describe modern ideas about social construction 'lame' or something like that). You can read a passable description of it here, or try books about society by Bruno Latour or any other Actor-Network Theorist.

Sorry, but not everyone - or even every expert on sociology or anthropology - accepts post-structuralist ideas about culture and ethnicity. They are certainly not binding on the international community as policy guidance.

This is something I've discussed with you before (I say discussed -you pay little attention to what I write), and succinctly covered by Richard Falk's article on the subject.

It's his bullshit opinion as an anti-Zionist pro-Palestine. All Israeli citizens have equal rights regardless of ethnicity, no matter how he wishes to slice it. Nor, for that matter, does his rhetoric of race have any relevance, given the fact that the Israelis and Palestinians have no immutable differences.

Also, how's the Palestinian right of return issue going? Are they back yet? How many Jews immigrated since 1948 in comparison?

The Palestinians have no right to return to Israel. They have a right to a separate national state in the West Bank and Gaza, but no right to live in Israel.

There absolutely is in terms of religion, as I've just discussed, and Zionist cultural norms exclude Palestinians (both in terms of heritage, the concept of the 'Jewish' nation and physically through the appropriation of property), which is clearly unacceptable. A national culture that discriminates on ethnic and racial grounds is indistinguishable from apartheid.

Only if Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Dubai, Iran, are all "racist" states because they exclude non-Arabs based on their status as Arab and Muslim homelands, as they are explicitly defined in their charters.

Israel, however, excludes none of its citizens. All have equal rights, unlike any other nation in the region.

My bullshit philosophy that states that one racial/ethnic group should not throttle another to death? And also, I was referring to the period immediately before (and for a long period even during) the Zionist immigration to Palestine, where Jews were a minority group. Thus your comment about Jews being the majority much later on is irrelevant.

No one is throttling the Palestinians to death, except the Palestinians. If they give up their terrorist onslaught against the Israelis, they will get a sovereign nation in the West Bank and Gaza, and become a viable political and economic entity. If they don't, they will spend all eternity under Israel's thumb. It's up to them.

Nor does it matter what the population picture was in 1900. What matters is what exists on the ground now.

Evidence?

Palestinian leaders like the Grand Mufti refused to even guarantee the physical safety of Jews after Palestinian, and Arab leaders like Azzam Pasha said things like:

"Personally I hope the Jews do not force us into this war because it will be a war of elimination and it will be a dangerous massacre which history will record similarly to the Mongol massacre or the wars of the Crusades. I think the number of volunteers from outside Palestine will exceed the Palestinian population."

I've already shown that it was indeed promised before the Balfour declaration, and that Palestinians considered themselves a national group at the start of the 20th century. Simply reasserting your own arguments without evidence in the face of mine, sadly, constitutes only an moronic argument.

You didn't show either. You just opened your mouth and said it, utterly falsely.

First, here is a source about Britian's promise:

During 1915-16, as World War I was underway, the British High Commissioner in Egypt, Sir Henry McMahon, secretly corresponded with Husayn ibn `Ali, the patriarch of the Hashemite family and Ottoman governor of Mecca and Medina. McMahon convinced Husayn to lead an Arab revolt against the Ottoman Empire, which was aligned with Germany against Britain and France in the war. McMahon promised that if the Arabs supported Britain in the war, the British government would support the establishment of an independent Arab state under Hashemite rule in the Arab provinces of the Ottoman Empire, including Palestine.

http://www.merip.org/palestine-israe...isr-prime.html

Again, Britain's promise to create an Arab state was made to the Hashemites, not the Palestinians, and did not include an independent Palestine.

Next, that the Palestinians did not believe they were an independent national group is evident from the statements made by Palestinian leaders in Jerusalem in 1919:

We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds. The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity."

http://focusonjerusalem.com/catastrophe.html

Similar remarks were made by Arab leaders to the Crane King Commission, such as future PLO chairman Ahmed Shuqeiri: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."

Competing national identities that would have been dissolved had Yugoslavia ever been a rich enough country to modernise itself sufficiently (like Britain and France did in the 19th century).

Evidence? Exactly the opposite happened in Sudan and Lebanon. There is no evidence national identities and associated conflicts dissolve with industrialization, otherwise the Basque would have assimilated into France.

I've not made up any facts, and your inability to be more specific is telling. As for questionable sources, I'll come to that in a minute. And as for “ignoring requests for evidence”, I've taken the liberty of finding every single instance of you demanding evidence in this thread and checking the response I gave:

And you gave no evidence to support your claims in many instances.

This makes hilarious reading in light of this gem:
Cyclone Ranger 2268391: It's not at all racist. In fact, it has nothing to do with race. You're simply using the word "racist" as a term of abuse to make your screeds more melodramatic.

All of which remains completely unrefuted by you.

They considered it as a viable option, as Bauman has shown. How seriously considered it was is therefore not relevant.

It was summarily rejected by Heydrich. Moreover, Madagascar could hardly have absorbed four million Jews, so it would have constituted annihilation of them.

I'd argue that it had more to do with disproportionate responses and targeting hundreds of thousands of innocent people than who declared war on whom. But then again I haven't swallowed Israeli propaganda.

You could argue it, but you'd be wrong.

[Šñøü†ê®]

You mean the fact Moses wander around the desert for 37 years before he found out he was an idiot who could take directions from, no doubt, a women.

