I'm curious as to how miserable people really are. Please indicate your country of residence.

Where's the option for singing potatoes :confused:

I'm pretty much grand.

They are inherent in your level or lack of misery. If one adores Singing Potatoes, then one should choose the first option.

Life is good. I plan to enjoy it.

Country of residence - Canada

Things are damn fine.

My misery has more to do with health issues than the economy-I'm concerned about my friends irl though

I'm in New Zealand these days.

I voted the slightly miserable but responsible option.
It was a close call with: 'life is grand'. In the end, that seemed too absolute.

M.

It doesn't matter - I will always Whinge For The Sake Of It.

youre just being honest about something we all do...

US- slightly miserable- entirely my responsibility.

There's no "I'm slightly miserable and it's the weathers fault" option so I must pass on this one.

Happy as a lark. Life is grand.

Not At All - Life Is Grand!

I am perplexed.

Considering the political outlook of much of DA, I would have expected the majority of respondents to be Incredibly Miserable at the fault of the Gubmint. How is it that so many people are HAPPY in a somewhat Capitalistic System?

Because we as people are not one dimensional. Our happiness does not rest solely with the state of the political world. In fact, it's fairly irrelevant to our personal state of happiness.

Got a new car yesterday......life is good.......

The capitalist system is larger than any one govt.

Just sayin'


Mark

US, and generally pretty happy that we do not live in the kind of pseudo-capitalist dystopia that some would foist upon us. The Ferengi are in retreat for the time being.

But George Bush and the GOP were in control for 6 years! Why aren't you Totally Miserable due to the collapse of your lifestyle because your wages are stagnant? Why aren't you miserable because The Rich Got Richer and Oil Companies Have Reported RECORD PROFITS?

This is like the American Car thread.
It's obtuse and stupid.

But George Bush and the GOP were in control for 6 years! Why aren't you Totally Miserable due to the collapse of your lifestyle because your wages are stagnant?
Because my wages haven't been stagnant, but I don't make the stupid mistake of assuming that my circumstances are shared by others. If I want to see the picture for the nation in general, I look at scientifically/statistically valid studies of the nation in general.

But George Bush and the GOP were in control for 6 years! Why aren't you Totally Miserable due to the collapse of your lifestyle because your wages are stagnant? Why aren't you miserable because The Rich Got Richer and Oil Companies Have Reported RECORD PROFITS?


Your question has been answered by FL.
But play up the drama until you tire of it, by all means...

M.

PG - Then what you are basically saying is that your whinging about how awful things are is purely theoretical because your own experience disproves it. :nice:

MW - FL is on permanent ignore.

Because we as people are not one dimensional. Our happiness does not rest solely with the state of the political world. In fact, it's fairly irrelevant to our personal state of happiness.

Well said.
It can be a challenge to not let one affect the other too much. Some people are incapable of it, and I have the greatest compassion for them as their too-great sensitivity to the wrongs in the world causes them great suffering.

But those who dull the sensitivity enough to function and safeguard their own happiness have achieved something worthy of praise, just as long as they don't dull themselves into apathy and lose the drive to make steps towards change, at whatever scale they can.

M.

MW - FL is on permanent ignore.

Ok... It is good that I quoted his response above then. It is worth reading.

M.

One can be happy because they appreciate what they do have, their health, a home, a job, even if it doesn't pay well, but still be concerned about the economy & other matters. It is by no means accepting what the government is doing as being good, or correct.
One can strive for a better world even though they aren't depressed & unsatisfied.

PG - Then what you are basically saying is that your whinging about how awful things are is purely theoretical because your own experience disproves it. :nice:.
Or, to put it the way an honest person would, my observations are based on statistical fact and not mere personal experience from what I know is a very atypical environment.

One can be happy because they appreciate what they do have, their health, a home, a job, even if it doesn't pay well, but still be concerned about the economy & other matters. It is by no means accepting what the government is doing as being good, or correct.
One can strive for a better world even though they aren't depressed & unsatisfied.

Also very well said...
I love you guys and gals.

M.

Perhaps all the things they whine about aren't really true.

Perhaps all the things they whine about aren't really true.
Where there is a way, there is a whine?

Also very well said...
I love you guys and gals.

M.

*smooch*

Or maybe being discontent with the status quo is not necessarily a bad thing.
To strive for perfection is a worthy goal, even if it is potentially unattainable.
I have yet to meet anyone who doesn't aim for the stars.

And thank you Malcolm.

Or, to put it the way an honest person would, my observations are based on statistical fact and not mere personal experience from what I know is a very atypical environment.


Oh - like 4.4% unemployment statistics?

Like record home ownership?

Or, do you rely on the phony wages statistic that doesn't include tips, bonuses, commissions and income from other sources?

Perhaps all the things they whine about aren't really true.

Oh, the brilliance of your brain fart - it blinds us.
Because people are able to maintain a balance of general happiness in their lives, the things they do complain about are somehow non-existant?
We have to be completely miserable in order to point out the problems around us?

Where did you get a license to use your brain, I wonder? With statements such as the one you just graced us with... I half expect you to BLAME us for being be happy with your next exhalation.

M.

Perhaps all the things they whine about aren't really true.


B-I-N-G-O.

Whether you accept those statistics or not is fodder for another thread. Your point in this one used to be about drawing conclusions from personal experience, not from any kind of statistics, and I'm not going to let you get away with changing the subject now that the silliness of your point has been made evident.

I am perplexed.

Considering the political outlook of much of DA, I would have expected the majority of respondents to be Incredibly Miserable at the fault of the Gubmint. How is it that so many people are HAPPY in a somewhat Capitalistic System?

Maybe because the majority of DA aren't like the bitter, miserable little rightwinger moonbat dittoheads who blame everyone else for their unhappiness.

Besides, even if they were, they'd be happy that Americans fumigated the Congress last week.

Whether you accept those statistics or not is fodder for another thread. Your point in this one used to be about drawing conclusions from personal experience, not from any kind of statistics, and I'm not going to let you get away with changing the subject now that the silliness of your point has been made evident.


I'm not changing the subject. I am pointing out the cognitive dissonance of people who are themselves happy but think that Life In General Sucks and requires More Government Intervention.

Perhaps all the things they whine about aren't really true.
...not that you have any evidence of that. "Perhaps" nothing the left-haters have ever said was true, either. See how silly and rude it is to just toss that out there without even trying to make a contrary case? Some might even call it baiting. I'll settle for calling it worthless.

I am pointing out the cognitive dissonance of people who are themselves happy but think that Life In General Sucks and requires More Government Intervention.
There's no dissonance to the cognoscenti, and recognizing that others' circumstances might not be ideal does not imply a desire for more government intervention.

So, you are willing to disregard your own personal experience in favor of statistics which you have no idea how reliable they really are?

Or, is your circle of friends and relations Miserable (due to economic circumstances - not the effect of your company)?

Here's a good question. Should I personally feel miserable about the state of the government? Should I let it weigh me down so much that it seriously affects my emotional state? Is that the requirement to wish to have improvements in the government?
I'm happy right now, not because of the government, but because of so many other things in my life. I still have my fair share of problems, but the good outweighs the bad so much for me that I don't let it get me down.

So, you are willing to disregard your own personal experience in favor of statistics which you have no idea how reliable they really are?
I'm willing to disregard or at least discount my own personal experience in favor of statistics whose validity I can evaluate because, unlike some, I know how to perform such an evaluation. Presenting statistics of unknown validity as the only alternative is just a cheap attempt to present a false dichotomy.

People making the best of a situation doesn't mean that things are as perfect as they could be. Life still goes on.

What is so miserable aboug 4.4% unemployment and record home ownership?

You have a link to back up those statistics?
Just curious about them.

What is so miserable aboug 4.4% unemployment and record home ownership?
Stagnant wages that don't address inflation & overpriced real estate.

For a real view of how the economy is going, check & see how many more people now can afford healthcare.

I'm not changing the subject. I am pointing out the cognitive dissonance of people who are themselves happy but think that Life In General Sucks and requires More Government Intervention.

Maybe if you quit making things up and then telling yourself that those things that you made up are really the thoughts of the majority of the country, then you'd stop having this problem.

