Did Anything in The Old Testament Exist

[Šñøü†ê®]

We have psychopaths from all four corners of the Earth claiming they are the ancient Israelites. Black folk, White folk, Russian folk. Is there ANY evidence for Israelites? Noah's Ark? The Ark of the Covenant? The Garden of Eden? ANYTHING in the Old Testament?

[BooRadley]

Noah's ark was a story from early Babylon, from the Epic of Gilgamesh (sp?). I think the garden is basically just pre-civilization. The towers of babel existed. I think most of it's folk lore, though. It's 2,000 - 3,700 years old. You can't expect the telephone game to go on that long without being a little whacked.

[Archaix]

The archaeological evidence for Kingdom of David is scant, but there is evidence of greater centralised power in present day Israel-Palestine through simultaneous city growth and urban defences at around the supposed time of his rule. There's also an inscription on an ancient rock (the Tel Dan Stele) that says 'DWD', which some people think means 'David' and other people think means something else. Personally, I think he must have existed in some form and got passed into legend, like King Arthur or Robin Hood.

[queenlillian1962]

Jericho exsists cause I've been there.

[Cyclone Ranger]

Some aspects of the OT have been verified via archeology, but many have not. One problem: the ancient Jews were nomads, and didn't build the type of permanent dwellings archeologists dig up.

[GanjaFreebird]

We have psychopaths from all four corners of the Earth claiming they are the ancient Israelites. Black folk, White folk, Russian folk. Is there ANY evidence for Israelites? Noah's Ark? The Ark of the Covenant? The Garden of Eden? ANYTHING in the Old Testament?

Oh yeah, the historical stuff about the Jewish people is true, it's the miracles and the supernatural stuff that are a matter of one's religion, but yes, Snouter, to answer your question, you are a Hebrew, accept that biological fact and get over it.

[Archaix]

Some aspects of the OT have been verified via archeology, but many have not. One problem: the ancient Jews were nomads, and didn't build the type of permanent dwellings archeologists dig up.

And there's no way of proving that people in the Levant referred to as 'Jews' in the OT described themselves as such, either.

[GanjaFreebird]

And there's no way of proving that people in the Levant referred to as 'Jews' in the OT described themselves as such, either.

What do you mean? Obviously my (and Snouter's) ancestors practiced Judaism.

[Cyclone Ranger]

Jew is short for Yahweh. There is certainly evidence they practiced the religion of Yahweh, but that wasn't the same as modern Judaism.

[jwreck]

The pseudointellectualism of Moe and Curly on prominent display in this thread.

[Archaix]

What do you mean? Obviously my (and Snouter's) ancestors practiced Judaism.

Not being a believer, I think the ethnic group (and later race) came together first. However, how they defined themselves and t what extent they were a discrete cultural unit is debatable. After all, historians and archaeologists now reckon the 'Romans' weren't a coherent cultural unit, either, but full of jealousies, differences and tensions.

[GanjaFreebird]

Of course just like everybody else, the Hebrew tribes have disagreed within themselves, but hey, we're still all Hebrews here, and yes, Judaism is our religion indeed and has been for thousands of years. If you don't believe me, feel free to visit Israel and take a look at the archeological and historical evidence.

[Archaix]

I'd like to do that at some point, preferably when everyone's CTFO for a while. While Jews and Judaism have been around for thousands of years, I'd urge caution on anything beyond about 500BC.

[Cyclone Ranger]

The pseudointellectualism of Moe and Curly on prominent display in this thread.

The non-intellectualism of jWreck has garnered yet more prominence.

[GanjaFreebird]

I'd like to do that at some point, preferably when everyone's CTFO for a while. While Jews and Judaism have been around for thousands of years, I'd urge caution on anything beyond about 500BC.

True, but you'd be surprised how much historical evidence you're going to find.

[Šñøü†ê®]

Some aspects of the OT have been verified via archeology, but many have not. One problem: the ancient Jews were nomads, and didn't build the type of permanent dwellings archeologists dig up.

Cowpunk, name one piece of evidence that proves something specific in the Old Testament.

