Reply With QuoteParents can be "proven" to exist.Originally Posted by Cyclone Ranger
Are you arguing that the laws of nature are evidence of god?
Right, and because your parents didn't give you everything you ever asked for, parents don't exist.....even though they were nice enough to put a roof over your head and fed you as a helpless child swaddling in your mother's arms..... and in suchlike fashion, God continues to provide us with a nice physical universe that obeys rational, predictable laws of nature.
Parents can be "proven" to exist.
Are you arguing that the laws of nature are evidence of god?
No, there's no reason why God should be untestable. If prayer ever works, it would be detectable, if tested in the correct way. Unless God was just intentionally hiding from science.
Nothing is outside the realm of science.
Dumbest reasoning ever.
I represent the angry, gun toting meat eating people. ~ Denis Leary
The same shepherd that protects the flock leads them to the slaughterhouse.
optimus (03-17-2012)
Yes, the laws of nature could be interpreted to be evidence of a creator.
I represent the angry, gun toting meat eating people. ~ Denis Leary
The same shepherd that protects the flock leads them to the slaughterhouse.
That's something that has always left me wondering, with hope.
It does seem like...magic, doesn't it? I mean, I know it's physics and not magic, but at the end of the line of questions, the answer is "It just IS. Deal with it."
And, the fact they don't give you everything you want doesn't disprove they exist either - nor does the failure of intercessory prayer prove God doesn't exist. (Cases where intercessory prayer does work don't validate God's existence, in the same way.)
Why? Because you have don't have an alternate universe in which God provably exists and does answer intercessory prayer without fail to use as a control group. Thus, intercessory prayer neither proves nor disproves God's existence.
I've already clearly stated that God's existence can't be proven or refuted.Are you arguing that the laws of nature are evidence of god?
Last edited by Cyclone Ranger; 03-17-2012 at 09:44 AM.
No, reasoning vastly more intelligent than anything of which you're intellectually capable.
Of course there are things outside the ream of science.
No, that's not the way science works at all.And, the fact they don't give you everything you want doesn't disprove they exist either - nor does the failure of intercessory prayer prove God doesn't exist. (Cases where intercessory prayer does work don't validate God's existence, in the same way.)
Why? Because you have don't have an alternate universe in which God provably exists and does answer intercessory prayer without fail to use as a control group. Thus, intercessory prayer neither proves nor disproves God's existence.
You're so way off the mark that I can't figure out where to start. But I guess I'll start here:
"you have don't have an alternate universe in which God provably exists and does answer intercessory prayer without fail to use as a control group. "
That's completely opposite of what control groups do. Control groups are NON-intervention groups to be compared to an intervention (like antibiotics or intercessory prayer).
Only in people's minds.
Maybe he doesn't have to answer every single prayer, but perhaps he could figure out a way to save 18,000 kids dying every day from hunger. I mean, if he isn't too busy, of course.
The Lord works in mysterious ways, optimus.
There are more things in the heavens and the Earth than dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio.
Exactly. How else would you be able to determine the validity of your hidden assumption that God only exists if he answers prayers, other than by comparing it to a universe where God is known to exist, and answers intercessory prayers?
I mean, otherwise your analogy between antibiotics and intercessory prayer would be bogus. You would then have to contend with the argument that God has the free will to determine whether or not he, in his infinite wisdom, chooses to grant petitions on a case by case basis. Certainly, attaining divine grace isn't as mechanical as flipping on a light switch.
Last edited by Cyclone Ranger; 03-17-2012 at 12:38 PM.
As one would expect of an omniscient being whose cosmic intelligence dwarfs our little brains.
hadit (03-17-2012)
Maybe he leaves that up to us to remedy, since we are the greatest of his creations, and we do have the means to do so. It's not like you can just expect everything to be handed to you straight from Heaven, is it?
A side note: Many years ago an aircraft took off from a airport in Japan, something snapped in the tail section and the aircraft could not be controlled. To make a long story short the aircraft (a 747) crashed into the side of a mountain killing all aboard except four people who somehow survived.
Question: Why was the life of the four people who survived considered a miracle and the 420+ who died that day taken as 'God's will'?
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I WILL NOT INSULT YOUR INTELLIGENCE BUT YOUR LACK OF INTELLECT IS FAIR GAME
Remember the axiom of big government bureaucrats: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. When, finally, under the crushing weight of taxes and regulation, it stops moving, subsidize it. Going Postal
You don't think god answers prayers?
I don't take issue with deist types of deities. It's only the deities who are touted as actually doing stuff that I find implausible.
You can find it as implausible as you wish, but that's not proof of anything.
God is a supremely superhuman meta-entity equipped with wisdom vastly beyond mortal ken. Our ability to understand his purposes is therefore limited.
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