...not that you have any evidence of that.I don't see it as silly or rude. It's simply indicative of the poll results so far. Liberals constantly whine about a lack of government programs that could help the poor, about Republicans and the economy and a dozen other things. Apparently this doesn't make them miserable enough to vote in a way that indicates their misery. In fact they seem happy despite all the whining. This could easily lead one to believe that all is well and that the problems are merely perceived. Maybe the last option would have been more appropriate for you.

F&L, here's your problem.
You think that we comment on these problems and wish to solve these problems because you seem to think that they are our problems. You have some sort of opinion that we are self-centered. It's not really true. I enjoy my life right now. I love it. The fact that there are families in this country who are poor, homeless, or somehow destitute does not affect me to the point where I feel miserable. I feel that it is a wrong that should be corrected, but I do not let it affect my personal well-being. If I let every problem in the world affect my well-being like that, I'd be totally miserable and probably kill myself. Just because we don't let it affect us on such a deep level, that doesn't mean we don't care about it.
You think that we are miserable because we live in the greatest country on this planet yet we still have poverty.

I don't see it as silly or rude. It's simply indicative of the poll results so far. Liberals constantly whine about a lack of government programs that could help the poor, about Republicans and the economy and a dozen other things. Apparently this doesn't make them miserable enough to vote in a way that indicates their misery. In fact they seem happy despite all the whining. This could easily lead one to believe that all is well and that the problems are merely perceived. Maybe the last option would have been more appropriate for you.

Well, rightwingers always whinge about how the country will be ruined and we'll be enslaved by homosexual Stalinist robots if the Democrats have their way, and yet the Democrats now control both chambers of the Congress, and by the rightwinger whinging, also the Supreme Court and the majority of the federal benches. So, shouldn't you all be miserable now that America has spoken?

Why, we still have W on our side to block whatever the democrats try to do. The stalemate in government will continue at least until the next election. So, in reality the democrats won nothing. And that makes me happy, not miserable.

how the country will be ruined and we'll be enslaved by homosexual Stalinist robots if the Democrats have their wayThat's just silly.

Wow. The Homosexual Stalinist Robots must be totally incompetent. I have observed Null Set Gulags in the SF-Berkeley-Oakland Triangle, which should be ground zero for a Pogrom.

Maybe, when it's all boiled down to it, the rightwingers expect to be miserable and blame it on government, but the normal people, while seeing a great deal of room for improvement in the government, still live their lives and enjoy being with family & friends, and getting out and living life.

I think it's the obsessive/compulsive nature of rightwhingers that makes them unable to comprehend that, and so assume it's congnative dissonance when people aren't miserable and unhappy with their lives every time they don't get their way. I guess they just don't understand that not everyone thinks like they do.

.... Just because we don't let it affect us on such a deep level, that doesn't mean we don't care about it.Here's your problem and it's another big one.

It's very simple, we all want to see everyone live long and fruitful lives. But, dmeocrats seem to think that the only way to help people is to force other people, at gunpoint, to donate to a government run charity. Try using your own money for a change so that you can be appropriately miserable.

It's very simple, we all want to see everyone live long and fruitful lives. But, dmeocrats seem to think that the only way to help people is to force other people, at gunpoint, to donate to a government run charity. Try using your own money for a change so that you can be appropriately miserable.

So the 6 billion a month being spent to "free" the Iraqis is all being funded by a giant rightwinger charity? Or do certain people think the entire US Government and all wage-earning Americans actually are a giant rightwinger charity?

Here's your problem and it's another big one.

It's very simple, we all want to see everyone live long and fruitful lives. But, dmeocrats seem to think that the only way to help people is to force other people, at gunpoint, to donate to a government run charity. Try using your own money for a change so that you can be appropriately miserable.


It is rather telling. The Lefties in this thread are somehow competent enough to figure out how to live satisfying lives - but they disdain The Great Unwashed Masses' abilities to do the same. This is just more evidence that those who promote Big Government intend to Be The Elite Who Tell Everyone Else How To Live.

Here's your problem and it's another big one.

It's very simple, we all want to see everyone live long and fruitful lives. But, dmeocrats seem to think that the only way to help people is to force other people, at gunpoint, to donate to a government run charity. Try using your own money for a change so that you can be appropriately miserable.

I do use my own time and money. Sadly, it's not enough. If we ended those programs, you wouldn't spend any of that money that you might save, would you? Would most people? No.
But I also believe that since we live in America, there is no excuse for any American to be left behind like that.

It is rather telling. The Lefties in this thread are somehow competent enough to figure out how to live satisfying lives - but they disdain The Great Unwashed Masses' abilities to do the same. This is just more evidence that those who promote Big Government intend to Be The Elite Who Tell Everyone Else How To Live.
What, yall don't?
That's a hoot.

Maybe, when it's all boiled down to it, the rightwingers expect to be miserable and blame it on government, but the normal people, while seeing a great deal of room for improvement in the government,Seeing the need for a great deal of improvement? Is that what democrats are calling it these days? It sure smells a lot blame.

still live their lives and enjoy being with family & friends, and getting out and living life.We all do these things.

I guess they just don't understand that not everyone thinks like they do.If you thought like a conservative, you'd be less miserable.

The responses in this thread lead me to believe that conservatives seem to be more miserable. They're the ones whining about how liberals aren't whining and miserable.

I don't GROK why the Libs are not consumed with Guilt for Being Happy when so many unfortunates are leading such miserable lives due to lack of government programs.

I should have included a poll option for:

I am happy, but feel really guilty about it because the Government Should Do More.

It is rather telling. The Lefties in this thread are somehow competent enough to figure out how to live satisfying lives - but they disdain The Great Unwashed Masses' abilities to do the same. This is just more evidence that those who promote Big Government intend to Be The Elite Who Tell Everyone Else How To Live.

The irony of this coming from a rightwhinger is over the top.

That's because we're not driven by guilt. You assume that we are, but we're not.
No wonder you don't understand liberals. You don't even understand our motivations.

So the 6 billion a month being spent to "free" the Iraqis is all being funded by a giant rightwinger charity?No, it's part of the war against terror. Are you in favor of terror? The right wing doesn't run charities. Charities don't have tanks and aircraft.

No, it's part of the war against terror. Are you in favor of terror? The right wing doesn't run charities. Charities don't have tanks and aircraft.

If it was about terror, wouldn't they be in Afghanistan? Or did Bin Laden relocate?

I do use my own time and money. Sadly, it's not enough. Well make more money so you can have it taken from you. Somehow this will make you less miserable.

But I also believe that since we live in America, there is no excuse for any American to be left behind like that.Being irresponsible as hell is a fine excuse.

If it was about terror, wouldn't they be in Afghanistan? Or did Bin Laden relocate?We are in Afganistan, along with NATO. Terrorists exist in more than one country.

Terrorist =/= Afghan

Thank you for telling me that I am miserable. I didn't know that I was miserable, but once again you are here to tell me how I think, feel, and most importantly, what I believe. Thank you for explaining this to me again.
In fact, I want you to tell me everything else about myself since you know everything about me and I clearly know nothing about myself.

I even made you a thread.
http://www.discussanything.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1423354#post1423354

I really do appreciate the fact that I have someone like you in the world. I'd be living in the dark still if it weren't for you.

I'm slightly miserable at the moment, but only because I just woke up! (Fear not, I'm off from both jobs today.)

Life will be peachier once I get some coffee in me. :D

We are in Afganistan, along with NATO. Terrorists exist in more tha one country.

You'll have to explain to me how Iraq is a bigger threat than Afghanistan & other countries. Because judging on how where your soldiers are deployed, that's what it looks like.

I'm slightly miserable at the moment, but only because I just woke up! (Fear not, I'm off from both jobs today.)

Life will be peachier once I get some coffee in me. :D


Coffee IS God!

:nice:

No, it's part of the war against terror. Are you in favor of terror? The right wing doesn't run charities. Charities don't have tanks and aircraft.

No. The terrorists were there until we attacked.

