*but, veracity thinks*

Tuskegee Experiment
Operation Northwoods

:hmm: hmmm.

Hmm, and how would the government benefit from the millions of dollars they shelled out for the disaster, plus all the aid provided & the lost revenue from the property taxes paid on houses now gone, and the income taxes from the people since relocated?
If the government desired the land for themselves, it would have been cheaper to buy it lot by lot, or fake a toxic spill to 'take' the contaminated land back.


Conspiricy theories invoke passion, but aren't thought out enough to be remotely plausible.

It doesn't matter how the government benefited! Don't you see!!! They just hate people and they don't care to what lengths they need to go in order to make people's lives miserable!!!!:rolleyes:

It's possible but unlikely. They already have the big brother infrastructure, and big brother budgets.

Blowin' up Levees
Can you give any type of reason why the govt would sabotage a levee?
Or are you referring to the fact that it should have been upgraded and was not?

Hmm, and how would the government benefit from the millions of dollars they shelled out for the disaster
Shelled out to whom? Oh. Well, yeah, maybe the people who got all those big reconstruction and other contracts might have benefited. :rolleyes: The government didn't, but certain people in government could have if they had some connection to those contractors. That's kind of the whole point. That's why we call it a conspiracy. The theory in question is that some people in government conspired with some people in industry to profit themselves at the expense of the taxpayers. I don't happen to believe in that theory myself, but to say that it's flat-out impossible because nobody benefits is patently false.
If the government desired the land for themselves, it would have been cheaper to buy it lot by lot, or fake a toxic spill to 'take' the contaminated land back.
Actually, since Kelo, all they have to do is declare it "blighted" - without a shred of evidence or even a firm definition of what that word means - and exercise eminent domain.

Shelled out to whom? Oh. Well, yeah, maybe the people who got all those big reconstruction and other contracts might have benefited. :rolleyes: The government didn't, but certain people in government could have if they had some connection to those contractors. That's kind of the whole point. That's why we call it a conspiracy. The theory in question is that some people in government conspired with some people in industry to profit themselves at the expense of the taxpayers. I don't happen to believe in that theory myself, but to say that it's flat-out impossible because nobody benefits is patently false.

Actually, since Kelo, all they have to do is declare it "blighted" - without a shred of evidence or even a firm definition of what that word means - and exercise eminent domain.

Pardon my ignorance, I didn't realize that FEMA is financed by private monies.
Either that or all the stories about the millions of dollars paid out for aid must just be made up.

OK number 1-the government is not a person-anyone in an official postition is going to be approached by lobbbyists and contractors etc ie people looking to make money-
2-whether the govenrment stands to benefit is of little concern to most of our politicians-they loudly complain that people iin the private sector with commensurate responsibility make a lot more money. And they're correct.
so 3 Our corrupt form of government depends on special interests to subsidize our officials' salaries=every time they vote themselves a raise the media squalls the public cries...
So my friend is at least right in that there is a potential for abuse...

Can you give any type of reason why the govt would sabotage a levee?
Or are you referring to the fact that it should have been upgraded and was not?

Sure I can give you a reason. It's the same reason why the Operations Northwood project got approved all the way up to the level that it did. It's the same reason why the Tuskeege Experiment was implemented. It's called having a hidden agenda. An ulterior motive.

The Tuskogee experiment was used to provide medical research. I would imagine Operations Northwood was to have control of Cuba, and get rid of Castro.

What would the context of blowing up levees in New Orleans? The government doesn't run clandestine operations simply to do something undercover. Where's the reasoning behind an attack on Americans?

The Tuskogee experiment was used to provide medical research. I would imagine Operations Northwood was to have control of Cuba, and get rid of Castro.

What would the context of blowing up levees in New Orleans? The government doesn't run clandestine operations simply to do something undercover. Where's the reasoning behind an attack on Americans?

I can tell you that I don't know. The primary point of this post is to show that yes, the US gov't has done (and has made plans to do) treacherous things to its fellow citizens. Deliberately.

The contractors make money,guys, on all these rebuilding projects-everyone in debates has me on ignore...

The contractors make money,guys, on all these rebuilding projects-everyone in debates has me on ignore...

