Where do I sign?

[Spazola]

*Warning: It's 1am, I'm exhausted and depressed and angry and I probably won't remember half of what I said here in the morning. So some of it might be worded weird and may not make sense, and if this ends up being the case then I apologize.*

So, over the past couple of months Burr and I had been doing great. We'd been emailing and instant messaging back and forth frequently and everything was fine. I was starting to believe, actually believe, that we could work through the past and have a DECENT relationship, atleast. I've always known that it will never be a normal father-daughter relationship, we lost that years ago--but decent is better than a bad one or none at all, right?

So we discuss everything. The play I'm involved in, shows he's watched, religion. I told him that I was an Agnostic Wiccan. He seemed confused, and asked how you can be both, and I explained. In response he emailed me definitions from various online dictionaries, many of which fit EXACTLY THE WAY I USED IT. He also proceeded to inform me that he is the smartest one is his family--smarter than his brother who works on computers for the government, equally as smart as his pediatrician uncle, blah blah blah.

So after that email I was fairly frusterated, both because he didn't read a single thing I said and because he was being a cocky bastard. But I didn't respond with an angry email or anything, in fact I didn't respond at all. I figured I'd let myself cool off about it first and then write him a letter.

I told my mom about the letter (and showed her) and she understood why I was upset. So, trying to be helpful, she sent him an email explaining what I meant by Agnostic using better wording than I did. He sent her a slightly nasty message in return, and it turned into an online argument between the two of them.

In his final email to my mom he stated that she "won", that he didn't have to see or speak to me anymore, he'll let my stepdad adopt me, where does he sign to give away his parental rights blah blah blah.

It's funny to me that I've clung to our relationship whenever I had the chance to give it up, despite the fact that it was killing me emotionally, but he can easily toss it aside completely out of anger at my MOTHER.

And what's even more funny is that someday soon he's going to be all alone with no one to take care of him. Why is this? BECAUSE HE TREATS EVERYONE AROUND HIM LIKE SHIT! Everyone! Billy, Samantha, Laura, everyone over there caters to him and do whatever he asks--go out to get him food, cook, hand him this get him that, etc. And he has the nerve to say that he's insulted to be compared to them intelligence wise? (He said exactly that in an email to my mom)

He said that since I had to be forced to come see him by my mom (she told him that she wasn't going to make me anymore since he's being a prick) that giving us his car was a mistake and he regrets it.

But he loves me. (Or so he says.)

So, lets recap: He's stating that he's willing to sign away all his parental rights, just like that, willing to give me up completely. He's saying that he regrets giving us his car which, silly me, I thought he did out of concern for MY needs (at the time we didn't have a running car at all). BUT this is all out of love for me.

I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm not going to beg a man who does nothing but make me feel like crap to stay in my life, but I don't want him out of it either. Because I love him. But I hate him so very much because he's a selfish, self-centerd cocky piece of shit and I hate him but he's my dad and I love him and...

Okay, I need to go to bed now. 'Night DA.

[flaming_liberal]

Don't keep downers in your life. They suck.

[fat mike]

sounds like the wiccan thing freaks him out. Is he a fundie?

[Haddaway]

Your dad seems like someone I once knew. They see them as the center of everything and if they don't get what they want they go on a temper tantrum. You say something they disagree with you on they start saying nasty things that make you feel like the worst person in the world. Well let me tell you one thing, what he says is never true and he is just jealous of what you have. He wants the relationship he is just too self absorbed to do anything about it. He may try once in awhile but in the end he is going to end up being a total jerk that you don't want to be around. Either make it clear to him that you are not going to handle his shit (sorry about my language but I feel I needed to emphasis it) or you are never going to speak to him or contact him for the rest of your life. Remind him he will have no one in the end because he is a selfish bastard that only cares about himself, and if he wants to keep the people he loves he will change his attitude MAJORLY and start being more supportive.

If that doesn't help then that father of yours seriously needs to go to hell .

