Did Jesus Ever Really Exist?

[lily]

So the bottom line in all this is that God aparently likes you more than he likes me, which is why he hasn't proven his existence to me?

Where did I say that??? Um, no. God loves you. A lot. And likes you too...although God may not like our actions sometimes.

I DID say that where a person's heart is makes a huge difference. If a person is hard-hearted, or has things like stubbornness, intellectual pride, etc... then I don't think God is going to bow down to our terms. So I think when a person who has a sincere and genuine desire to know the truth, without the pride which blinds us... that's when our eyes can be opened.

Btw, Jesus talked about this in one of his parables. He talked about how, when people hear the gospel, they are like different types of ground or soil. A hard, rocky ground is not going to take the seed. A ground with lots of thorns and weeds (which in this parable symbolize the cares of this world) will not allow the seed to grow either. But good soil, without the rocks and thorns - will take the seed and it will not die.

[kellyb]

First of all, not even a retarded child would deny that we are more than just flesh and blood. I think everyone agrees that we have a non-physical aspect to our being (A mind, will, emotions and personality or individuality) That is what a soul is. To deny a soul exists, is to deny those things I just mentioned... which I'm pretty sure no one would do.

I wouldn't call a mind and emotions a soul. Or, do rats have souls, according to your definition?

Anyway, I completely take issue with your definition of soul. I think the mind and emotions are physical at the core.

You would agree, would you not, that we have - regardless of what you call it - a certain energy that differentiates a living human being from a corpse? Alrighty then.

Maybe, but I'm not sure it's a "certain energy". There are problems with the definition of death:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death#P..._of_definition

Dead vs alive might not be a matter of energy, different or otherwise.

[kellyb]

Where did I say that??? Um, no. God loves you. A lot. And likes you too...although God may not like our actions sometimes.

I DID say that where a person's heart is makes a huge difference. If a person is hard-hearted, or has things like stubbornness, intellectual pride, etc... then I don't think God is going to bow down to our terms. So I think when a person who has a sincere and genuine desire to know the truth, without the pride which blinds us... that's when our eyes can be opened.

Btw, Jesus talked about this in one of his parables. He talked about how, when people hear the gospel, they are like different types of ground or soil. A hard, rocky ground is not going to take the seed. A ground with lots of thorns and weeds (which in this parable symbolize the cares of this world) will not allow the seed to grow either. But good soil, without the rocks and thorns - will take the seed and it will not die.

Interesting how that parable applies to Allah/Islam, New Age beliefs, etc, too, isn't it?

[lily]

I wouldn't call a mind and emotions a soul. Or, do rats have souls, according to your definition?

You kind of twisted my words. I said the soul (our 'inner man' so to speak) is made up of all of those things; our mind, will, emotions, personality. Does a rat have those things? I don't think so. There are some animals that seem to have emotions, or a soulish aspect... but it's not quite the same thing. I'm not sure why you brought that up though, why do you ask?

Maybe, but I'm not sure it's a "certain energy". There are problems with the definition of death:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death#P..._of_definition

Dead vs alive might not be a matter of energy, different or otherwise.

Again, I'm not sure what your point is. Clearly, in order for people to move, grow, communicate, etc... there is a type of energy there. It's not like we plug ourselves into the wall and use electricity. But there is a life force there. I don't see how anyone can deny that.

In Genesis, the bible talks about this animating force. It says that God (Spirit) breathed life into the physical part of man, making us a living soul. That goes along with what I posted, from Nee's book. We are 3 parts: body (our physical shell), soul (ourselves, or inner being) and spirit (our life force and connection to God)

There's an analogy on this, that might help us see this. It's a computer analogy:

Body: hardware
Soul: software
Spirit: electricity that powers the computer

I've also heard that analogy in slightly different ways. And, btw, there is some disagreement among Christians on this topic. Some people say that the soul and spirit are interchangeable. But as I said, I think the soul and spirit are two different things, and I think that is backed up by scripture.

Interesting how that parable applies to Allah/Islam, New Age beliefs, etc, too, isn't it?