That's because we're not driven by guilt. You assume that we are, but we're not.
No wonder you don't understand liberals. You don't even understand our motivations.It would appear that you're motivated to steal money from millions of Americans and use the money to bribe millions of other Americans into voting for your political party. It's not surprising that you feel no guilt, thieves seldom do. Perhap the difference is that conservatives are happy throughout, but liberals need to project happiness on the surface so that no one can see how miserable they are deep down.

Life is more than grand...

Back in 2001, I was in a car accident which broke 11 bones and put me in a coma for 9 days...

So I'm on bonus time from here on out...:nice:

Thank you for telling me that I am miserable. I didn't know that I was miserable, but once again you are here to tell me how I think, feel, and most importantly, what I believe. Thank you for explaining this to me again.
In fact, I want you to tell me everything else about myself since you know everything about me and I clearly know nothing about myself.

I even made you a thread.
http://www.discussanything.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1423354#post1423354

I really do appreciate the fact that I have someone like you in the world. I'd be living in the dark still if it weren't for you.I know! Isn't it amazing how messed up you are. Don't worry, I'm here to help.

Terrorist =/= Afghan

The same can be said of Iraqis.

It would appear that you're motivated to steal money from millions of Americans and use the money to bribe millions of other Americans into voting for your political party. It's not surprising that you feel no guilt, thieves seldom do. Perhap the difference is that conservatives are happy throughout, but liberals need to project happiness on the surface so that no one can see how miserable they are deep down.

No, I'm happy. I know why I'm happy, and it was all my own doing. I made myself happy. Most of this country doesn't vote anyway. So why would I want to try to bribe millions into voting for my party (and I don't even have a party--I registered Independent). I don't consider it thieving.
I think what it boils down to is quite simple. I do not believe that freedom and equality are mutually exclusive. I believe that individuals such as yourself seem to believe that freedom demands inequality. Or, in other words, that there must be an elite and those who are lost to society.
I refuse to believe that.

I know! Isn't it amazing how messed up you are. Don't worry, I'm here to help.

I didn't even know I was messed up until you just told me!
I wish I were enough of a prick to tell other people that I know more about themselves than they do.

You'll have to explain to me how Iraq is a bigger threat than Afghanistan & other countries. Because judging on how where your soldiers are deployed, that's what it looks like.I didn't say Iraq was a bigger threat. If your going to fight a war against a stateless enemy, you still have to pick someplace to have it. Iraq was as good a place as any. Does this make you miserable?

I didn't say Iraq was a bigger threat. If your going to fight a war against a stateless enemy, you still have to pick someplace to have it. Iraq was as good a place as any. Does this make you miserable?

No. But hearing about good people giving their lives without cause makes me feel for them. I also feel for all those that are overtaxed & underpaid so the government can fund it's 'my willie is bigger than your willie' campaign.
I can feel sympathy without spiralling down into a cavern of misery.

I know! Isn't it amazing how messed up you are. Don't worry, I'm here to help.


If you really wanted to help him, you would lobby the government to create a new program.

Life is more than grand...

Back in 2001, I was in a car accident which broke 11 bones and put me in a coma for 9 days...

So I'm on bonus time from here on out...:nice:


Wow! That does give one perspective, doesn't it?

If you really wanted to help him, you would lobby the government to create a new program.

So much for permanent ignore, huh? But don't worry, I won't hold it against you.

I'm happy. The government is in lousy hands right now, but we have survived them before, and can again. Thankfully, Bush got some judges in place that will help keep things going.

I didn't say Iraq was a bigger threat. If your going to fight a war against a stateless enemy, you still have to pick someplace to have it. Iraq was as good a place as any. Does this make you miserable?

Hahaha. Nah, they were already in Afghanistan. We should have done it there. According to your hero George W., we decided to attack the Iraqis to "help" them and to allieve their suffering.

Anyway, this whole thread is just a rightwhinger projecting her stale and bitter misery onto everyone else.

The whole thing is absurd.

I think what it boils down to is quite simple. I do not believe that freedom and equality are mutually exclusive. I believe that individuals such as yourself seem to believe that freedom demands inequality. Or, in other words, that there must be an elite and those who are lost to society.
I refuse to believe that.We'll never achieve financial equality among the people as the opportunities people have will never be equal. Financial equality has nothing to do with freedom as the poor can still exercise their constitutional rights. Where we've always disagreed is the meaning of "promote the general welfare". To me it means that if government does do anything for society, all should benefit all equally. Clearly redistribution of wealth is not equal to all citizens.


I didn't even know I was messed up until you just told me!
I wish I were enough of a prick to tell other people that I know more about themselves than they do.It's a gift!

I find it rather ironic that people who disdain Capitalism think Freedom and Equality equal Money.

We'll never achieve financial equality among the people as the opportunities people have will never be equal. Financial equality has nothing to do with freedom as the poor can still exercise their constitutional rights. Where we've always disagreed is the meaning of "promote the general welfare". To me it means that if government does do anything for society, all should benefit all equally. Clearly redistribution of wealth is not equal to all citizens.

I'm not asking for financial equality. Some people are born rich, others are born poor. That's communism you think I'm advocating. I'm not. Some people get screwed over by circumstance. They may need a helping hand. I say we give them a helping hand. Teach a man how to fish, but if he hasn't eaten in days, he's not going to be particularly able-bodied.

I find it rather ironic that people who disdain Capitalism think Freedom and Equality equal Money.

If you're going to claim that you have me on ignore, then try not talking about me either.

This thread reminds me of the Martin Luther King monument thread: it provides an occasion for a few individuals to have an imaginary argument with imaginary opponents. The primary advantage of the argument being imaginary is that the individuals involved can actually win the argument.

It's like someone placing her hand on top of her head and saying, "I'm THIS tall."

And yet, you cannot resist reading and replying!

:nice:

This thread reminds me of the Martin Luther King monument thread: it provides an occasion for a few individuals to have an imaginary argument with imaginary opponents. The primary advantage of the argument being imaginary is that the individuals involved can actually win the argument.

It's like someone placing her hand on top of her head and saying, "I'm THIS tall."

Debate? There's no facts or explanations being countered, it's merely a place to Capitalize Meaningless Words.

I love this thread.

Debate? There's no facts or explanations being countered, it's merely a place to Capitalize Meaningless Words.

Well, there may be a "debate" going on somewhere, in someone's head. Lord knows what it's all about, however.

Hahaha. Nah, they were already in Afghanistan. We should have done it there. According to your hero George W., we decided to attack the Iraqis to "help" them and to allieve their suffering.Afghanistan was an obvious target for us. But, we needed to have a presence in the middle east. Iraq was the weakest player and a better strategic location. The terrorists would have shown up wherever we went. We need to be in a position to protect our economy/oil if necessary. W's far from being a genius, but he's smarter than most give him credit for. W used the help them and aleve suffering crap to pull on liberal heart strings so that emotional democrats would vote for war.

Well, there may be a "debate" going on somewhere, in someone's head. Lord knows what it's all about, however.

She is right, everyone came to play with Boe...knowing what would happen. The joke's on us.

W used the help them and aleve suffering crap to pull on liberal heart strings so that emotional democrats would vote for war.

Wow, that's so clever. W will go down in history for this particular piece of cleverness.

^ Like a Moth to the Flame.

Postwhore the 100th post again?
Out of love, I do these things.

I'm not asking for financial equality. Some people are born rich, others are born poor. That's communism you think I'm advocating. I'm not. Some people get screwed over by circumstance. They may need a helping hand. I say we give them a helping hand. Teach a man how to fish, but if he hasn't eaten in days, he's not going to be particularly able-bodied.Here's twenty bucks, go buy him some food. Problem is, that only amounts to a band-aid, not a permanent cure. I'd be more inclined to donate to causes that provide job skill training. Handouts don't provide a way out, they only create never ending dependency.

Here's twenty bucks, go buy him some food. Problem is, that only amounts to a band-aid, not a permanent cure. I'd be more inclined to donate to causes that provide job skill training. Handouts don't provide a way out, they only create never ending dependency.