Also, in which book did the ancient Israelites stop becoming nomads and settle in Palestine, and actually go to war with Judah?

Oh yeah, the historical stuff about the Jewish people is true,

Gangapunk, name one piece of evidence that proves something specific in the Old Testament.

Jew is short for Yahweh.

That lie is almost as funny as your Paul was not from Judah lie.

There is certainly evidence they practiced the religion of Yahweh, but that wasn't the same as modern Judaism.

The tribes of Isreal had the religious tribes were Benjamin and Judah if I recall, those were the evil ones who crucified Jesus. But yes, the Talmudic cult you guys are involved in was invented by some racist weirdos and is not consistent with even the Old Testament.

Not being a believer, I think the ethnic group (and later race) came together first.

Since nobody's family tree goes back farther than a few hundred years, the question is when did this racial group first adopt the middle east folklore and why.

If all the ancient texts were not destroyed, maybe there was some book about Atlantians and how the island of Atlantis will rise out of the sea in 2012 and all Atlantians will have massive amounts of sex and stuff with broads who know how to party. Wouldn't some folks who like to party naturally want to co-opt this Atlantian identity?

In contrast, another approach is to co-opt a cult idea that shows their deity is angry with them and has punished them and cast them out among the humanoids. But they have to stick together because at some point in the future their savior will destroy their enemies, because the deity who created them and all their problems and hates them actually has chosen them? Clearly that deity has major mental issues does he not?

True, but you'd be surprised how much historical evidence you're going to find.

Gangapunk, name one piece of evidence that proves something specific in the Old Testament.

[Cyclone Ranger]

I'm not Cowpunk.

[GanjaFreebird]

Gangapunk, name one piece of evidence that proves something specific in the Old Testament.

Snouter, stop pretending that your parents didn't take you to historical places/museums while in Jerusalem, where there's all kind of evidence of the kingdoms of King David and King Shlomo, including ruins of the first (as well as the second) Temple, which was built at the time.

Again, you don't have to believe in the miracles and all of the supernatural stuff in the Torah, or even in God or His relationship with the Jewish people, in order to accept historical and archeological facts. The Jewish civilization in Eretz Israel isn't a matter of a debate, it's a proven historical/biological fact which is beyond any religion. Just because I don't believe in Native American Gods or Greek/Roman Gods, doesn't mean that their civilization didn't exist.

Now, since you must be so smart, I assume you can find some Islamic/Arabic stuff in Israel that's older than a few hundred years, or that Prophet Mo ever been to Israel, other than in his dreams (probably after too much opium in the hookah).

[GanjaFreebird]

That lie is almost as funny as your Paul was not from Judah lie.

Well, Snouter, it's very true indeed that Paul Simon is of the same ethnicity as you are. I'm a big fan of "Graceland", I think it's a great album, you agree?

As for the schyzophrenic christian dude, yeah, he was probably ethnically Jewish too, but who the fuck cares anyways.

Now, allow me to give you a Hebrew lesson (you know, the language you were speaking during your bar-mitzvah):

In Hebrew, a Jew is "Yehudi", and Judah is "Yehuda". Considering it's very close to God's Hebrew name, it's easy to assume that Yaakov/Jacob/Israel named his son in honor of God.

Since nobody's family tree goes back farther than a few hundred years, the question is when did this racial group first adopt the middle east folklore and why.

I would give the possibility of your family converting to Judaism hundreds of years ago a small chance, if it wasn't for your huge Jewish nose. But yeah, you are a Hebrew, and the reason why your family believe in Judaism is because...well, I don't know, maybe they can relate to it and they value their history and culture, or maybe because they are too intelligent to believe in any other organized religion, either way, God bless them.

[antiquity]

Of course just like everybody else, the Hebrew tribes have disagreed within themselves, but hey, we're still all Hebrews here, and yes, Judaism is our religion indeed and has been for thousands of years. If you don't believe me, feel free to visit Israel and take a look at the archeological and historical evidence.

your right! They had a disagreement about which way to go when they reach the Sinai and it them and Moses 37 years to reach an agreement which way to the promise land which was only about 100 mile or so trip as the crow flies or as they say in desert, the camels travels.