"Take a sad song and make it better"-Paul Mc Cartney.

In a recent post jillianjiggs posted a link to The Matthew Sheppard Foundation,that got me thinking [which is always a dangerous thing to do] that I could make a positive out of the negative situation on this board concerning Mr. Sheppard's likeness by making a donation to the foundation,which I did.

Now,I couldn't make a big donation [I'm just a workingman with bills to pay],but I did donate what I could and I know it's beng put to good use.

I would suggest that everyone who is distressed by the way Mr. Sheppard's murder has been used by bigots like Fred Phelps also make a contribution to the foundation.

Can you post the link to the foundation website?

Originally posted by Manu
Can you post the link to the foundation website?

Maybe tomorrow,the library's about to close.

I think it's www.matthewshepard.com

Now isn't he the young man who was murdered due to a hate crime? I think I saw a film done on HBO or MTV not sure maybe both on that ... I think it noble and I would as well (if I could:()

Originally posted by jillianjiggs
I think it's www.matthewshepard.com

Thanks.

www.matthewsheppard.org

Originally posted by jillianjiggs
I think it's www.matthewshepard.com

www.matthewshepard.org [this is the one]

Imagine if I went to two ladies and propositioned them for crude sex acts.

I'd expect to get slapped, yes?

Matthew Shepard did what all "healthy" homosexuals do--he propositioned two healthy cowbys, and got the tar beat out of him.

Unfortunately he was killed in the process...but to think of Shepard as a "poor defenseless victim" is insulting to real victims of sexual attack and social decay.

Wow. Are you advocating such violence as this? Is it okay to beat somebody, drag them, tie them to a post and leave them for dead in any circumstance? Torture and murder for a proposition (that you have no proof of existing) is um...well, a bit barbaric.

Originally posted by jillianjiggs
Wow. Are you advocating such violence as this? Is it okay to beat somebody, drag them, tie them to a post and leave them for dead in any circumstance? Torture and murder for a proposition (that you have no proof of existing) is um...well, a bit barbaric.
What is so ridiculous is that so many of these religious rightists, like the idiots at godhatesfags.com are the same sort of people who advocate the death penalty for anyone. Then when the victum happens to be gay they all start hooting and hollering...
Really sickining if you ask me.

Originally posted by Innocent_Bystander
Imagine if I went to two ladies and propositioned them for crude sex acts.

I'd expect to get slapped, yes?

Matthew Shepard did what all "healthy" homosexuals do--he propositioned two healthy cowbys, and got the tar beat out of him.

Unfortunately he was killed in the process...but to think of Shepard as a "poor defenseless victim" is insulting to real victims of sexual attack and social decay.

Getting slapped and getting killed are by far two different things. The guys that beat him were backasswards white trash types and they were incapable of responding intelligently or dealing with the situation in a rational manner.

If a woman hits on me, I simply turn her down... I don't chase her down and beat her. What the hell good will that do me? Hell, what the hell good did it do them? If they would of put their families before their irrational impulses to beat a human being to death because he was gay and approached them, they wouldn't be where they are now.

Thinking before you act is too much of a task these days I suppose.

I had the wonderful opportunity to see "The Laramie Project", a staged performance documenting the lives of the Laramie citizens after Matthew's murder. It was incredible. I was moved beyond words... really if any of you get the chance to see this, DO IT! From any perspective that you might have on the issue, it can only enlighten you to the real, raw human emotion that came out of this tragedy.

peace

Me

Originally posted by Innocent_Bystander
Imagine if I went to two ladies and propositioned them for crude sex acts.

I'd expect to get slapped, yes?

Matthew Shepard did what all "healthy" homosexuals do--he propositioned two healthy cowbys, and got the tar beat out of him.

Unfortunately he was killed in the process...but to think of Shepard as a "poor defenseless victim" is insulting to real victims of sexual attack and social decay.

i thought they could tell he was gay, and propositioned him or....
*shrug* no wait, take that back, he was dead he has no testimony.

but c'mon,either way, that men could be animals enough to do anything to the point of DEATH is just disgusting.

Actually Turtle o, that's more like the story I heard. They went after him, not the other way around. Even if Matthew DID proposition them, death is NOT an acceptable 'punishment.'

what about the poor heteros who have been oppressed by homosexuals???

How bout a fund for people who ruin threads? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by salach leine
I had the wonderful opportunity to see "The Laramie Project", a staged performance documenting the lives of the Laramie citizens after Matthew's murder. It was incredible. I was moved beyond words... really if any of you get the chance to see this, DO IT! From any perspective that you might have on the issue, it can only enlighten you to the real, raw human emotion that came out of this tragedy.

peace

Me

I saw that too and it was an excellent documentary. Oddly, it was the first time I'd heard that Mr. Shepherd had AIDS and it was inferred also that he was rather promiscuous (picking up multiple partners in a night) and possibly had spread it to who knows how many people. All that has been hushed pretty well, because apart from references from "Laramie Project", you can't find a thing on it on the web.

That's not an excuse of any kind toward the two men who murdered him, but it does make me wonder how many death sentences he himself passed on to others and I find myself wondering if he is an appropriate cause celebre for gay rights.

Ditto on Teena Brandon about whom considerably more information is available and who was a common thief and a liar.

I am not anti-gay, but truth is truth. The gay population probably needs to select people with better character for their role models.

spab

Originally posted by SpabSFW


I saw that too and it was an excellent documentary. Oddly, it was the first time I'd heard that Mr. Shepherd had AIDS and it was inferred also that he was rather promiscuous (picking up multiple partners in a night) and possibly had spread it to who knows how many people. All that has been hushed pretty well, because apart from references from "Laramie Project", you can't find a thing on it on the web.

