Health care premiums will surpass median U.S. incomes by 2033: study

[Chachma v'Oz]

Actually, I'm guessing most providers...if not allowed to make the profits they think they need...will just close up shop. In other words, if the government says XYZ provider of CT scans can only make 5%...the provider will probably not invest in a new multi-million dollar CT scanner. When the one they have craps out, they'll probably just close their doors.

Unfortunatly, most liberal feelgood plans to reengineer our businesses and economy have unintended consequences that are very easy to predict.

Of the new medical technologies/drugs developed over the last 10 years, what percentage have have come from countries with socialized medical care and/or price controls?

A lot of speculation here. Let's look at how CT scans are handled in countries with national health care plans before letting our imaginations go wild.

[antiquity]

WTF doesn't that mean? If a Safeway moved into your city and completed with all the other food markets, don't you think prices would have to adjust.

[Chachma v'Oz]

So, you're saying we should preserve the "small players" with higher prices now...so that we can pay higher prices later too. Instead of getting lower prices now and perhaps having higher prices later? Confused...

I thought insurance companies competed with each other in their markets. Now you're confusing me.

[antiquity]

A lot of speculation here. Let's look at how CT scans are handled in countries with national health care plans before letting our imaginations go wild.

I will tell you how they are handled, long waits.

[Chachma v'Oz]

Even with the government subsidies very few.

With the US and its broken health care services system to do it for everyone, why make the effort?

[antiquity]

I thought insurance companies competed with each other in their markets. Now you're confusing me.

See post #102.

[Chachma v'Oz]

Yes. So, when the US finally does go to a socialized program, don't expect there to be many new life-saving technologies developed. That's all.

Imagine what life would be like if we had enacted socialized medicine in 1950. Sure, the costs would be lower...but we'd be dealing with sticks and rocks in comparison to what we have today.

The Europeans and Japanese have a great system. They depend on the US to shoulder the burden of new development. Then, they simply piggyback on buying the drugs. Once the US stops developing the drugs, Europe and Japan won't get any new ones either.

That would seem to open up the development market to everyone, once the US has leveled the field.

[Chachma v'Oz]

WTF doesn't that mean? If a Safeway moved into your city and completed with all the other food markets, don't you think prices would have to adjust.

WalMart did that, and many surrounding businesses closed, from jewelry shops to supermarkets. Now China's prices are rising and WalMart shoppers aren't saving much anymore, yet those other businesses (and their employees) are still toast.

Big improvement, eh?

[kellyb]

A vast majority of our medical technology comes from the tax-funded NIH. Then it gets mass produced by private industries. None of that would be different if we'd started paying for health care via taxation as opposed to paying insurance companies in the 1950's.

[antiquity]

With the US and its broken health care services system to do it for everyone, why make the effort?

Because the US drug and medical instrument companies are spending billion so they don't have to make the effort.

By the way the US health care system is not broken, yet.

In a largely overlooked segment of the CBO's update to the budget outlook released Tuesday, the independent arm of Congress found that the bill will cost $1.76 trillion up from the $800 billion in the original forecast.

"The bill spends more than the president promised, it covers fewer people -- probably 2 million fewer people -- and it taxes more than was expected," said Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., ranking member on the Senate Budget Committee.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...#ixzz1pJf5Qnue

[Chachma v'Oz]

Oh, if I want the news, I head straight for Fox.

If you want to be sure, find multiple sources. If you want to be certain, rely on Fox. You won't be right, but you'll be certain.

[Freedom&Liberty]

The Europeans and Japanese have a great system. They depend on the US to shoulder the burden of new development. Then, they simply piggyback on buying the drugs. Once the US stops developing the drugs, Europe and Japan won't get any new ones either.

Not to mention that we'll be the only country to have both socialized medicine AND a military that allows all the other countries to afford socialized medicine. Who will be there to cure the next superbug that arises? We can somehow afford to treat hundreds of crack whores and all their babies for aids, but since all the profit was sucked out of new drug development, a few million superbug folks are just going to have to die for the common good.

[antiquity]

WalMart did that, and many surrounding businesses closed, from jewelry shops to supermarkets. Now China's prices are rising and WalMart shoppers aren't saving much anymore, yet those other businesses (and their employees) are still toast.

Big improvement, eh?

We got a new Walmart in our small community about 4 years ago and it was expanded to a super Walmart which just opened about a month, ago. There were many who made that argument about small mom and pop businesses closing but four years later, it didn't happen. I few businesses had to make adjustment to their business strategy but none according to a recent article in the paper have closed because of Walmart. Now some businesses have closed due to a sluggish economy (mostly eateries) but not because of Walmart. Fact is the prices in some of those small stores have dropped to a point that more people will now shop in them where as people would travel about 50 miles away to shop in the nearest malls. Now they mostly stay and buy locally.

[kellyb]

We already pay as much in taxes per capita for socialized medicine as people in other countries do. We just don't cover but a small % of the population for the money.

Drugs are profitable to pharma countries when they sell to countries with socialized medicine, too.

[antiquity]

Oh, if I want the news, I head straight for Fox.

If you want to be sure, find multiple sources. If you want to be certain, rely on Fox. You won't be right, but you'll be certain.

WTF....its a report from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO). You know the government.

[antiquity]

We already pay as much in taxes per capita for socialized medicine as people in other countries do. We just don't cover but a small % of the population for the money.

Drugs are profitable to pharma countries when they sell to countries with socialized medicine, too.

If I ran a drug company and developed a new drug I will sell to those socialized countries for twice the rate I would sell it here. Why not, their government will pick up the tap and pass on the cost thru higher taxes. Its a win-win situation is it not.

[Freedom&Liberty]

There's more to a healthy population than simply avoiding the catastrophic.

Having socialized healthcare isn't going to make the population healthy. No doctor, insurance provider or government can make you eat right, or exercise, or take pills. Catastrophic care is more than they deserve.

[kellyb]

If I ran a drug company and developed a new drug I will sell to those socialized countries for twice the rate I would sell it here. Why not, their government will pick up the tap and pass on the cost thru higher taxes. Its a win-win situation is it not.

Have you ever actually studied up on how this all actually works in the real world? We don't have to wildly speculate. Countries with socialized medicine have actually been buying drugs for decades. What they do is negotiate a bulk discount purchase. That's why drugs are so much cheaper in Canada, etc.

[hadit]

Have you ever actually studied up on how this all actually works in the real world? We don't have to wildly speculate. Countries with socialized medicine have actually been buying drugs for decades. What they do is negotiate a bulk discount purchase. That's why drugs are so much cheaper in Canada, etc.

Don't ignore the elephant in the room. Those discounted prices kick in after American consumers have paid the R&D costs.

[kellyb]

Don't ignore the elephant in the room. Those discounted prices kick in after American consumers have paid the R&D costs.

A lot of the R&D cost is actually for advertising. And the profits from selling to countries with UHC pay for R&D, too. It's not like pharma sells to Canada as a charity service. Price gouging Americans is not a necessary part of medical advancement.