How does the absence of a deity

[BooRadley]

You're not getting it. Government shouldn't care what the percentage is. If you do, spend your own money.

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The domestic tranquility and general welfare will go straight to shit when the 100 million Americans who live at or near poverty can't feed their kids. I'm not interested in self-righteous pseudo-moralistic crap about what you think they should do. What they will do is start running down yuppies, beating them to death and nicking their wallets watches and beemers. I'm sure I know the emotionally based, irrational response that you're currently planning: zOMG WELL HIRE TEN TIME AS MANY COPS AND BUILD 100 NEW PRISONS AND BUST THEM DOWN SELF-RIGHTEOUS INSANITY FOR THE WIN, or something along those lines. It would not only cost a hell of a lot more than just providing basic assistance, it would also be a bloody and violent disaster. It is the government's job to prevent that.

The insane level of greed that you people espouse in your willingness to let the whole country go to hell just to save yourself a percentage point on your taxes is remarkable, even if it is completely insane.

[Zordar]

Government and society exist to protect the weak from the strong.

In theory, at least. In practice... not so much.

The domestic tranquility and general welfare will go straight to shit when the 100 million Americans who live at or near poverty can't feed their kids. I'm not interested in self-righteous pseudo-moralistic crap about what you think they should do. What they will do is start running down yuppies, beating them to death and nicking their wallets watches and beemers.

Eh, this actually doesn't sound so bad. We haven't had a good cull since WWII; an honest-to-goodness class war might be just what we need.

I'm fine feeding the poor if they are disabled, actively seeking work, or willing to be sterilized. Outside of that, I'm with F&L. Let them starve, shoot 'em if they take what isn't theirs.

[antiquity]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty..._United_States

United States Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) figures for poverty in 2011[5] Persons in

Family Unit 	48 Contiguous
		States and D.C.	Alaska 		Hawaii
1 		$10,890 	$13,600 	$12,544
2 		$14,710 	$18,380 	$16,930
3 		$18,530 	$23,160 	$21,320
4 		$22,350 	$27,940 	$25,710
5 		$26,170 	$32,720 	$30,100
6 		$29,990 	$37,500 	$34,490
7 		$33,810 	$42,280 	$38,880
8 		$37,630 	$47,060 	$43,270
Each additional
person adds 	$3,820 		$4,780 		$4,390

A working mother with two children CANNOT live on $18,530 in my region. That won't even pay the rent on a 2 bedroom apartment in a ghetto neighbourhood, so don't tell me the poverty rate is too high.

If we don't provide welfare assistance for food, shelter, day care, do you really expect to just let the kids starve to death? Or do you think it will instead result in something much worse than the cost of a PB & J sandwich?

2011, huh, doesn't say to much for Obama's policies does it.

Show me any evidence of kids starving to death with general assistance, school meals and food banks to provide them.

[BooRadley]

Show me any evidence of kids starving to death with general assistance, school meals and food banks to provide them.

Um, that's my point, not yours. That's why there's general assistance, school means and food banks.

2011, huh, doesn't say to much for Obama's policies does it.

[GanjaFreebird]

Sharing being the key word. Again, at some point you have to start charging people in exchange for whatever it is you can do that people are willing to pay for.

Right, and I've been doing so as a professional musician for quite a few years now, after all, not everybody has rich Jewish parents that will support them.

Or 0% Basically it means you have not earned enough to reach the threshold to pay taxes. Get to fluckin' work you lazy bum.

In case you didn't know, which you wouldn't, because you haven't had a job in 20 years, EVERYBODY pays for medicare and social security, no matter how much they earn.

[Freedom&Liberty]

The only gov't that sought to cure none of societies' ills didn't last much longer after they fell to that level. Take the French Revolution as one reaction to that blindness.

We should suffer no anarchists, just because they wish everyone behaved well enough and were perfectly willing to quietly kill themselves when their resources run out.

Eliminating social programs is not anarchy. Let government, govern.

[Freedom&Liberty]

Bullshit, it wasn't. Government and society exist to protect the weak from the strong. If it were not for that, there would be no purpose for either society or government at all.

More nonsense. Government was created to protect us from force and fraud. Stop using it as an instrument of plunder.

[Freedom&Liberty]

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The general welfare of the union, not the people. You've using emotional hogwash to exceed the scope of the document..