Sorry if this was too harshly expressed but I just had to let it out. I felt your pain.

[oki]

hes an idiot.
if you dont want him out of your life, write him another email. tell him that if he ever sais something like that adoption thing again, you dont want to see him ever again. I mean, there are limits, Id advice you to cut it off now, because of that comment, but I understand hes you dad and its not that simple. but I think its just about the most awfull thing a paernt can say, he deserves to get his ass kicked.
ps I admire your percistance to continue, spaz, you have a big heart.

[indieinmich]

What is it with Dads.
I have three or had three I am now down to two.Between the three I have one heck of a guy but any one of them on their own was surly lacking.

My biological father allowed my mothers new husband to adopt me when I was just 4.I still saw him once a year between my birthday and Christmas.He is my know it all yet absentee father.Only there on occasion but always sure to point out all the places I am going wrong and how he knows so much better.Sure sometimes he did but his approach was just so cocky (as you put it)it was hard to even see or care if or when he was right.As an adult we did start to figure it out some.Our relationship was really growing and then he died.
My adoptive father was a control freak who bailed on me when I was 13 and needed him the most.Now at 30 we are finally getting our relationship back on track.
My step father has always been there with a helping hand but wasn't exactly there with a guiding hand.
When I was younger it was hard for me to get over or see past certain things.I had a hard time seeing my folks as people.I had some strange idea that parents should have it all together before they have children.lol
Now as an adult and parent I know so much better.Parents are people like anyone else.They aren't perfect and they don't always do the right things or make the right decisions.
I realized that if I wanted to have any sort of relationships with my fathers I would simply have to accept them for who they were flaws and all.I was gonna have to be less sensitive to comments or choices I didn't agree with.
It was either that or give up completely on them which I had tried before.It always failed, because no matter how much I didn't like my father/fathers I still loved them and no matter how bad things were I always still had the desire to have them in my life.
It wasn't easy.Especially with my biological father.Old habits die hard and so do old hurt feelings.But this amazing thing happened.The more i pushed forward and tried the more he did as well.Our last couple of years together weren't perfect but they were the best we had ever had.We were both committed to making things work,our bond had been renewed, and we were growing closer and becoming more like father and daughter.This was something I never thought could or would happen.He died three years ago this April.I cant tell you how blessed i feel or lucky I am to have had those last couple of years.Sure he still pissed me off.I am certain I wasn't always his pride and joy either.But I knew he loved me and he knew I loved him.And in the end that is what is most important.
Your father is a unique individual.Who knows if he will ever come around or be able to put his relationship with you before his issues with your mother,but I do hope that you and he can find away to work through your troubles.I do know how hard it is,but I also know the rewards of it as well.And I cant even imagine how I would have felt about my self and our relationship had I not tried and he died.I am not willing to find out which is why i am currently trying so hard with my other two Dads.Its amazing what you can over look or put up with when you are faced with the possibility of not having that person in your life at all.
I wish you all the best.

[zipper99]

Spazola,
do what makes you feel best. Don't feel obligated to "love him" because he's your father. People have to earn love and respect it's not a given.
You seem to have given him chance after chance to do the right thing but he's so in love with himself it's all for nothing.
Personally I would leave it alone. If he wants to communicate, he will. If he doesn't then that's a sure sign how much he thinks of you.
I'm sure you are right, "users" like him end up alone and deservedly so, don't spare any tears for him, go on, live your life and be happy - you DON'T NEED HIM.

[Spazola]

Thank you all for your input...for now I think I am just going to leave it alone, give myself a week or maybe a few weeks to think everything over. I'm worried, because if I make one decision or the other I'm not so sure there's any going back...if I decided to just end the relationship I'm 99% sure he wouldn't take me back if I begged. And if I do continue like this and later I wish I had ended it, I know it's not going to happen because I could NEVER, EVER end it myself...I'd bee too worried about hurting his feelings. So unless he got pissed and "offered" to end it again I'd be stuck.