That's not an excuse of any kind toward the two men who murdered him, but it does make me wonder how many death sentences he himself passed on to others and I find myself wondering if he is an appropriate cause celebre for gay rights.

Ditto on Teena Brandon about whom considerably more information is available and who was a common thief and a liar.

I am not anti-gay, but truth is truth. The gay population probably needs to select people with better character for their role models.

spab

Spab,

Why the media chose Mr Sheperd is about hate crimes what happened to him brought the piont home. I think that in any event meant to bring about change in American society you will always not hear the full trueth. I think that is a given.
No one is pure and no poster child for any event is pure. This is a dream you ask for.
I can't deal with the Aids aspect of it. I think it is Illegal not to tell whomever you are having sex with if you are HIV+ or not. Living in that style of life I would think that they all would insist on it.
It is terrible to think that people would play such games with others lives. Again if I were in such a situation I would ask for proof before having sex with anyone. It does seem that gay men do not care about long relations and i can't figure that out why would one want to many partners. Sometimes feels like there is no direct connection to the feeling of being loved.

About Tenna, so she is a liar and thief does that make what happened to her deservable. What happened to her should happen to no one. What the police did about it was even worse. As is with rape victims she somehow deserved what happened to her. I guess what I'm trying to say is that no one is pure and anyone can dig up dirt on anyone else but no one needs to die because the lie or even steal. Think about where she came from you lobby for the poor everyday. she came from poverty a broken home just like some minorities. She was only 21 and emotionally probably not even that with a sexual identity crisis. She was messed up but didn't deserve what happened to her.
MO
Mysticj

Originally posted by Mysticj


It does seem that gay men do not care about long relations and i can't figure that out why would one want to many partners. Sometimes feels like there is no direct connection to the feeling of being loved.


I disagree with this statement. I don't know the percentages but I do think that most gay people male or female are capable and desirous of long term relationships. I think the promiscuity one associates with bathhouses and the like is the exception, not the norm, but of course I can't prove that. I think in hetero relationships men are probably more promiscuous than women generally, it's possibly just a male thing, not a gay thing on those men that are promiscuous... that drives some men to choose multiple serial short term partners. And I like to think those men are not the majority, gay or straight.

Originally posted by Mysticj

About Tenna, so she is a liar and thief does that make what happened to her deservable. What happened to her should happen to no one. What the police did about it was even worse. As is with rape victims she somehow deserved what happened to her. I guess what I'm trying to say is that no one is pure and anyone can dig up dirt on anyone else but no one needs to die because the lie or even steal. Think about where she came from you lobby for the poor everyday. she came from poverty a broken home just like some minorities. She was only 21 and emotionally probably not even that with a sexual identity crisis. She was messed up but didn't deserve what happened to her.
MO
Mysticj

I actually researched quite a bit on Teena and I do understand where she came from. More than poor, i suspect she is also a sexual abuse survivor although it isn't mentioned specifically. I don't think she is hormonally gay, I think with her it was a reaction - as a male she would consider herself one of the "powerful" instead of the victim.

Her relationships were multiple short and without real caring on her part. For her, they were about power, keeping her identity a secret was more than a choice to get the girls, it was intrinsically about "getting over on" the girls. Once the challenge was gone she moved on, or once they caught her stealing from them or writing hot checks on their accounts. She often stole from one to give to the next one down the line. And the people she stole from were also horribly poor.

And here's the deal, all these relationships were about enabling Teena to "feel powerful" to feel "like a man". Not one of them including the last was about caring for the other person. In fact for Teena, other people were objects to be used and manipulated to gain self-esteem, and safety. I strongly suspect she would have tested out as classic narcissist.

Mystic, I don't think either of these two people or indeed anyone deserves to be murdered for being gay, or even for being human and having failings. I am not excusing the behavior of the murderers or of homophobics.

But I personally find that it invalidates genuine concern for gay rights, for HUMAN rights, to whitewash such public figures. We need to care that Matthew and Teena got murdered even though they were not perfect, because we are not perfect either.

But what I won't do is paint them with a purity brush. To me it lessens the validity of their real pain, and the real tragedy of their deaths.

spab

I'll donate if I can, but also, I'm trying to get the guy on campus who's directing The Laramie Project to let me do something like AD, SM, or ASM the project.

And to all: Keep this cause-oriented, not debate-oriented. Scott brought to light that the thread is getting 'ruined.' I'm tempted to agree, thus far. Keep it on topic or it'll get closed and/or moved. Nobody wants that.

I went a dropped some money also. Also a point of interest for anyone who cares, Elton john wrote a song about this sad event on his songs from the west coast album. I believe he donates some money from the sale of the album to the foundation.regardles though he already donates every penny he makes from all albums and tours in the US to aids research anyways so buy Elton John albums people. He is an entertainer who actually gives a damn.

EDIT: Here are the lyrics and name of the song I was talking about for Matthew.



American Triangle


Music by Elton John
Lyrics by Bernie Taupin
Available on the album Songs From The West Coast



Seen him playing in his backyard
Young boy just starting out
So much history in this landscape
So much confusion, so much doubt

Been there drinking on that front porch
Angry kids, mean and dumb
Looks like a painting, that blue skyline
God hates fags where we come from

'Western skies' don't make it right
'Home of the brave' don't make no sense
I've seen a scarecrow wrapped in wire
Left to die on a high ridge fence
It's a cold, cold wind
It's a cold, cold wind
It's a cold wind blowing, Wyoming

See two coyotes run down a deer
Hate what we don't understand
You pioneers give us your children
But it's your blood that stains their hands

Somewhere that road forks up ahead
To ignorance and innocence
Three lives drift on different winds
Two lives ruined, one life spent