DID the mythological 12 tribes of Israel have BArmitzfas? Or is that a Yiddish thing you Russians came up with at some point! I cannot find evidence of BArmitzfas in the Bible.
Russians don't speak Yiddish and most of them are Orthodox Christians, so they don't celebrate bar-mitzvah.Or is that a Yiddish thing you Russians came up with at some point!
And to answer your question, ALL Jewish people celebrate that, including Russian Jews, Ethiopean Jews, Sephardic Jews, and yes, even Dutch Jews such as your family.
Your point?I cannot find evidence of BArmitzfas in the Bible.
2. If that's the case, then you might want to tell the Palestinian "refugees" to get over it, even the few who really do have families that lived there before the Zionists came. If your logic applies to the Jews, it should apply to others too.
And that still didn't prevent the Jewish immigrants from building that beautiful country with their own hands. You're right, nobody really did give a fuck about this land until WE turned it into something good, but why should anybody take advantage of OUR hard work?It was a 'shithole' because of centuries of colonisation and under-investment.
No, hundreds of thousands were advised by the Arab countries to leave when they realized they couldn't destroy Israel, and the few thousands who WERE driven out by Israel...well, again, that happened because the Arabs attacked us from all sides when they couldn't accept the international law and UN's resolutions. It's not MY problem.There were Palestinians who sold land to Jews, and that (to me) is fine -but hundreds of thousands were driven out because of the insane belief that we are responsible for our ancestors and need to relive the 7th century.
If Native Americans moved to USA from Mexico or Canada AFTER the Europeans built a civilization there, there would be an argument, but they didn't, they were already there before Whites came there. Same with Australia.Exactly the same arguments used against the Native Americans of the USA and aborigines of Australia, and exactly as arrogant and false.
Now, in Israel/Palestine, there were ALWAYS Jews living there, and the entire population was less than 400,000 (including most of today's Jordan) before the Zionist immigrants came and did something with that land. And they attacked us even after UN gave them most of that land, just because they can't stand the ideal of the Jewish people having ANY kind of a country there, not even a square inch. WTF.
I care about my brothers and sisters, not my enemies, who I will continue to hate for as long as they chose to behave this way. When they agree to a REAL two peace solution: a Jewish state and a Palestinian state, that's when I might change my mind about them.It should be your problem. You should give a shit.
Not only there's nothing wrong with Zionism, but to me as a Jew, there's almost nothing as important as the existence of Israel as a Jewish state because it's an essential part of Jewish self-determination, and that's something that I will NEVER ever compromise on, and most Israelis will NEVER compromise on!There's either something wrong with you or you're deeply in denial if you see no wrong in Zionism.
Because Israel isn't trying to own the entire biblical Israel (which includes almost all of Jordan, half of Lebanon and Syria, some Iraq, and most of Egypt). We are even willing to compromise on the entire Judeah and Shomron, which includes cities such as Hebron that mean so much to us. I have family that lived in Hebron for hundreds if not thousands of years, myself.No, you support Greater Germany because classically Germania covered all of Central and a great deal of Eastern Europe. The Slavish settlement of the latter is an imposition and attack on the historical Germanic peoples, (in your mind) rightfully addressed by the Third Reich. Prove to me how that is dissimilar to Israel.
The most you guys will ever get out of us is what Barak offered in 2000, because if WE can't have our country, then neither will anybody else.
Would you rather be "right" and get the world involved in a nuclear war or would you accept Israel's existence and take what you can get? You will NOT convince the Israelis to accept your opinions, they've already tried it for 2,000 years, it doesn't work for us. We will NOT give our entire country to the Arabs, that won't be happening.Doesn't make it right.
CR is right!!
The tradition of bar mitzvah belongs to the modern era of congregational Judaism that began with the Pharisees, and may only date back to the middle ages. As far as we know, it wasn't practiced while the Temple of Jerusalem stood.
You also don't mention that around '47/'48 the UN proposed two states,one Arab(Palestinian) ,one Jewish ,and the Jews agreed to it,but it was the Palestinians who said "No" ,it's obvous the reason they said "No" was because they hoped their Arab neighbors would push Israel in the sea, and then they would have it all for themselfs.
Also,moments after Israel became a state, Goldia Meir went on the radio said said to Israel's Arab neighbors that Israel reached out to them in peace.
Again,the Arabs refused Israel's olive branch.
It is difficult for any decent person to sit back and not comment on the anti-Semitism,racism ,sexism ,and all-around ignorance espoused on the majority of DA's posts,it's fucking sad when one gets a warning for simply being a decent person.
And go ahead and call it a 'socialist' state too.
For one, there were no Israelis during British rule. Israel didn't exist yet.that Israelis undertook terrorist action themselves against British rule in order to get what they want
Some stateless Jewish refugees like the Irgun took terroristic actions against the British overseers....but the British soldiers were not civilians, the Irgun did not have any official government sanction, and the Irgun's objectives were to open up immigration for Holocaust victims after the release of the White Paper.