It is interesting to attempt to ascertain how Moses, a mythical character who allegedly was a murderer and plagiarized the 10 Commandments, happened to meet up with Yahweh. Apparently, upon meeting the Kenite woman he wanted to marry, the Kenite tribe had a fierce mountain deity called Yahweh. So if we look for more symbolism in the mythology, Yahweh represents some sort of sexual manifestation. This is especially consistent with the genital mutilation that Yahweh required to make the contract with the 12 tribes of Israel. The mythology of mankind usually does distill down to some primitive sexual rite so it might be interesting to sort through everything. My guess is the "burning bush" does not represent the female archetype though since that slang is more recent...I think!

[Cyclone Ranger]

^ So much stupidity, so little time.

[Šñøü†ê®]

^Burning in the bush alert!

[GanjaFreebird]

Current FACTS indicate zionists do not want to co-exist with mankind, hence their own separate country and the international organizations necessary to support it.

But let's get back to the mythology upon which zionism is based.

"mankind" murdered 6 millions of them in a short amount of time, including your grandma and other relatives, so we figured after 2,000 years of suffering and being treated like shit by "mankind", we should have our own country. It works well so far too.

[GanjaFreebird]

That is not the answer to my question. Why do you chose to work in the US?

Because I have enough connections here and I know where to find work anytime I need to.

Is it because of your brand of 'music' is not popular in Israel? In stead of only 200 groupies you get her to listen to your music you would only get 20 Jews groupies with beanie caps to listen to your music in Israel?

I may be playing some shows in Israel by next year, and yes, there will be MUCH more than 200 people there if it happens.

So what you are saying you stayed in the US because you didn't want to serve in the Zionist army.

I stayed in the US for many reasons, but I didn't serve in the army because I'm not good at that kind of stuff. Some people gets jobs as soldiers, other get jobs as musicians, the army is not for everybody, just like any other job.

Doesn't change the fact you are a self absorbing phoney.

Evidence?

[GanjaFreebird]

David Duke? Is he a Jew by any chance?

No, are you?

[Cyclone Ranger]

^Burning in the bush alert!

^ One in the Hand Alert!

[jwreck]

^Burning in the bush alert!

penicillan can help with that.

[antiquity]

Because I have enough connections here and I know where to find work anytime I need to.

Is it because in Israel they don't have medical marijuana laws?

I may be playing some shows in Israel by next year, and yes, there will be MUCH more than 200 people there if it happens.

Only if you lead off for some other band.

I stayed in the US for many reasons, but I didn't serve in the army because I'm not good at that kind of stuff. Some people gets jobs as soldiers, other get jobs as musicians, the army is not for everybody, just like any other job.

I can understand that, in Israel they have mandatory military and I am sure you would probably wash out of that.

Evidence?

Why are you confused? You being a star in your own mind.

[Cyclone Ranger]

penicillan can help with that.

No, but penicillin will.

[GanjaFreebird]

Is it because in Israel they don't have medical marijuana laws?

There is no war on marijuana in Israel AT ALL. Everybody smokes and nobody gets arrested for that unless one is selling huge amounts, so no, that's not an issue at all. In fact, the hash is SO much better there too!

I can understand that, in Israel they have mandatory military and I am sure you would probably wash out of that.

It wasn't mandatory for me, as I was living in the US since I was 13-14. Also, even if I tried to serve in the military, they would most likely not accept me (I couldn't pass most of those physical tests, I was never good at running, or most sports other than swimming) and if they did, I wouldn't be in the battle zone anyways.

Why are you confused?

I'm not, you are.

You being a star in your own mind.

I'm not a "star" in my own mind, however, I am good enough at what I do to make a living and make people happy with my music, so that's all that matters as far as I'm concerned!

[Šñøü†ê®]

I'm not a "star" in my own mind, however, I am good enough at what I do to make a living and make people happy with my music, so that's all that matters as far as I'm concerned.

MEH NEEGAH, EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT UNLESS YOU ARE A TOURING MUSICIAN OR IN A WEDDING BAND THAT IS BOOKED ALL YEAR, YOU ARE NOT EVEN MAKING WHAT A MANAGER AT A MC'DONALD'S MAKES SO STOP KIDDING YOURSELF THAT ANYONE BELIEVES YOUR BULLSHIT! FEEL FREE TO POST ANY EVIDENCE OTHERWISE YOU LYING, UKRANIAN CHUMP!

Now before we discuss Ancient Israel's wars against their neighbors, lets review stuff like the "parting of the Red Sea" and determine if that really happened.

[hadit]

Now before we discuss Ancient Israel's wars against their neighbors, lets review stuff like the "parting of the Red Sea" and determine if that really happened.

That could have happened with the only miraculous part of it being the timing (which is miraculous enough). A simple, strong wind blowing in the right direction (which the Bible states happened), would have pushed the water off a shallow bar stretching across the sea, making passage possible. The wind stops, the water comes back, drowning the persuers. That bar is still there, if you bother to look.

[Guido]

That could have happened with the only miraculous part of it being the timing (which is miraculous enough). A simple, strong wind blowing in the right direction (which the Bible states happened), would have pushed the water off a shallow bar stretching across the sea, making passage possible. The wind stops, the water comes back, drowning the persuers. That bar is still there, if you bother to look.

This is the 21st century -- nutjob.

Humanity is doomed. Primitive thinking of the sort on display above will soon make the earth uninhabitable. Luckily, I won't be around to see it.

[hadit]

This is the 21st century -- nutjob.

Humanity is doomed. Primitive thinking of the sort on display above will soon make the earth uninhabitable. Luckily, I won't be around to see it.

Father Sarducci, you have completely lost touch with reality. This is a thread about stuff that happened a long time ago. I'm surprised that you give modern science such short shrift, but to each his own I guess.

[Šñøü†ê®]

Okay, we got a burning bush and a parting of the Red Sea. Can anyone guess what the "red sea" represents in the overall fertility rite involved with this kind of mythology?