Not really. Many "new age" religions are not monotheistic, and they teach doctrines that are in opposition to Christianity. As for Islam, well, obviously Islam does not teach 'the Gospel' - so I'm not sure what you're claiming. That belief in God is the same for Islam? I disagree, but this is something for a different thread. We've already gotten way off the original topic here.

[kellyb]

You kind of twisted my words. I said the soul (our 'inner man' so to speak) is made up of all of those things; our mind, will, emotions, personality. Does a rat have those things? I don't think so. There are some animals that seem to have emotions, or a soulish aspect... but it's not quite the same thing. I'm not sure why you brought that up though, why do you ask?

Everything you mentioned, and I admit they all exist - "A mind, will, emotions and personality or individuality" applies to a lot of animals. Maybe most. If THAT's what you're defining as "soul" then rats have "souls", too.

In Genesis, the bible talks about this animating force. It says that God (Spirit) breathed life into the physical part of man, making us a living soul. That goes along with what I posted, from Nee's book. We are 3 parts: body (our physical shell), soul (ourselves, or inner being) and spirit (our life force and connection to God)

There's an analogy on this, that might help us see this. It's a computer analogy:

Body: hardware
Soul: software
Spirit: electricity that powers the computer

I've also heard that analogy in slightly different ways. And, btw, there is some disagreement among Christians on this topic. Some people say that the soul and spirit are interchangeable. But as I said, I think the soul and spirit are two different things, and I think that is backed up by scripture.

I just don't agree. I used to be Christian. I know what the Bible teaches.

Not really.

Yes, really.

"When people hear the about the New Age Teachings, they are like different types of ground or soil. A hard, rocky ground is not going to take the seed. A ground with lots of thorns and weeds (which in this parable symbolize the cares of this world) will not allow the seed to grow either. But good soil, without the rocks and thorns - will take the seed and it will not die. "

Or...

"When people hear the Allah and his Prophet, they are like different types of ground or soil. A hard, rocky ground is not going to take the seed. A ground with lots of thorns and weeds (which in this parable symbolize the cares of this world) will not allow the seed to grow either. But good soil, without the rocks and thorns - will take the seed and it will not die. "

It fits perfectly. Just a different superstition.

[lily]

It fits perfectly. Just a different superstition.

That's demonstrably false. As I was saying, many "new-agey" religions aren't even theistic. It's not difficult at all to believe in something like an impersonal "energy" (as opposed to a God who holds us accountable). You're comparing apples and oranges there.

As for Islam, again- I totally disagree, but it would take me too long to try to explain this to you. I really do have to go now. I'll probably be back tomorrow though!

[kellyb]

That's demonstrably false. As I was saying, many "new-agey" religions aren't even theistic. It's not difficult at all to believe in something like an impersonal "energy" (as opposed to a God who holds us accountable). You're comparing apples and oranges there.

As for Islam, again- I totally disagree, but it would take me too long to try to explain this to you. I really do have to go now. I'll probably be back tomorrow though!

It doesn't matter if it's theistic or monotheistic. Ideas of all sorts fall upon "fertile and infertile grounds". You're an infertile ground (for now) for the atheist idea. I'm infertile for Christianity. We're both infertile for New Age and Islam.

[jwreck]

Where did I say that??? Um, no. God loves you. A lot. And likes you too...although God may not like our actions sometimes.

I DID say that where a person's heart is makes a huge difference. If a person is hard-hearted, or has things like stubbornness, intellectual pride, etc... then I don't think God is going to bow down to our terms. So I think when a person who has a sincere and genuine desire to know the truth, without the pride which blinds us... that's when our eyes can be opened.

Well how else should I interpret that he reveals himself on an individual basis and has revealed himself to you but not me?

Btw, Jesus talked about this in one of his parables. He talked about how, when people hear the gospel, they are like different types of ground or soil. A hard, rocky ground is not going to take the seed. A ground with lots of thorns and weeds (which in this parable symbolize the cares of this world) will not allow the seed to grow either. But good soil, without the rocks and thorns - will take the seed and it will not die.

That doesn't really apply to me. I heard the gospel when my "soil" was well tilled and fertile. I was raised in the church.