Health care premiums will surpass median U.S. incomes by 2033: study

[antiquity]

Have you ever actually studied up on how this all actually works in the real world? We don't have to wildly speculate. Countries with socialized medicine have actually been buying drugs for decades. What they do is negotiate a bulk discount purchase. That's why drugs are so much cheaper in Canada, etc.

Do you know the difference between reality and satire?

[Chachma v'Oz]

I will tell you how they are handled, long waits.

Waiting for a CT is preferable to being unable to get one because it's priced out of range.

[antiquity]

Waiting for a CT is preferable to being unable to get one because it's priced out of range.

Not for anyone with a lick of sense and insurance.

[Chachma v'Oz]

The unaffordability of insurance is the topic we're discussing.

[kellyb]

Do you know the difference between reality and satire?

Satire is supposed to be funny.

[Cd.]

Re: Original post, this is what happens when you sell health care as commodity. For profit healthcare is all about money and not about people.

If we'd just give everyone free healthcare, that would solve the problem.

For once you are making sense.

[antiquity]

Satire is supposed to be funny.

No it isn't, liberal use satire all the time and I don't find them particularly funny. For instance when Jay Leno said Palin's young daughter was having sex with a baseball player.

[kellyb]

No it isn't, liberal use satire all the time and I don't find them particularly funny. For instance when Jay Leno said Palin's young daughter was having sex with a baseball player.

If it's not funny, it's shitty satire.

[antiquity]

If it's not funny, it's shitty satire.

Actually satire is just a left hand slap in the face.

[Chachma v'Oz]

Slaps can be effective in jolting some folks out of hysteria.

[Powerboss]

Didn't Baraka promise that not only would he insure everyone, that he would bring down the costs?

What? Are you telling me that was a false promise?

[Chachma v'Oz]

It's been my experience that investments involve initial outlay before return can be expected.

[kellyb]

It's been my experience that investments involve initial outlay before return can be expected.

The ACA really doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Chachma v'Oz]

It makes sense to many of us to see to it that health insurance is affordable, health care costs are kept under control, quality of care is improved and preventative services to nip potentially serious health problems in the bud is provided. Will the PPACA accomplish these goals? Compared to what, doing absolutely nothing about our serious health care delivery and insurance problems as has been the case so far? We have no reason to believe that any of this will be accomplished in its absence, so unless we take a stab at it all the whining in the world isn't doing us a bit of good. Like with any new program it will require tweaks along the way. Nothing comes out of congress as the word of god or set in stone, so we implement it and make adjustments until it produces the desired results.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who says we don't have a very serious problem in the way we handle health care in this country is in denial. No one in his right mind would base his nation's health care system on ours here, as evidenced by the fact that none do, even emerging third world nations. The health of a nation's population is of national concern and needs to be dealt with on a national level. Most of the world has already figured this out.

[kellyb]

It makes sense to many of us to see to it that health insurance is affordable, health care costs are kept under control, quality of care is improved and preventative services to nip potentially serious health problems in the bud is provided. Will the PPACA accomplish these goals? Compared to what, doing absolutely nothing about our serious health care delivery and insurance problems as has been the case so far? We have no reason to believe that any of this will be accomplished in its absence, so unless we take a stab at it all the whining in the world isn't doing us a bit of good. Like with any new program it will require tweaks along the way. Nothing comes out of congress as the word of god or set in stone, so we implement it and make adjustments until it produces the desired results.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who says we don't have a very serious problem in the way we handle health care in this country is in denial. No one in his right mind would base his nation's health care system on ours here, as evidenced by the fact that none do, even emerging third world nations. The health of a nation's population is of national concern and needs to be dealt with on a national level. Most of the world has already figured this out.

The ACA doesn't really help with any of that, though. The mandate is a tiny IRS fine compared to the cost of insurance. All of the sickness-profiteering is left intact. It was/is basically fake reform.

I can't see how this won't INCREASE the price of insurance, although on the better side, sick people who need insurance will be able to have it (more often than now.)

[Chachma v'Oz]

We'll see. Think of the Wright Brothers, spending all that time and energy only to have their dream last a few seconds and move their heavy craft a hundred feet. What if they'd decided to call it a bust and go back to building bicycles, something they knew they could do? If we have a goal, we have to be serious about addressing it. It doesn't mean we're going to get everything right straight out of the chute.

[kellyb]

Although, on the brightest side, all of the OH MY GOD MASSIVE GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER OF HEALTHCARE DEATH PANELS AND RATIONING HOLY SHIT WTF rhetoric will now be overplayed old news if real reform is ever proposed and/or enacted.

If I had more faith in the Democratic Party leadership, I'd assume that was the real plan.

[kellyb]

We'll see. Think of the Wright Brothers, spending all that time and energy only to have their dream last a few seconds and move their heavy craft a hundred feet. What if they'd decided to call it a bust and go back to building bicycles, something they knew they could do? If we have a goal, we have to be serious about addressing it. It doesn't mean we're going to get everything right straight out of the chute.

It's not the same. Nothing was tried but failed because it was a prototype. It was fake reform by design. The Wright brothers never designed a plane intended to not fly.

[Powerboss]

It's been my experience that investments involve initial outlay before return can be expected.

2033 is 21 years away. When should we expect this magic return on our investment?

It makes sense to many of us to see to it that health insurance is affordable, health care costs are kept under control, quality of care is improved and preventative services to nip potentially serious health problems in the bud is provided.

We all agree on this.

Will the PPACA accomplish these goals?

Nope.

Compared to what, doing absolutely nothing about our serious health care delivery and insurance problems as has been the case so far?

Nobody is suggesting we do nothing.

We have no reason to believe that any of this will be accomplished in its absence, so unless we take a stab at it all the whining in the world isn't doing us a bit of good. Like with any new program it will require tweaks along the way. Nothing comes out of congress as the word of god or set in stone, so we implement it and make adjustments until it produces the desired results.

You just epitomize liberal philosophy. You judge intentions, not results. You cannot show me any system of medical care that has increased quality, increased supply of doctors and facilities, improved medical technology / innovation, shortened wait times, improved care, all while dropping the costs and that's whats been promised. It's a utopian dream and simply a lie.
What's your answer, we keep "tweaking" it until it works. It doesn't work. It never has and it won't start anytime soon.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who says we don't have a very serious problem in the way we handle health care in this country is in denial. No one in his right mind would base his nation's health care system on ours here, as evidenced by the fact that none do, even emerging third world nations. The health of a nation's population is of national concern and needs to be dealt with on a national level. Most of the world has already figured this out.

Nobody is saying we don't have to fix the problems in the system. Why are you arguing a strawman?
The reality is that we do need to "tweak" the system without the disastrous Government interfering anymore than it already has.

[Powerboss]

We'll see. Think of the Wright Brothers, spending all that time and energy only to have their dream last a few seconds and move their heavy craft a hundred feet. What if they'd decided to call it a bust and go back to building bicycles, something they knew they could do? If we have a goal, we have to be serious about addressing it. It doesn't mean we're going to get everything right straight out of the chute.

The Wright Brothers didn't get their orders from the Government and didn't have to adhere to millions of ridiculous rules and regulations issued by the Government. You're on the right track though, let the private sector fix the problems.