I would respond, but I have you on ignore ;)

I can tell you that I don't know. The primary point of this post is to show that yes, the US gov't has done (and has made plans to do) treacherous things to its fellow citizens. Deliberately.

If you can't even paint a picture of why it was done, how do expect anyone to consider your theory?

The contractors make money,guys, on all these rebuilding projects-everyone in debates has me on ignore...

Maybe look into contractors being guilty of sabotage, instead of the government.
How does the government make any money getting the place rebuilt? It's already lost billions of dollars, how much will be made from taxing the wages of rebuilders? Enough to cover what they have spent & enough to make it worthwhile?
I don't think so.

Maybe look into contractors being guilty of sabotage, instead of the government.
How does the government make any money getting the place rebuilt? It's already lost billions of dollars, how much will be made from taxing the wages of rebuilders? Enough to cover what they have spent & enough to make it worthwhile?
I don't think so.


It's government officials who sign the contracts though-not the govenrment per se.

And since I'm on Java's ignore I can tell you he's got a bigtime crush on Anne Coulter...

But how much money does the government make from the contracts? You have to provide deatils of your theory for it to be plausable. Otherwise your just another nut in the snack mix.

But how much money does the government make from the contracts? You have to provide deatils of your theory for it to be plausable. Otherwise your just another nut in the snack mix.

I'm another nut-still kickbacks are a well known problem...

I'm another nut-still kickbacks are a well known problem...

It would have to be a few billion doallars in kickbacks...

It would have to be a few billion doallars in kickbacks...

Why? Maybe you're not getting this-the govenrment doesnt get the money; the contractor gives the money to the corrupt politician under the table in return for signing the contracts..

Somebody put peanut butter on my chocolate.

I deserve reparations.

Why? Maybe you're not getting this-the govenrment doesnt get the money; the contractor gives the money to the corrupt politician under the table in return for signing the contracts..
So the politician blew up the levees? And planned it in haste, just when the hurricane hit, after finding out exactly where it would hit (because the storm could have changed direction anytime) risking the lives of his loved ones & all of his possessions?
And he had people willing to risk their lives, out blowing up levees in a hurricane?

If a politician did all that, he deserves any money he gets, that's for sure.

:lol: I'm just arguing one principle-you quit picking on the Champ!:mad:

1. The government will sometimes do things that harm its own citizens. The government is made up of people. Some people are sociopaths who see others as pawns for their personal use.
2. The Katrina disaster is not an example of this. The levees were not blown up. They failed because they were not not strong or high enough.
3. There is corruption in the recovery process.
4. Bacon is good.

It's always amusing to read how people think the Gov blew up levee's to flood the poor blacks, yet, they some how also blew up a levee in Lakeshore, a very upperclass white area.

hmmm.......

That's how they make it look legitimate.:D

4. Bacon is good.

second.


And I guess I agree with everything else hadit said too...

4. Bacon is good.

Oops, you misspelled it.

You mean, bacon is God. :)

I thought it was misspelled, too...

Bacon is food...

:lol: I'm just arguing one principle-you quit picking on the Champ!:mad:

:D I agree.

Anyone heard of the Manhattan Project?

If you can't even paint a picture of why it was done, how do expect anyone to consider your theory?

Theory relative to what?

It's government officials who sign the contracts though-not the govenrment per se.

And since I'm on Java's ignore I can tell you he's got a bigtime crush on Anne Coulter...Yes, thats the best way to let the enemy win is put them on ignore. But I like having my enemies in the front. So, I put my enemies on my favorites, that way, the studying to the fall begins.

I also have it recorded, that The Democrats had the chance to rebuild the Levees, but decided to build the Superdome instead.

*but, veracity thinks*

Tuskegee Experiment
Operation Northwoods

:hmm: hmmm.

Okay. So what were they trying to accomplish with the levees and the WTC's?

What was the goal?

Of course the US government hasn't always acted in the best interest of the people, but I still think that even with those two horrid examples they thought they were acting in the best interest of the people.

Our corrupt form of government

You have any suggestions for a better form? And one that is working in practice right now?

I can tell you that I don't know. The primary point of this post is to show that yes, the US gov't has done (and has made plans to do) treacherous things to its fellow citizens. Deliberately.