For those who haven't read any of my past posts about him...I DO feel somewhat obligated to visit with him and keep our relationship going. This is mostly because over this past year he's become very sick. He can't walk, he had a shunt put into his brain, he's having organ problems, going blind in one eye etc. And I pity him oh so very much. But sometimes he makes it very hard to feel sorry for him because he throws his condition up in people's faces, and I don't think anyone could feel any sorrier for him than he feels for himself.

sounds like the wiccan thing freaks him out. Is he a fundie?

Oh, no no no. He's told me recently that he himself leans towards Wiccan beliefs as well, though he wouldn't label himself as any one religion. He just seemed to think I was too stupid to know my own beliefs. Which, BY THE WAY, if you go to religioustolerance.com and search Wicca it says you can even be ATHIEST and still consider yourself Wiccan because those kinds of Wiccans just see the God and Goddess as symbols rather than actual living deities. So I know wtf I'm talking about god dammit.

Oh, another thing that pissed me off...he doesn't think I have a mind of my own. He thinks that if I've ever been mad at him it's because my mom was and she told me to be mad at him, and she'd be mad if I felt differently so I've always had to be mad at him too. He told her that she has more control over me than she could ever know and that I'll always believe her first because if I didn't she'd be disappointed in me and I couldn't stand that.

WHAT. THE. ****. I am NOT a freaking robot! I have my OWN emotions and OWN thoughts and OWN frickin LIFE! I AM A HUMAN BEING! Being fourteen doesn't make me any less of a human but he doesn't understand that. Frickin' *******.

Okay, I feel a bit better now.

[Mystlet]

WHAT. THE. ****. I am NOT a freaking robot! I have my OWN emotions and OWN thoughts and OWN frickin LIFE! I AM A HUMAN BEING! Being fourteen doesn't make me any less of a human but he doesn't understand that. Frickin' *******.

Okay, I feel a bit better now.

For years, my Father drove me in circles of guilt, rage and anger, and it wasn't until many years after I moved out we were able to bond (His demeanor by then had changed drastically). Unfortunately, even after he started acting like a loving parent it took me a long time to dare trust him again.
I guess what I'm trying to say is whether you choose to go on without him in your life, or manage the turbulence with him in it, it will be very hard at times.
You will have anger, guilt, self-doubt and feel stupid, no matter whether he stays or goes. Just realize that what you feel is normal, and you should be allowed to feel it. Don't beat yourself over his failings. We want our parents to make the right decisions, but they are, unfortunately, just as human as we are.
Chin up, kiddo.

[No_Brakes]

...Oh, another thing that pissed me off...he doesn't think I have a mind of my own. ...

Some parents can be like that from the get-go. Others are simply not used to it - and it gets harder for them as time goes on and the child grows to adulthood.

Not sure which he falls into, Spaz, but try not to take it personally - at least until you've got it all sorted out in your mind. I can't say if he'll ever get it sorted out in his whatever his case may be. For some people with parents like that, though, once they've figured out what's going on it becomes easier for them to deal with it (or find ways of dealing with it). Just an observation on my part from people I've known who've been in that situation. (And the options they took are all as different as the situations themselves. Just thought I'd mention that before the question got asked. )

I can't speak from my own experience because I've been lucky enough not to have had it. My parents knew they had a smart enough kid on their hands, and basically dealt with me accordingly. They even spoke to me pretty much like they would to an adult (any sitch they spoke about was age-appropriate, of course, but the general way of conversing would have been like that of speaking to a grownup as far as language and such). Sure, we'd argued and such over the years, but they never talked down to me or anything like that.

I think you've chosen the wisest course at present. Just take a break (a good long one, if you need to - and I think you do) and think things through. Put it all in the proper perspective - the good and the bad. Once you've done that (and it will take time - you have much to consider!), your options will be much more clearly focused.

Hugs and good luck!

[No_Brakes]

Just realize that what you feel is normal, and you should be allowed to feel it.