There are programs out there like that already. Just nobody knows about them. Besides, we need to consider the practical aspects.
Oh, and around here, welfare checks do not provide an income with which you can live.
And handouts can provide a way out. Food in your belly, the ability to get cleaned up for a job. There are programs (government programs, no less) that will help you with your resume. Also, unemployment checks don't last forever.

Wow, that's so clever. W will go down in history for this particular piece of cleverness.It worked didn't it?

I think claiming that there was evidence of WMD and capitalizing on post-9/11 fears is what worked. Not the post-"Mission Accomplished" claims that worked.

It worked didn't it?

Nothing has worked for Bush in Iraq. It's a complete failure of world historical proportions.

As for the pathetic democrats supporting it, I think you're wrong. I think they went along not based on "sympathy" for Iraqis (which is attributing a human and honorable emotion to politicians and therefore mistaken per se), but based on America's fetish for all things military within the framework of the fake "war on terror." The fact that it involved military action was sufficient, apart from any justifications or rationales, to secure support from the gutless, unprincipled, brainless collection of slag in Congress.

ROFLMAO!!!!

Syracuse University professor Arthur C. Brooks is about to become the darling of the religious right in America -- and it's making him nervous.

The child of academics, raised in a liberal household and educated in the liberal arts, Brooks has written a book that concludes religious conservatives donate far more money than secular liberals to all sorts of charitable activities, irrespective of income.

In the book, he cites extensive data analysis to demonstrate that values advocated by conservatives -- from church attendance and two-parent families to the Protestant work ethic and a distaste for government-funded social services -- make conservatives more generous than liberals.

The book, titled "Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservatism" (Basic Books, $26), is due for release Nov. 24.

When it comes to helping the needy, Brooks writes: "For too long, liberals have been claiming they are the most virtuous members of American society. Although they usually give less to charity, they have nevertheless lambasted conservatives for their callousness in the face of social injustice."

For the record, Brooks, 42, has been registered in the past as a Democrat, then a Republican, but now lists himself as independent, explaining, "I have no comfortable political home."

Since 2003 he has been director of nonprofit studies for Syracuse University's Maxwell School of Citizenship and Public Affairs.

(snip)

His book, he says, is carefully documented to withstand the scrutiny of other academics, which he said he encourages.

The book's basic findings are that conservatives who practice religion, live in traditional nuclear families and reject the notion that the government should engage in income redistribution are the most generous Americans, by any measure.

Conversely, secular liberals who believe fervently in government entitlement programs give far less to charity. They want everyone's tax dollars to support charitable causes and are reluctant to write checks to those causes, even when governments don't provide them with enough money....

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/204/story_20419_1.html

Afghanistan was an obvious target for us. But, we needed to have a presence in the middle east. Iraq was the weakest player and a better strategic location. The terrorists would have shown up wherever we went. We need to be in a position to protect our economy/oil if necessary. W's far from being a genius, but he's smarter than most give him credit for. W used the help them and aleve suffering crap to pull on liberal heart strings so that emotional democrats would vote for war.

You guys keep changing your excuses for it to retrofit what has happened last.

It's pretty weak.

Oh, and around here, welfare checks do not provide an income with which you can live.They shouldn't be getting a government check at all.

There are programs (government programs, no less) that will help you with your resume.I know, we've got programs for damned near everything. Let's get rid of them. I can think of a couple that would save the taxpayer over a trillion dollars a year.

They shouldn't be getting a government check at all.

I know people who really don't have a choice in the matter.

I know, we've got programs for damned near everything. Let's get rid of them. I can think of a couple that would save the taxpayer over a trillion dollars a year.

Yeah, but you have never met anyone who needed them.

ROFLMAO!!!!

Syracuse University professor Arthur C. Brooks is about to become the darling of the religious right in America -- and it's making him nervous.

The child of academics, raised in a liberal household and educated in the liberal arts, Brooks has written a book that concludes religious conservatives donate far more money than secular liberals to all sorts of charitable activities, irrespective of income.

In the book, he cites extensive data analysis to demonstrate that values advocated by conservatives -- from church attendance and two-parent families to the Protestant work ethic and a distaste for government-funded social services -- make conservatives more generous than liberals.

The book, titled "Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservatism" (Basic Books, $26), is due for release Nov. 24.

When it comes to helping the needy, Brooks writes: "For too long, liberals have been claiming they are the most virtuous members of American society. Although they usually give less to charity, they have nevertheless lambasted conservatives for their callousness in the face of social injustice."

For the record, Brooks, 42, has been registered in the past as a Democrat, then a Republican, but now lists himself as independent, explaining, "I have no comfortable political home."

Since 2003 he has been director of nonprofit studies for Syracuse University's Maxwell School of Citizenship and Public Affairs.

(snip)

His book, he says, is carefully documented to withstand the scrutiny of other academics, which he said he encourages.

The book's basic findings are that conservatives who practice religion, live in traditional nuclear families and reject the notion that the government should engage in income redistribution are the most generous Americans, by any measure.

Conversely, secular liberals who believe fervently in government entitlement programs give far less to charity. They want everyone's tax dollars to support charitable causes and are reluctant to write checks to those causes, even when governments don't provide them with enough money....

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/204/story_20419_1.html

What that tells me is that the Conservative government would rather shrug the responsibility of the needy onto the citizens themselves, than trying to, as an organization, do something about it that will actually remedy the problem. Conservatives donating to the needy is only a bandaid, it offers no resolution to the issue.

You guys keep changing your excuses for it to retrofit what has happened last.

It's pretty weak.You guys? I've been saying this since the war began.

You guys? I've been saying this since the war began.

Yes, you've said it before. But then Cindy Sheehan has been saying the same thing too, so it's not very original.

You guys? I've been saying this since the war began.

Oh, sorry. You usually agree with the screaming bush-bots on stuff. I didn't know you were, like those of us outside of the GOP, aware that Bush was lying his ass off about the reason he wanted to attack the Iraqis.

I know people who really don't have a choice in the matter.Not governments fault.



Yeah, but you have never met anyone who needed them.I do know people who use these programs, but don't really need them. Take my aunt for instance. She had a heart valve replaced when she was in her twenties and wound up paralyzed on the left side of her body. She's been collecting social security benefits for 40 some years despite the fact that her husband had a good job and died fifteen years ago leaving her a few million dollars. Cut her off. I realize for some that the situation is more dire, but death is the best motivator.

I do know people who use these programs, but don't really need them. Take my aunt for instance. She had a heart valve replaced when she was in her twenties and wound up paralyzed on the left side of her body. She's been collecting social security benefits for 40 some years despite the fact that her husband had a good job and died fifteen years ago leaving her a few million dollars. Cut her off. I realize for some that the situation is more dire, but death is the best motivator.

That's sick. :nonono:

Are people only worth something when they can contribute?
How do your children redeem their existence.

I hope your children never have that idea when you are old & in need.

Yes, you've said it before. But then Cindy Sheehan has been saying the same thing too, so it's not very original.
Oh, sorry. You usually agree with the screaming bush-bots on stuff. I didn't know you were, like those of us outside of the GOP, aware that Bush was lying his ass off about the reason he wanted to attack the Iraqis.I can't help it that supposedly intellectual democrats in congress were gullible enough to be duped into believing W. But wait, I though W was the complete idiot.

Not governments fault.

Nor is it my fault, but I don't feel that the only problems that I should try to help alleviate are the ones that I created. That's kind of what the concept of charity is, too, you know.

I do know people who use these programs, but don't really need them. Take my aunt for instance. She had a heart valve replaced when she was in her twenties and wound up paralyzed on the left side of her body. She's been collecting social security benefits for 40 some years despite the fact that her husband had a good job and died fifteen years ago leaving her a few million dollars. Cut her off. I realize for some that the situation is more dire, but death is the best motivator.

Or how about we re-assess the way we issue the money and stuff?

That's sick. :nonono:

Are people only worth something when they can contribute?It's not what they're worth, it's how well they've planned and if they can afford the inevitable. It's not governments fault that people get sick or don't prepare for life's tragedies.

I can't help it that supposedly intellectual democrats in congress were gullible enough to be duped into believing W. But wait, I though W was the complete idiot.

Some would say, perhaps naively, that a President who lies to Congress about the basis for going to war, isn't clever so much as unfit for the Office, and that this sort of deception goes a long way toward destroying our system of governance and amounts to treason.