Yes. But for a reason. No matter how deluded or wicked the reason there was a reason.

It's always amusing to read how people think the Gov blew up levee's to flood the poor blacks, yet, they some how also blew up a levee in Lakeshore, a very upperclass white area.

hmmm.......

Yeah, and they made sure that that Hurricane hit the entire Gulf Coast affecting many others who just don't happen to be poor and black.

The Hurricane affected an area larger than the entirety of the country of England.



Also, conspiracy theorists never explore beyond the end of their noses...but...

How did the "government" get into the WTC and plant the bombs?

Every demolition expert in the world says that this would take quite a bit of time.

Anyone heard of the Manhattan Project?

The Manhattan Project saved American lives.

I guess your other weak examples were running thin?

Also you ever know someone who has had cancer? Did they have radiation therapy? And live?

You know that radiation therapy is an outgrowth of other nuclear ideas...right?

You have any suggestions for a better form? And one that is working in practice right now?

I don't think the dear Lord intended for any political system to work-man is imperfect and imperfectible except by the grace of God..
I appreciate many of the things this country has brought the world-
to say that corruption isnt part of the package would be dishonest..

Yes, thats the best way to let the enemy win is put them on ignore. But I like having my enemies in the front. So, I put my enemies on my favorites, that way, the studying to the fall begins.

Javaman and I disagree on a few things but we're hardly enemies...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

How is Operation Northwoods a detriment to the American people?

What American people were harmed in the way that you would include it with Tuskegee?

I mean are you just throwing two things out and your real point is Tuskegee and you just saw Spike Lee's latest tripe and he brings it up again?

If you are trying to tie two things together that affected/impacted Americans why not CoIntellPro?

Or the fact that the US military has tested soldiers without them knowing exactly what they are getting into?

And, I guess your point is that it is the Federal government, but what about pharmacologic experiments on inmates in Philly?

I don't think the dear Lord intended for any political system to work-man is imperfect and imperfectible except by the grace of God..
I appreciate many of the things this country has brought the world-
to say that corruption isnt part of the package would be dishonest..


Ahhh, but you said "our" when you made the statement. so....

Ahhh, but you said "our" when you made the statement. so....

Fair objection,really-I singled this one out.And I did it knowing how many here are idealistic enough to believe it's worth it to try to put a plan together without all the "messy agendae" etc...
This country is very wealthy and wealth attracts unscrupulous people...but there is a corruption at the heart of a system where the leaders HAVE to resort to kowtowing to special interests to meet their work expenses...

Just because unscrupulous people found a way to benefit from the incident, doesn't mean they caused it.

I also have it recorded, that The Democrats had the chance to rebuild the Levees, but decided to build the Superdome instead.
The Dems rebuilt the superdome huh?
Actually it was a combo of insurance and FEMA...
And FEMA is (or was at the time) run by Republican appointed Mike Brown...
Since it is a big draw, makes a lot of money (including money for the state) as well as being a morale boost to the people (having their teams there to support), not to mention the fact that it was used by the state as an evacuation center...
It don't think there is anything wrong with it being rebuilt so quickly.

The left dems, at least on this site, should encourage Hezbollah to rebuild NO.

The Dems rebuilt the superdome huh?
Actually it was a combo of insurance and FEMA...
And FEMA is (or was at the time) run by Republican appointed Mike Brown...
Since it is a big draw, makes a lot of money (including money for the state) as well as being a morale boost to the people (having their teams there to support), not to mention the fact that it was used by the state as an evacuation center...
It don't think there is anything wrong with it being rebuilt so quickly.read it again. built, not rebuilt. iow, when they should have brought the levees up to acceptable strength, they built a sports stadium, not ever thinking about the repurcussions of weak levees...

Yes. But for a reason. No matter how deluded or wicked the reason there was a reason.

You ain't sayin' much....but the obvious.

read it again. built, not rebuilt. iow, when they should have brought the levees up to acceptable strength, they built a sports stadium, not ever thinking about the repurcussions of weak levees...

I did. You're right.
But since the construction of the superdome was finished August 11, 1971...
I don't believe the superdome's building process has interfered with the strengthening of the levees for the last 30 years...

You have to be dumb as s*** to think the american government would harm their own people, they still have the whole world to distroy.