I'm new to the forums here, so if you have already covered this one, just lemme know where and I'll jump on that one.

In the months following the Sept. 11th attacks on the WTC and Pentagon, the U.S. Government has passed two things on to society at large. One: the FBI's CARNIVORE computer system, which allows the FBI to track, record, catalogue, and who knows what else anybody's e-mail or other electronic communication. Now, theoretically they need a warrant to use this against a citizen of the United States, but who says that they will only use it with a warrant? Is there a failsafe in there somewhere that nobody knows about? I don't think so!

The other thing that has been passed is the Patriot Act. This consists of basically violating any number of constitutional rights of American citizens (wrongful imprisonment, unreasonable search and seizure, held without bail or charges, etc.) simply because someone calls "terrorist" on them.

Now, forgive me if I'm wrong, for I did sleep through a few class periods of my AP U.S. History class last year, but does this sound anything like what America did during the Red Scare and the Cold War to anyone else? I mean, it seems to me like the Patriot Act is just the reincarnation of the Alien and Sedition Acts.

Then again, maybe it's just me.

It is disturbing, I hope the American public pays attention.

Originally posted by Lowtide
It is disturbing, I hope the American public pays attention.

the public, ha! we have prez in office that didnt even get the majority of the popular vote

Originally posted by Kareem
the public, ha! we have prez in office that didnt even get the majority of the popular vote

We will never know that.

Originally posted by RedLine99


We will never know that.

ur damn rite we wont

Clinton 1996 47,402,357 49.24%
Bush 2000 50,455,156 47.87%

At least we know 3 million people prefered GWB to Bil-Hil....;)


And I'd like to see a bunch more attention given to aliens and seditionists. Aliens, deport or execute as spies; seditionists, execute as spies; so far as I can see we are at WAR.

Originally posted by hammegk
Clinton 1996 47,402,357 49.24%
Bush 2000 50,455,156 47.87%

At least we know 3 million people prefered GWB to Bil-Hil....;)

Argh. As silly as I feel it is saying GWB isn't 'our president' it is equally stupid to use that factoid you're using. Clinton got a larger % of the vote, indiciating a larger percentage of the country chose him over Bush in 00.

Why not use a real stat, liek Gore00 vs. Bush00?

Originally posted by Manu


Argh. As silly as I feel it is saying GWB isn't 'our president' it is equally stupid to use that factoid you're using. Clinton got a larger % of the vote, indiciating a larger percentage of the country chose him over Bush in 00.

Why not use a real stat, liek Gore00 vs. Bush00?
OK, I stand corrected. 3,000,000 real, actual voters who were smart enough to actually cast countable ballots is just a 'stupid factoid' and percentages are more accurate than actual data.

Silly me.
:D

Alrighty, I think we've wandered a bit off course here...but since we're here...that factoid quoted has one big problem with it: a big chunk of the blacks in Florida weren't allowed to vote! Which, I suppose, I could link back to another repitition of history in that the disenfranchisement of the African American voters in Florida seems errily like the poll taxes, literacy tests, and other laws passed in the South to keep blacks from voting.

But I won't make that link, because we're off topic already.

Originally posted by Stage Monster
....a big chunk of the blacks in Florida weren't allowed to vote! ....


Horsesh*t. Cite a *credible* source.

Note also the broadcast networks called FL with polling places west of Tallahassee still with over an hour to go. A lot of whites have stated they heard the news & didn't bother to vote since the outcome was already known. The panhandle is basically Republican by past vote records.

The Democratic designed & approved Palm Beach Butterfly Ballot, DID most likely provide Bush the winning margin of those who attempted to vote, ignoring of course the panhandle effect mentioned above, and a fair number of military ballots also ignored by (Democrat) poll workers.

Hey, I didn't place blame on either side, I personally think that both sides screwed up royally. But process being what it is, it's the end that counts. And while I don't support "Dubya" in the white house, there's only so much we can do about it right now. Besides, we've only got until next November to wait, and that's not such a terribly long time.

Check this out (http://www.mises.org/TRTS.htm)


here is a little pamplet i came across. i do not like shrub, i do not like gore. i wish there was a way i could have put a vote in for none of the above or cancel out someone's else's vote.

Originally posted by hammegk


Horsesh*t. Cite a *credible* source.

Note also the broadcast networks called FL with polling places west of Tallahassee still with over an hour to go. A lot of whites have stated they heard the news & didn't bother to vote since the outcome was already known. The panhandle is basically Republican by past vote records.

The Democratic designed & approved Palm Beach Butterfly Ballot, DID most likely provide Bush the winning margin of those who attempted to vote, ignoring of course the panhandle effect mentioned above, and a fair number of military ballots also ignored by (Democrat) poll workers.


We've been over this issue many times before, again you choose to ignore reality. Blacks were intentionally scrubbed from voting. I've even posted a partial list of some of the people.

:topic:

Alright, now we're not only off topic, we're getting petty. The forum's under History, not politics, lets try not to solve the nation's problems in this particular thread. We've got "The Whine Cellar" for that one. :D

Originally posted by Corporate Avenger

We've been over this issue many times before, again you choose to ignore reality. Blacks were intentionally scrubbed from voting. I've even posted a partial list of some of the people.

What don't you understand about the words "credible source"? Repitition of lies don't transform those lies to truth.

Back to history, the repitition of the sequence of events that resulted in WWII are what concern me. Basically, talk-talk-talk until it's too late. Or another 'Nam, start strong and keep shooting yourself until you lose.

For the next terrorist action, I'd recommend a few truck bombs set off along the fault zone - area up by Palmdale, say - just to see what might happen. See how the left coast feels after that one.

But actually I'd like to see the profiling and assesment of the group most likely to do such an act, say young men with known middle-east/islamic fundamentalist ties and contacts. I don't mind POW status for the detainees selected.

I think that the "left coast" would probably feel almost exactly the same as they do now. That's the thing about a standpoint: it should stay constant, no matter if it happens to you or someone else.

What does your signature translate to?

I find this whole thing disturbing but I think the american people will accept this the same way they accepted the WW 1 alien and Sedation act and all the Post WW2 Macarthyist actions. During time of war or national emergency the government will always do what it can to secure the safety of its citizens, or so it will tell us. Now we be asking ourselves how much freedom is the public willing to give up in the name of security. Though I am not a member of the NRA, and dont care that much for guns, I would use as a point the anti gun legislation. We have seen many new laws passed to restrict ownership of certain weapons. When this happens many right wingers will stand up and cry foul. In a sense I can understand their anger (though I dont necessarily agree with it), but often these same folks will not be angy when such freedoms as freedom of speech, peaceful assembly or association are curtailed against those citizens they deem undesirable. I see it this way, you cant have one set of freedoms without the other. If you say that labor unions, anarchistic groups or pacifistic groups should be harassed then you can just as easily say the same for Militias, the NRA or even religious groups. It all goes hand in hand. Freedom needs to be universal.