It's not what they're worth, it's how well they've planned and if they can afford the inevitable. It's not governments fault that people get sick or don't prepare for life's tragedies.

Nor is it necessarily the fault of the people. Not all of us have the ability to plan ahead and save lots of money in our early twenties. Most of us are trying to find a job and figuring out how to pay off student loans.

But wait, I though W was the complete idiot.

He is. Look at the mess he made in Iraq. A cursory glance of the plan was enough to know this would happen.

It's just the Democrats in 2002 were complete candy-asses and caved in to political preassure.

It's not what they're worth, it's how well they've planned and if they can afford the inevitable. It's not governments fault that people get sick or don't prepare for life's tragedies.

By that, I expect you won't be collecting your social security when the time comes, and when the money you've put away for retirement is gone because the investors ****ed up, are you going to make sure you aren't relying on government money to sustain you?

When you have a stroke at the age of fifty, and your insurance company refuses to pay you, what do you do then so you aren't a burden?

I can't help it that supposedly intellectual democrats in congress were gullible enough to be duped into believing W. But wait, I though W was the complete idiot.

The fact that you consider someone who gets away with lying to be clever doesn't speak well of your moral integrity. (Not mentioning here the fact that the lies concern the reasons for sending people to die, killing, mass destruction, undermine our constitutional system of government and betray the public trust etc.)

Nor is it my fault, but I don't feel that the only problems that I should try to help alleviate are the ones that I created. That's kind of what the concept of charity is, too, you know.Indeed it is. If that is your voluntary choice, then all is well and you have performed a commendable service to your fellow man.

Or how about we re-assess the way we issue the money and stuff?[/quote]How about we expect people to be responsible for themselves?

Some would say, perhaps naively, that a President who lies to Congress about the basis for going to war, isn't clever so much as unfit for the Office, and that this sort of deception goes a long way toward destroying our system of governance and amounts to treason.Good luck proving that one. About every prominent democrat and world leader was quoted saying that Iraq had WMD's. If W's guilty, they all are. Pretty slick, huh.

What a tired Lefty Bromide: Bush Lied.

:rolleyes:

And it is OFF TOPIC, to boot.

Indeed it is. If that is your voluntary choice, then all is well and you have performed a commendable service to your fellow man.

Make it voluntary, and you'll see a tremendous increase in people suffering in this country.

How about we expect people to be responsible for themselves?

It's a good idea, but sometimes things happen that we need help. The pure independent died long ago. Let's not try to revive him in a world where he cannot survive.


And somebody tell boe that this whole thread has gone off topic. Everything is fair game.

By that, I expect you won't be collecting your social security when the time comes, and when the money you've put away for retirement is gone because the investors ****ed up, are you going to make sure you aren't relying on government money to sustain you?I'm doing everything I can to avoid government dependency. I'm certainly not counting on social security. If taxes were lower it would be easier, but the irresponsible require money ......

When you have a stroke at the age of fifty, and your insurance company refuses to pay you, what do you do then so you aren't a burden?Depend on family. If I was in spot where I was going to become a burden to the taxpayer, I'd have to find a way to kill myself. My concern is that I have the stroke you mentioned and I come out of it physically or mentally incapable of killing myself.

I'm doing everything I can to avoid government dependency. I'm certainly not counting on social security. If taxes were lower it would be easier, but the irresponsible require money ......

Depend on family. If I was in spot where I was going to become a burden to the taxpayer, I'd have to find a way to kill myself. My concern is that I have the stroke you mentioned and I come out of it physically or mentally incapable of killing myself.

If you are worried what happens to you when you are incapacitated, get a living will made.

Don't you think that God's will is that you stay here & do his work until he calls you home? Why do you feel it is up to people to judge for themselves when it is time to die?

Make it voluntary, and you'll see a tremendous increase in people suffering in this country. Or, a tremendous upswing in the area of individual responsibility and personal accountability.

It's a good idea, but sometimes things happen that we need help. The pure independent died long ago. Let's not try to revive him in a world where he cannot survive.A great many Americans live free of government dependence. Does this make you miserable?

And somebody tell boe that this whole thread has gone off topic. Everything is fair game.It's back now.

Or, a tremendous upswing in the area of individual responsibility and personal accountability.

No. Simply, no. You'll see an increase of wealth stratification and a regression of society.

A great many Americans live free of government dependence. Does this make you miserable?

Stop that ****ing bullshit now. It's ****ing old and stupid.

It's back now.

No it's not. You're baiting.

If you are worried what happens to you when you are incapacitated, get a living will made.Good idea.

Don't you think that God's will is that you stay here & do his work until he calls you home?I believe you just die and go home. God doesn't call and how or when we go home is irrelevant.

Why do you feel it is up to people to judge for themselves when it is time to die?Because physical death is trivial. Our soul is the only thing we really have and only God can take it away.

Good idea.

I believe you just die and go home. God doesn't call and how or when we go home is irrelevant.

Because physical death is trivial. Our soul is the only thing we really have and only God can take it away.


What if you're wrong? What if life is all we have?

No. Simply, no. You'll see an increase of wealth stratification and a regression of society.As opposed to the oppression and inequality created by redistribution. Sorry Bud, no sale. Suffer through it and we'll be better off for it in the end.



Stop that ****ing bullshit now. It's ****ing old and stupid.

No it's not. You're baiting.You just went from semi normal to rabid dog in one post. What's up with that? I guess I pushed the wrong button and that you really are miserable now.

If you have nothing nice to say, then don't say anything at all.
I'm taking that one to heart right now.

What if you're wrong? What if life is all we have?I have faith that there is more.

If you have nothing nice to say, then don't say anything at all.
I'm taking that one to heart right now.Are you intentionally trying to get the thread locked or something? Why are you so pissed off all of a sudden?

I have faith that here is more.
With your train of thought, you'd definitely have to. :(

With your train of thought, you'd definitely have to. :(Why a frown?

Are you intentionally trying to get the thread locked or something? Why are you so pissed off all of a sudden?

Disrespect is disrespect. You've disrespected me twice in this thread. Once was too much.
If you can't respond in a civil manner, that's not my problem. But I won't partake in it.

Why a frown?

Your putting all your chips on one square.

life is Good :nice:


I have yet to meet anyone who doesn't aim for the stars.
I have and I avoid such people....negative people can make a person feel miserable

Oh, the brilliance of your brain fart - it blinds us.
Because people are able to maintain a balance of general happiness in their lives, the things they do complain about are somehow non-existant?
We have to be completely miserable in order to point out the problems around us?

Where did you get a license to use your brain, I wonder? With statements such as the one you just graced us with... I half expect you to BLAME us for being be happy with your next exhalation.

M.You sound miserable....Move back to the States

Anyway, this whole thread is just a rightwhinger projecting her stale and bitter misery onto everyone else.
Sounds like you are trying to drag people down. Is this because you are miserable and you need company?

It's just the Democrats in 2002 were complete candy-asses and caved in to political preassure.uhm....so you have been ecstatic the past 2 weeks because you have voted in a bunch of candy-ass wimps that easliy cave into political pressure??? That's what you consider leadership? Sounds, again, like you are surrounding yourself with losers to make you feel better :shrug:

Good luck proving that one. About every prominent democrat and world leader was quoted saying that Iraq had WMD's. If W's guilty, they all are. Pretty slick, huh.

I'm not interested in "proving" anything. I was interested in your thoughts on the subject.

Of course they are all guilty. That's why I am no longer a Democrat. They are as worthless as Bush, if not worse.

It's not "slick." It's disgusting, and symptomatic of a horrific degradation of the standards of leadership in our society, which in turn is symptomatic of a horrific degradation of standards generally.

We have reached the point where we expect our leaders to be corrupt, lying, gutless sacks of shit. It's our fault.

I have and I avoid such people....negative people can make a person feel miserable

I'm sorry that you have met them. I am glad that I haven't met people like that. I've met people who were down and down on their luck, but they still dreamed big.

Report me if I've done something wrong. You seem to have found a way to make yourself miserable.