The domestic tranquility and general welfare will go straight to shit when the 100 million Americans who live at or near poverty can't feed their kids. I'm not interested in self-righteous pseudo-moralistic crap about what you think they should do. What they will do is start running down yuppies, beating them to death and nicking their wallets watches and beemers. I'm sure I know the emotionally based, irrational response that you're currently planning: zOMG WELL HIRE TEN TIME AS MANY COPS AND BUILD 100 NEW PRISONS AND BUST THEM DOWN SELF-RIGHTEOUS INSANITY FOR THE WIN, or something along those lines. It would not only cost a hell of a lot more than just providing basic assistance, it would also be a bloody and violent disaster. It is the government's job to prevent that.

I think this is the emotionally based, irrational response that you're talking about.

The insane level of greed that you people espouse in your willingness to let the whole country go to hell just to save yourself a percentage point on your taxes is remarkable, even if it is completely insane.

The level of freedom you've removed from the people is what's completely insane.

[Cyclone Ranger]

There is no distinction between the union and the people. The United States is a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

General welfare of the United States means the general welfare of the people.

[Šñøü†ê®]

Right, and I've been doing so as a professional musician for quite a few years now.

How can you refer to yourself as a professional when you MAKE NO MONEY at the occupation!

EVERYBODY pays for medicare and social security, no matter how much they earn.

Wowsa, you are a dummy! Seriously, get a job, get a paycheck, make enough to reach the threshold to pay federal income tax and report back. Don't make us give up all hope for you.

[86Dùde]

Right, and I've been doing so as a professional musician for quite a few years now, after all, not everybody has rich Jewish parents that will support them.



In case you didn't know, which you wouldn't, because you haven't had a job in 20 years, EVERYBODY pays for medicare and social security, no matter how much they earn.

ZOG INFILTRATOR WITH A GUITAR ALERT^

[Šñøü†ê®]

I can't believe Ganga still thinks folks here will EVER buy his bullshit about being a professional. I think that is more of an insult to our collective intelligence than Ganga's continuous racist insults against users here.

[Cyclone Ranger]

When you stop leeching off your elderly parents and get a job, Snouter, then you criticize Ganja's professionalism.

[Šñøü†ê®]

Cowpunk, the point is that Ganga doesn't technically have a profession. And that is why he needs our help and guidance. Again, you would know if there is some way to leech of the government so maybe you can give him advice in that regard!

[86Dùde]

When you stop leeching off your elderly parents and get a job, Snouter, then you criticize Ganja's professionalism.

GANGA APOLOGIST ALERT^

[Freedom&Liberty]

There is no distinction between the union and the people. The United States is a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

General welfare of the United States means the general welfare of the people.

No, it doesn't. The people formed a government that created a union of the states. Providing for the general welfare of the union has nothing to do with the poverty, old age or health of the people.

[Cyclone Ranger]

I'm not Cowpunk.

[Cyclone Ranger]

No, it doesn't. The people formed a government that created a union of the states.

The union between the states is, again, a government of, by, and for the people - and nothing more. Democracy means the people rule, and this is a democracy.

Providin g for the general welfare of the union has nothing to do with the poverty, old age or health of the people.

But providing for the general welfare of the people - which is what the 14th Amendment was ratified to do, among other things - has everything to do with it, if a democratically-elected legislature enacts it as the will of the people.

Unfortunately for your ideology, the text of the General Welfare clause does not make the distinction you wish it did.

[Cyclone Ranger]

Ganja has nothing to apologize for. He's a fine, hard-working young man with good values and morals - at least to the extent I can determine as much online.

[BooRadley]

The general welfare of the union, not the people

Yes, and if the people can't find food, the general welfare of the Union will disintegrate.

I think this is the emotionally based, irrational response that you're talking about.

No, it's history. That's what happens. That's what has happened, and it's what will happen if we don't take measures to prevent it. The problem with conservatives is they're always reacting. They never think a step ahead. If you pull the rug out from under 1/3 of the country, there will be enormous problems. Then you'll be totally surprised, and react to it with massive law enforcement crack downs. Then there will be revolutionary actions, and you'll react to it with domestic deployment of the armed forces. Then you'll claim you're a victim of circumstances, and no one could have know.

The level of freedom you've removed from the people is what's completely insane.

Stop hyperventilating that you had to pay a few grand in taxes. That's not oppression. Oppresssion is what will happen if you ever get your way, and we "have" to develop fascist internal police forces to stop it.