The most important piece of advice to keep in mind as you're sorting it all out!

[fat mike]

He's told me recently that he himself leans towards Wiccan beliefs as well, though he wouldn't label himself as any one religion

he knows what they do at those secret meetings-I dont know Spaz-maybe you should listen to him-

[SecretSamadhi]

Hugs Sweetie.

[fat mike]

Kym makes me feel guilty i aint being more serious- the idea that you can pick whatever relgion to belong to isnt universal and as a matter of fact it's kind of new-parents never have enough respect for their chiildren's opinions-and this guy is too hard for me to figure out-i dont understand why he does you the way he does...
That's all serious-it might be stupid and useless but it's serious-if I were in a room with the guy I would preach the dangers of hell to him-and I hardly ever do that-but this guy makes me mad...

[oki]

hes being an ass.

[Spazola]

*hugs Kymra* Thanks. <3

I thought that this taking a break stuff would help me become less confused about what to do...but it seems like I get more and more confused every day...like the longer I'm cornered like this the more indecisive I become.

And while I'm not contacting him or anything right now, it doesn't really feel like I'm taking a REAL break because I can't stop thinking about it. It's not exactly an obsessive CONSTANT, but it's taking up space is my head and slowing me down. So part of me is now wondering if this "break" isn't all it's cracked up to be...maybe I just need to make a choice and get it over with.

Kym makes me feel guilty i aint being more serious- the idea that you can pick whatever relgion to belong to isnt universal and as a matter of fact it's kind of new-parents never have enough respect for their chiildren's opinions-and this guy is too hard for me to figure out-i dont understand why he does you the way he does...
That's all serious-it might be stupid and useless but it's serious-if I were in a room with the guy I would preach the dangers of hell to him-and I hardly ever do that-but this guy makes me mad...

We weren't arguing about RELIGION--he wasn't telling me I COULDN'T be Agnostic, he was telling me that I wasn't using the term correctly and that it didn't describe my beliefs right. Anyway that part is over, it doesn't bother me anymore...it's just what got everything ELSE started.

[oki]

like I said, maybe you should send him an email and tell him that you were hurt by him saying he wanted to give you up. then you have it out of your head and he has to worry about it.

[fat mike]

We weren't arguing about RELIGION--he wasn't telling me I COULDN'T be Agnostic, he was telling me that I wasn't using the term correctly and that it didn't describe my beliefs right. Anyway that part is over, it doesn't bother me anymore...it's just what got everything ELSE started.

I dont care waht you were arguing about-I'd still preach hard fire and brimstone at his sorry behind..

[Spazola]

I re-read the emails yesterday and now I'm starting to think that I don't have as much of a choice as I thought...the subject was something like "all the decisions are yours now", but in the actual email (and I quote): "If you don't enjoy seeing me or coming here, then don't."

But then he started whining about being a poor ol' crippled guy--he started out making it sound like it was still about me--"I know it must be hard for you to watch me go through this"...but he didn't just end it with that, NOOOOO, he had to go into DETAIL..."With my brain problems and my liver failing and I'm going blind in my left eye and I have to go in for surgery in a couple weeks and they're doing an MRI and...."

That's another issue...indieinmich actually mentioned it too...what if I'm just like "Okay fine then if you don't want me, then **** you I WILL stop visiting/emailing/calling you" and then he dies here in a year or two? I would never forgive myself for not fighting harder.

I know I know I'm complaing alot, I'm sorry.

[Mystlet]

Like I mentioned, Spaz, no matter what you do you will get assailed with guilt or venom. There's probably no one right or easy answer. If you are truly worried he may die and you won't be able to forgive yourself for not being there, you may want to consider visiting him, but less frequently. You may decide to cut out calland emails and just see him in person from time to time.

Whatever you do choose, do it on your terms, because with his, there seems to be no pleasing him.

Has he ever been diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder? He seems to have a hard time relating to anyone's pain but his own.