Your putting all your chips on one square.Isn't that what God requires?

I'm not interested in "proving" anything. I was interested in your thoughts on the subject.

Of course they are all guilty. That's why I am no longer a Democrat. They are as worthless as Bush, if not worse.

It's not "slick." It's disgusting, and symptomatic of a horrific degradation of the standards of leadership in our society, which in turn is symptomatic of a horrific degradation of standards generally.

We have reached the point where we expect our leaders to be corrupt, lying, gutless sacks of shit. It's our fault.Yep. A viable third party is our only hope.

I'm sorry that you have met them. I am glad that I haven't met people like that. I've met people who were down and down on their luck, but they still dreamed big.Dreaming big is a waste of time if you aren't willing to put action to your thoughts. It takes effort, discipline, risk, fortitude, and many more positive qualities if you wish to be any kind of success.

Dreaming big is a waste of time if you aren't willing to put action to your thoughts. It takes effort, discipline, risk, fortitude, and many more positive qualities if you wish to be any kind of success.

It gives hope. Even if the dreams don't come true, at least you have the hope (and therefore the motivation) to go further in life than someone who shoots for only what he thinks he can achieve. It has a great many benefits. Even if the dreams aren't realized, people can still achieve great things that they didn't realize they could.

What a tired Lefty Bromide: Bush Lied.

:rolleyes:


. . .

I can't help it that supposedly intellectual democrats in congress were gullible enough to be duped into believing W.


Hey, F&L, did you know you're a tired lefty?

The fact that you consider someone who gets away with lying to be clever doesn't speak well of your moral integrity. (Not mentioning here the fact that the lies concern the reasons for sending people to die, killing, mass destruction, undermine our constitutional system of government and betray the public trust etc.)

That's always creeped me out (among other things) about rightwingers: they think lying is smart.

Hey, F&L, did you know you're a tired lefty?Golly gee Boo, no. What's a tired lefty?

Afghanistan was an obvious target for us. But, we needed to have a presence in the middle east. Iraq was the weakest player and a better strategic location. The terrorists would have shown up wherever we went. We need to be in a position to protect our economy/oil if necessary. W's far from being a genius, but he's smarter than most give him credit for. W used the help them and aleve suffering crap to pull on liberal heart strings so that emotional democrats would vote for war.

You guys keep changing your excuses for it to retrofit what has happened last.

It's pretty weak.Considering it the same reason I mentioned 4 months ago (http://www.discussanything.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1348201&postcount=1)...which I resposted from a previous forum where I wrote it over 11 months ago (http://www.debatepolitics.com/162310-post8.html)...

...your "changing excuses" comment is not only wrong, but shows you only listen to what you want to hear...

Par for the course...:shrug:

Sheesh, in the 4 1/2 hours I've been out, this thread has increased by 4 pages.

Does it really take all that just to say how miserable (or not) one is around here!? :eek3:

Sheesh, in the 4 1/2 hours I've been out, this thread has increased by 4 pages.

Does it really take all that just to say how miserable (or not) one is around here!? :eek3:

The intentions of this thread were misleading.

Considering it the same reason I mentioned 4 months ago (http://www.discussanything.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1348201&postcount=1)...which I resposted from a previous forum where I wrote it over 11 months ago (http://www.debatepolitics.com/162310-post8.html)...

...your "changing excuses" comment is not only wrong, but shows you only listen to what you want to hear...

Par for the course...:shrug:

Yes, 4.5 months ago. About 3 years after the first excuses, that we had to attack Iraq to get inspectors in, started coming out. You all changed it from that to several other things, and then to "liberating" the Iraqis to death, and now, over the last year, to this new excuse.

Edit:
http://www.discussanything.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95160
http://www.discussanything.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1366981&postcount=47

Golly gee Boo, no. What's a tired lefty?

Have no idea, but, according to Boe, you're using Bromides for Tired Lefties.

Yes, 4.5 months ago. About 3 years after the first excuses, that we had to attack Iraq to get inspectors in, started coming out.
lets see...cnredd wasn't posting 3 years ago but his post 11 months ago matched his post 4 months ago which matches his post today...conclusion...he hasn't been changing his excuse therefore Boo has one more reason to feel miserable

Dreaming big is a waste of time if you aren't willing to put action to your thoughts. It takes effort, discipline, risk, fortitude, and many more positive qualities if you wish to be any kind of success.


Here's the problem with most modern day Liberals' Dreams: they want other people to expend the effort and to pay for them.

lets see...cnredd wasn't posting 3 years ago but his post 11 months ago matched his post 4 months ago which matches his post today...conclusion...he hasn't been changing his excuse therefore Boo has one more reason to feel miserable

No, 11 months ago he was carrying on about WMDs and inspections. Now he's saying it had nothing to do with that, it was all about establishing permanent bases to exert preassure on Mideastern governments.

The story's changed. As always.


You should try to stop lying so much.

stop talking about each other. You're acting like children again.

Yes, children. Play nice. I love my beautiful thread and don't want it to have an untimely demise.

I suspect it's already too far gone.

No it hasn't. Many people have yet to vote and comment upon their relative Misery.

Yeah, about that whole voting thing, can we make a new rule where the purpose of a thread is posted in the OP so we don't have more of these silly threads that are misleading?

Yes, 4.5 months ago. About 3 years after the first excuses, that we had to attack Iraq to get inspectors in, started coming out. You all changed it from that to several other things, and then to "liberating" the Iraqis to death, and now, over the last year, to this new excuse.

Edit:
http://www.discussanything.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95160
http://www.discussanything.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1366981&postcount=47



Have no idea, but, according to Boe, you're using Bromides for Tired Lefties.I see you're still having problems with seeing the forest with all those damn trees in the way...

What you keep seeing without thinking about is that there is no ONE single all-encompassing reason for Iraq...

It's some...it's many...it's all...

Looking for an individual thread where I said A doesn't mean that I've discounted B, C, D & E...

House Resolution 114 provided MULTIPLE reasons for invasion...all were said well before anyone stepped foot in Iraq...

But when I, or anyone else, focuses in on ONE of them because of the topic at hand, that doesn't mean I, or anyone else, threw away the other reasons only to be used again when its convenient...

That's the avenue of accusations we've all seen played here, and as usual, the seven layers of dust are fully intact on it...

Apparently, you like to "stay the course"...:shrug:

I think conservatives in general are happy, because they don't expect anyone or anything else to make them happy, nor are they upset when someone else is happier than they.

Well, in any event, what we've gathered from this thread is that dittoheads are upset that more people aren't miserable.

Also, that any excuse is a good excuse for war. I guess because it makes so many people so miserable.

I think conservatives in general are happy, because they don't expect anyone or anything else to make them happy, nor are they upset when someone else is happier than they.

Then why are they always so bitter? Why this whole thread about how more people should be miserable?

Rightwingers wouldn't be such obsessed, bitter, angry little dittoheads if they were actually happy.

Then why are they always so bitter? Why this whole thread about how more people should be miserable?

Rightwingers wouldn't be such obsessed, bitter, angry little dittoheads if they were actually happy.

I don't know any "obsessed, bitter, angry little dittoheads". Where do you see them, under the bed?

I don't know any "obsessed, bitter, angry little dittoheads". Where do you see them, under the bed?He sees them in the mirror...

I've already explained twice that I don't like Limbaugh, but he's used "dittoheads" as a personal attack while responding to me at least three times in the last couple days...

Guess who's "obsessed"?...:hmm:

No, 11 months ago he was carrying on about WMDs and inspections. Gosh....carrying on about WMD's in a thread titled "WMDs in Iraq ." :rolleyes:
You should try to stop lying so much.you should come up with a different excuse for being terminally wrong all the time other then to call someone a liar. I think it's a symptom of Moonbatis miserablis Take a conservative dose of the truth and call me in the morning

Now he's saying it had nothing to do with that, it was all about establishing permanent bases to exert preassure on Mideastern governments. I must have missed that. When you wake up from you purple haze can you please provide the quote where he said "nothing to do with it (WMD's) "

The story's changed. As always. Not really Boo. The THREADS change as always and we usually discuss a different topic. It adds a little variety to our lives and keeps us from feeling miserable. Maybe that is your problem? You are stuck in a rut and can't get out of your worn out, tired, knee-jerk response to any political discussion.