Debatable. There was no Israeli intelligence network during the War of Independence, and the only historian to claim such an item existed in the IDF's archives is the 'New Historian' Benny Morris.Israeli Intelligence considered their actions to be the major cause of Palestinian exodus.
Most historians - including Morris himself - state that the Palestinian Exodus was simply caused by their desire to flee an active war zone, the direct urging of the Arab League itself, and their belief that Jordan would make short work of the apparently outgunned new Israeli state.
Given the numerous historical errors you made in just the above paragraph, I have every right to condescend to you.Maybe instead of being a condescending fuckwit and employing the usual programme of arrogance, Israeli exceptionalism and deflection you could try and do what no DA zionist has so far managed to do: address the points sensibly.
For one, your claim that self-determination is based on some concept of "historical ethnic ownership" is false. Palestine was an unincorporated territory in the Ottoman Empire prior to the UN Mandate, not a sovereign "Palestinian" nation.No, they didn't.
I've not seen any evidence from your side that they do, outside of crackpot claims about the 7th century and the Roman occupation.
The Jews created their own de facto homeland in Palestine after the Ottomans invited them to emigrate their, which the British recognized with the Balfour Declaration and the UN with UNGA 181. The Arabs didn't have a right to ethnic rule over all of Palestine just because they had a numerical majority, crushing minority rights.
Next, the bit about the Roman occupation and the existence of a historical Jewish homeland in Palestine is not "crackpot," but mainstream history based on both the historical record and
Bullshit. The Jews of today are the direct descendants of the ancient Jews, as the population genetics studies prove. The idea that has something to do with "racism" is idiotic. Jews are not a biological race.Allowing for a moment that genetic continuation is relevant (it's not, and its use borders on racism anyway),
One, the Jewish religion is pretty much the same today as it was in the Babylonian Captivity, based on the Torah and prophets.prove that the Jews of the present are culturally the same as the Jews of over 2000 years ago -and that provides in itself a good argument for why they have a strong claim to a land where in 1800 Jews made up less than 3% of the people.
Two, the concept of "cultural similarity" is not well-defined, as there is no direct litmus.
Three, international law does not respect any such concept as a defining characteristic of sovereignty.
Four, the Jewish population in 1800 - almost a hundred years before the First Aliyah - isn't relevant to anything.
Five, at the end of the day, Palestine was a U.N. mandate, and the UN chose to partition the land and offer the Israelis a sovereign homeland, whether you like it or not.
You are conflating two separate concepts:Because property rights cannot be reduced to 'our people held this land first',
1. Sovereignty: the right to make laws within a specific territory.
2. Ownership of property.
According to their spokespeople during the Crane King Commission, they felt they were part of Syria anyhow.
Two, there is also no evidence Arabs in Palestine considered themselves a special national group called "Palestinians" during the First World War.
Three, by WWI, the Jews had already created a de facto homeland for themselves, including draining off malarial swamps, irrigating the land, planing trees and crops, etc.
Four, the idea that Jews in Palestine believed they were "racially superior" to their brothers in race, the Arabs, is a ridiculous bunch of malarkey. I'd love to see you try to prove it with documentary evidence.
Five, even prominent anti-Zionists like Noam Chomsky gave up on advocating for a "one-state solution" long ago. It would simply be a catalyst for a bloody civil war like the ones in Lebanon, Sudan, and Yugoslavia
Six, it's inane to suggest the Jews took the best land. 60% of the Israeli partition was empty desert land in the Negev, and the rest was only usable because the early Zionists reclaimed it via irrigation.
You seem to enjoy making up your own facts.
Last edited by Cyclone Ranger; 03-25-2012 at 12:28 AM.
Seven, is there is basically no evidence of the ancient 12 tribes of Israel in the region known as Palestine before the zionist invasion, why do you clowns insist you are one of the tribes?
There is certainly evidence of the ancient Jews there, although there probably weren't literally twelve tribes.
Kamandi, there is no evidence of ancient Isreal. But I am troubled you deny the 10 tribes who were taken away before ANY MENTION of the term you use to describe the ancient Israelites in Scipture. That is understandable since Israelites were AT WAR with Jews according to the Old Testament! What a belligerent bunch of fags!
has anyone mentioned the various claims regarding "Noah's Ark"? for instance the most recent one being in Turkey?
The team claims to have found in 2007 and 2008 seven large wooden compartments buried at 13,000 feet (4,000 meters) above sea level, near the peak of Mount Ararat. They returned to the site with a film crew in October 2009.
Many Christians believe the mountain in Turkey is the final resting place of Noah's ark
Utter codswallop if you ask me
I'm not Kamandi.
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