Yeah, about that whole voting thing, can we make a new rule where the purpose of a thread is posted in the OP so we don't have more of these silly threads that are misleading?nah....that would skew the results of the polls.

I think you're all bitter and need to find a better hobby than obsessing over each other.

I think you're all bitter and need to find a better hobby than obsessing over each other.

I have a ton of hobbies. I just do this when it's slow at work, it's raining, I'm sick, or no one's around to hang out with.

I just get a kick out of how the Fox Republicans/freepers/dittoheads/Coulter fans, or whatever they go by these days, all sit around obsessing over the superiority of "conservatives" over "lefties", when almost everything they say about either group is complete tripe.

That and the fact that the OP is upset that there aren't more miserable people in the world.

I think a person's level of bitterness is generally proportional to their level of interest in politics. I think that's one of the reasons I try to avoid this section of the board.

I love this thread - but I still reqjuire more data in order to develop a Grand Unifying Theory regarding Misery and The Government.

If you haven't responded, please do - and explain your poll choice.

TYIAFYC

I think a person's level of bitterness is generally proportional to their level of interest in politics.


Interesting theory. I guess the difference is how obsessive it becomes. If one is posting on 20 messageboards a day, ranting and raving about the evil other, then one is probably pretty miserable.

U.S. of A and I'm just ducky....even more so come the 20th of next month...

I think a person's level of bitterness is generally proportional to their level of interest in politics. I think that's one of the reasons I try to avoid this section of the board.
Indeed.
Politics are like the weather, everyone bitches about it, but nobody ever does anything about it.

It is a puzzlement - so much misery in the world, and yet, so few people seem to be sincerely bothered by it enough to have it affect their overall wellbeing.

Why do they then wish to take away half of the productivity (or more) of the working population? Guilt, methinks.

Maybe, when it's all boiled down to it, the rightwingers expect to be miserable and blame it on government, but the normal people, while seeing a great deal of room for improvement in the government, still live their lives and enjoy being with family & friends, and getting out and living life.

I think it's the obsessive/compulsive nature of rightwhingers that makes them unable to comprehend that, and so assume it's congnative dissonance when people aren't miserable and unhappy with their lives every time they don't get their way. I guess they just don't understand that not everyone thinks like they do.


I think you have it totally backwards. The people that I most often see whining and complaining, and extremely negative are almost always liberals/leftists.

I honestly can say that in my experience, the people who are the most optimistic are always either moderates or conservatives. All my life the libs/lefties I've known are almost always the negative types with very little hope/trust in people, which is why they always look to government to be the big mamma, and the answer for everything.

A perfect example of this is when I went to college at SF state. Man, I've never seen so many bitter, angry, negative people as some of the leftist professors and many of the students there. But when I'm around normal people, such as friends or family who aren't extreme liberals, they are happy, doing well, and yes, they do care about problems and want to make a positive difference.... it is just that they don't automatically believe the government is always the answer.

ps - completely off topic, but why do you always have the demon avatar?

I think you have it totally backwards. The people that I most often see whining and complaining, and extremely negative are almost always liberals/leftists.

I honestly can say that in my experience, the people who are the most optimistic are always either moderates or conservatives. All my life the libs/lefties I've known are almost always the negative types with very little hope/trust in people, which is why they always look to government to be the big mamma, and the answer for everything.


I don't know what rightwingers you've been talking to.


You liberals make me sick. Your hypocracy is disgusting.



Conservative intellectuals are immune from your close-minded hateful paranoid indoctrination attempts.


LOL...inmates have no values or morals...these are liberals. It can safely claimed that the criminal element is mostly leftist, prostitutes, drug users and dealers etc. Sex, drugs, a good time, taking what you want instead of earning it- these are leftist values.



little candy ass sissies, sore loser, liberals.


Do you think by posting insipid propogandistic gibberish supporting terroists you'll suddenly be thought of as something other than an ignorant retarded bigot? ...


You also gotta wonder why in touch, upper crust, limousine liberal elitist retards, don't use their own money to help. Much cheaper for them to ask the government to steal from hard working motivated Americans, so they can feel better about themselves and yet remain retarded.


There's hundreds of pages of this positive, optimistic, light-hearted and warm and loving "discussion" here. Not a drop of hate in all of it. :rolleyes:


ps - completely off topic, but why do you always have the demon avatar?

I forgot I had it. I have avatars and sigs turned off in preferences, so I haven't seen it since I signed up.

That's a demon? I thought it was a crying teddy bear...

Frankly, that's what I thought it was. I always felt kind of worried about poor BR, that he should have such a sad av all the time.

Middling miserable - but I accept responsibility for my condition.

But it's been a blast! kinda like a movie full of miserable crap but you cant stop watching it so youll see it a hundred times :)

oh yeah and I am in the US

Conservative intellectuals are immune from your close-minded hateful paranoid indoctrination attempts.

Wise words from a wise man. I don't know the context, but it's an obvious display of love directed towards an individual consumed with irrational hatred and manipulatative tendencies, and truth shines like a beacon for all to see. Erase the hate, and let love blossom from within. All would benefit from heeding such sage words. :nice:

I don't know what rightwingers you've been talking to.


There's hundreds of pages of this positive, optimistic, light-hearted and warm and loving "discussion" here. Not a drop of hate in all of it. :rolleyes:




I never said that righties on the internet don't express displeasure with liberals. Liberals also say not-so-nice things about conservatives, what else is new?

I wasn't talking about how conservatives feel about liberals, we were talking about how people feel in general - are they always negative and asking for the gubmint to step in, or are they more content and more optimistic that it's possible to succeed without depending on big mamma government for everything? That was the point.

But thanks for cherry-picking some lovely quotes from conseravtives, on liberals. I'm sure I can find 10 or 20 lovely rightie bashing quotes if I wanted to. In fact, I wouldn't have to look much farther than your posts. ;)

That's a demon? I thought it was a crying teddy bear...


heh... maybe Boo did choose a teddy bear avatar, I dunno. The horns/pointy ears didn't lead me to that, but i've been wrong before. ;)

I am from the U.S and voted - Middling miserable - but I accept responsibility for my condition.

Just lately ( last six months) things have gotten insanely tight financially. I blame myself though because I waited til my 30's to get my butt moving in the right career direction for me. Unfortunately, it pays ridiculously little :(

I wasn't talking about how conservatives feel about liberals


They feel hate. That's the point. The hate is already there, the "liberals" are just a convinient target. If they didn't have "the left" to lash out at and dump all their hate on, it would be someone else . . . arabs, blacks, jews, hispanics -- someone. It wouldn't matter who, as long as they have someone to hate.

All that hate is just too hard for them to contain.

That goes both ways chief. Libs are the same way.

It's pretty simple, Moderates and Conservatives generally accept that real freedom only exists with an equal measure of individual responsibility. This gives them a much more realistic perspective as to the roles of government vs. the individual - and that Big Government is not going to create a Proletariat Utopia.

That goes both ways chief. Libs are the same way.

I'm sure there are people running around trying to associate themselves with an ingroup they identify as "libs", and use politics as a cover for their hate, but I don't see much of it. The vast majority of the people I meet who identify themselves as a member of the ingroup "conservatives" are just using politics as a cover for hate. That's not to say that there aren't individuals who have conservative political views who aren't just angry, bitter, hateful little freaks -- there certainly are -- but there has been a concerted effort by elements of the Republican party to push social identity (http://www.tcw.utwente.nl/theorieenoverzicht/Theory%20clusters/Interpersonal%20Communication%20and%20Relations/Social_Identity_Theory.doc/), using a largely make-beileve outgroup, "liberals/leftists" as a tool to promote group think (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink).

As a result, the majority of people who've replaced their individual identity with the mass-market social identity "conservative" as it's being marketed on Fox and other Republican outlets are just using "conservative" and "leftist/lib" as ingroup and outgroup mechanisms for the sake of social identity building.

I'd say that, back before '94 or so, it was more the other way, but the republicans have made a clear effort to change that.

That's why you see conversations like this:

Normal Person: Bush lied to get us to go into Iraq.
Rightwinger: I HATE YOU LEFTIST COMMUNISTS!

Normal Person: Rumsfeld was terribly incompetent in his planning for the war.
Rightwinger: U JUST HAET AMERICA!!!!!!!!!

As soon as someone makes the point that they don't support the ingroup's communal thinking, the dittoheads label that person as a "leftist/lib" and they immediately hate that person. They're instantly convinced the person hates America, hates freedom, is a communist, hates God, etc.

It's not something that's inherent in conservative political thinking, it's something that's been manufactured by the Republicans through a coordinated marketing and propaganda front.

Or so says I . . . but then, I probably only say that because I'm a terrorist suporting leftist lib anti-freedom communist America hater, or something . . . :rolleyes:

Life is grand.

...as opposed to a leftist screaming:
NEOCON :blas:

Niether side of the aisle has a monopoly on hate.

...as opposed to a leftist screaming:
NEOCON :blas:

Niether side of the aisle has a monopoly on hate.

Unless there's a difference between the inability to distinguish and the unwillingness to.

Not all people who call themselves "conservatives" are neocons, and not even all neocons are what I call dittoheads, which are the people who subscribe to the social identity building mechanisms I mentioned above.

When I start, and I'm sure I will, seeing a lot of "liberal" media that exists almost exclusively to discuss why "liberals" are better people than "conservatives" are, as most of the rightwing media does now, then I'll agree that they're even in their cultitude.

I remember seeing a lot of that back in the 80s and early 90s, but the GOP basically took that approach, and went even farther with it.

Edit: DU would be a good example of that, but that's one outlet compared to hundreds of rightwing ones. That DU/Freeper style group think has become extremely pervasive in the GOP, but it's fallen out in the DNC since the Newt Revolt. Or at least from my experiences.

Sho nuff. It's really a shame. Every time I see a candidate take office and give their speech about how they're going to work with the other party I think "who are you fooling?" It never happens. I had to hold back my laughter when Bush gave his speech after the Dems took the election, basicly apologizing for all the drama that's taken place since 94 and saying that the time has come to work together. It's never going to happen. Both parties are too wrapped up in "us vs them" to ever work together any time soon. It's the whole "us vs them" mentality along with the curruption that's stopping any real progress in this nation. The campaigns never actually stop IMO. They just get more or less obvious. I could go on and on about this and probably take the thread waaaaay off topic, so I'll just stop now.

"I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for," former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean

I don't recall any major GOP leader making such a statement about the Dems.

Dean is such an asshat. Thank god he never became president.

That goes double for Kerry.

under what context is this question being asked? from a purely political perspective, i'd say disappointed. since my expectations of politicians are rather pessimistic i'm never surprised by how they act but still disappointed that things never really change. i stopped subscribing to either political party so either side wining or losing doesnt mean anything to me directly so the idea of being miserable over so and so losing or winning is a little more than silly.

The question is about your general sense of Well-being or Misery - and, if you do feel miserable to any degree, is it your personal responsibility or is it because the government has not created a utopia?

For the most part, I'm a pretty happy person. There are times and situations that make me gnash my teeth and want to smack people with skillets, but, generally, they're of my own making.

I may not be thrilled all the time with my government, but I don't think that I let my dissatisfaction with politicians, (on either side of the aisle), affect my day to day happiness.

edit to add: I'm not so sure that it's government's job to create a utopia for me. I'd be satisfied if it would wisely spend my tax dollars.

I wasn't talking about how conservatives feel about liberals, we were talking about how people feel in general - are they always negative and asking for the gubmint to step in, or are they more content and more optimistic that it's possible to succeed without depending on big mamma government for everything? That was the point.Although it's a generalization, I think the next two sentences sum up a major difference bewteen the ideology of Cons and Libs...

Conservative - "Sure this country has problems...Now let me tell you why this country is so good."...

Liberal - "Sure this country is good...Now let me tell you everything wrong with it."...

Although it's a generalization, I think the next two sentences sum up a major difference bewteen the ideology of Cons and Libs...

Conservative - "Sure this country has problems...Now let me tell you why this country is so good."...

Liberal - "Sure this country is good...Now let me tell you everything wrong with it."...
More like "now let me tell you how it can be improved" really. Liberals always seek improvement, even of something that's already good. Somehow people like you spin that as hate, even though it's pretty obvious that people who hate something aren't likely to spend much energy improving it. The real difference is that conservatives think they and their country are already perfect (or would be if not for those pesky liberals) That's what "conservative" means - to resist change on the theory that any change would be bad. They want to conserve what they see as perfection. As soon as they admit there's a problem that needs solving, they're accused of not being "conservative enough" by the other dead-enders.

Conservative - "Sure this country has problems...Now let me tell you why this country is so good."...


You mean: "What? Why do you hate america?!!!!!!!!!!?? Why not protest FRANCE???Q@@!!!! If you don't like the wayt hings are, just move to IRAN!@!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I don't that's a good representation of the average conservative.

Middling miserable, but it's not the gubmint's fault - even though I live in a dictatorship :p

More like "now let me tell you how it can be improved" really. Liberals always seek improvement, even of something that's already good. Somehow people like you spin that as hate, even though it's pretty obvious that people who hate something aren't likely to spend much energy improving it. The real difference is that conservatives think they and their country are already perfect (or would be if not for those pesky liberals) That's what "conservative" means - to resist change on the theory that any change would be bad. They want to conserve what they see as perfection. As soon as they admit there's a problem that needs solving, they're accused of not being "conservative enough" by the other dead-enders.Conservatives don't expect perfection as they know that perfection is unachievable. Liberals believe that perfection is achievable even though it has never been achieved. Optimism is fine, but it needs to be realistic. Conservative also know that it's beyond the scope and purpose of government to solve societies ills. Liberals think government should be used to solve the ills of society. Keep social programs and "progress" at the state and local level and many of the problems at the federal level will go away.

I've never met a liberal who believes the perfect society is attainable :l

I've met several who honestly believe that Utopian socialism is achievable.

Have you ever met a liberal who though government was doing enough?

I've met very few socialist leftists. In fact, I don't know many socialist leftists. I know lots of capitalist leftists. They believe the ideal society is attainable. Maybe you're confused as to what a leftist believes due to sweeping generalizations?

Liberals believe that perfection is achievable even though it has never been achieved.

Liberals believe that it is possible to have a government that sufficiently embodies liberal principles of justice to secure the willing consent of those governed. This has absolutely nothing to do with "perfection;" on the contrary, it shows how and why a liberal society is capable of improvement by means of sincere and patriotic criticism.

I've never met a liberal who believes the perfect society is attainable :l

Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as oneNice gesture...Unnattainable, but nice gesture...

Conservative - "Sure this country has problems but I don't want to hear about them ... Now let me tell you why this country is so good."...

Liberal - "Sure this country is good...Now let me tell you how to keep it that way."...

I corrected your mistakes

Javaman gets an F for accurate reporting.

You mean: "What? Why do you hate america?!!!!!!!!!!?? Why not protest FRANCE???Q@@!!!! If you don't like the wayt hings are, just move to IRAN!@!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I don't that's a good representation of the average conservative.


Sean Penn should move to Iran

... (http://www.discussanything.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78093)


Churchill is typical of the hate-America academic left

.... (http://www.discussanything.com/forums/showthread.php?referrerid=5762&t=71553)

Of course not. :rolleyes:

I've met very few socialist leftists. In fact, I don't know many socialist leftists. I know lots of capitalist leftists. They believe the ideal society is attainable. Maybe you're confused as to what a leftist believes due to sweeping generalizations?Oh good, so leftists don't care if we eliminate social security and medicare saving the country a trillion or so every year. And socialised medicine must be just some liberal crazy talk. That's good to know.

Liberals believe that it is possible to have a government that sufficiently embodies liberal principles of justice to secure the willing consent of those governed. This has absolutely nothing to do with "perfection;" on the contrary, it shows how and why a liberal society is capable of improvement by means of sincere and patriotic criticism.In other words liberals like to buy votes wit