Ok, abortion's not my thang, and talking about religion/god is a lost cause to start with, but I've recently been thinking about fate vs things happening randomly. I'm curious what you people think about it.

With some things in my life I'd like to believe it was fate, but at the same time I can't help thinking 'if our lives are predestined, then why try?', so that's a bit of a paradox right there.

What are your thoughts on this?

Well, I'm unsure, like you. I've been having some rough times lately, just got my license suspended (and stupidly choose to drive still) and wonder if its a tribute to the times I'm having. I drive the same way I did with my 1986 Caprice, I've had the Mustang for 4 years, about as long as I had the other one. Differences? The Mustang is a V6, the Caprice is a V8. The Caprice got no tickets, the Mustang got 6. I've spent over $1500 in fines and court fees on this stinkin car. Plus, add to it the huge debt I have totalled up from all my other expenses, and wifey's not helpin out much either, as she always wants something...

Long story short, I was destined to be those crazy homeless people who can tell you about the innerworkings of the earth's core and the electromagnetic layers when you're walking to your job, as you drop a nickel in my cup, and wonder if I'm crazy and enjoy eating sock stew.

You know, I've often contemplated that. I HATE the idea of fate/predestination. But in the same regard, it si a VERY scary feeling when you analyze how some things have come about.

Like if you look at all the things that needed to happen in order for you to get a certain job, or meet a certain person, it is quite scary to think that all of it is 'random' events that are pieced togehter.

But in the same regard, why should we do anything if things are fated to happen?

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Manu Narayan

As tam and I have discussed before, I am a believer in fate.. What you choose to make of your fate is the question. I do believe that it is meant for me to meet certain people and have them in my life. I take everything that happens and say "What difference or purpose has this made in my life". What is the point? Well, we have to live for fate to find us. I am sure there will be contradicting opinions on this matter, but this is my take on things.

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AIM Messenger: priccystanger

MSN : hcrotwell@hotmail.com

I'm definitely not fatalistic. A fatalistic person, IMO, resigns himself or herself to whatever happens. I don't think that's a great way to go through life. It’s a mentality that can limit the scope of what you do. It can also turn into a real negative because you can use it as a cop-out. Where do initiative, drive, perseverance, and hope come from then? If everything is pre-determined by fate, why do we have terms to define these abstract notions? And what about accidents? Aren’t they the result of poor decisions and/or choices?

In short, I believe in free will. You have the ability to make choices in your life – at many levels.

I look at life in the sense that I do believe that we are here for a reason. I do believe that life is meant to be a learning experience, and that part of us does transcend death. On the other hand, I also feel that we do have alot of leeway in our lives to make decisions.

A good analogy would be like a pilot with a flight plan. We come here with the idea of accomplishing certain things. However, there really is little from stopping us from doing other things along the way, or even really deviating from the plan altogether.

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Artist formerly known as Reindeer

i dont know if any of you have read 'One' by Richard Bach, but he's more or less describing parallel dimensions in his book. Every time you make a choice, reality splits up and there's 2 or more directions its heading in. You're on the 'road' you chose, and other you's are on the others. Now, take millions of people and all their decisions, every minute of the day.

Believing in this makes it very hard to also believe in fate, because how could anyone draw up a map of all possibile realities and then predetermine everything?

I'm all up for the parallel dimensions though... it also makes 'aliens' a lot more real and possible, but that's an entirely different discussion..... (I saw this on Discovery Channel)... its quite interesting

eanax- that reminds me of a business term called "Locus of Control"... basically the same principals.

Tam- that also reminds me of a movie with Gwennith(?) Paltrow called Sliding Doors. The movie starts as one dimensional, then something happens, and there were two ways that she could have gone. From there, the rest of the movie is spent switching back from a small snippet of decision 1 and decision 2... I'm not a big fan of hers, but I'd say that's one of the best movies I've seen in a while, one of the ones that really make you think about life in general.

The more I get to thinking of this topic, the more I question what I do believe. Lately, I have been questioning the way I live my life in general and what my beliefs are. I know that I think everyone was put on this earth for a purpose, and that purpose was destined long before we ever knew. Yes, everyday we make decisions that changes our life in general. So, therefore this leads me back to square one..this is something I am afraid I will keep changing my mind about.



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AIM Messenger: priccystanger

MSN : hcrotwell@hotmail.com

slayr420:

I'm familiar with Locus of Control. It's adapted from the whole idea of free will, which is a few centuries old. Many philosophical arguments have taken place over it, but it's a philosophy that works for me. It makes sense.

Ok, perhaps off topic, I believe though that everyone you meet is for a reason..and that I feel the need to get everything out of this person and see how they are significant to my life, and why were they (destined) to meet me. Anyone else think this way?

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AIM Messenger: priccystanger

MSN : hcrotwell@hotmail.com

i deffinately think certain people are in my pressence for a reason but so many people go in and out of my life that every single person cant be for a significant reason.

Originally posted by Princess:
Ok, perhaps off topic, I believe though that everyone you meet is for a reason..and that I feel the need to get everything out of this person and see how they are significant to my life, and why were they (destined) to meet me. Anyone else think this way?

Every single person? I mean, I meet prolly 5-10 new people a week either on campus or at work or while with friends. I don't think that they mean anything significant. I almost think the opposite. People I just 'meet' hold very little importance to me in the grand scheme of things. Repeated meetings, strange coincidences, then I may end up becoming intrigued...but not just meeting someone.



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Manu Narayan

I don't believe in fate, but I do believe in karma to some extent; what goes around comes around, you reap what you sow, that sort of thing.

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-Curt

"There ought to be limits to Freedom."

http://home.earthlink.net/~fiveofanatic/exmo.jpg

Kinda on the vein of what Tam said... I believe in "random" hapinstance... what I believe is that everyone effects reality... one way or another... and the choices we make mold the future... is it random? Not really... I mean not to much is really random save "acts of god". Disease is communicated, wars are started... blah blah blah... so when I meet someone its because I was late for work 3 weeks ago... didnt do laundry that night, did laundry the next night instead of watching a movie, caught the movie that weekend, and ran into them on the way out of the movie, that I would never have even gone to see if I hadn't gotten to work late.

Now it may seem like all these incredible things fell into place to make it happen. But if it didnt your life would have gone a completly different direction, and you would have been somewhere else... there are billions of other ways your life could have turned out had you made other choices in your life. Its not exactly fate, nor is it really random...

Its just life

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"Who wants some? Huh? Who wants a little?"
-TOAO Ash

I have been giving a hard time on this lately, and being questioned alot. I see your point guys, But I have to say that I truly believe that somethings are put into my path for a reason. I am not saying EVERYTHING..put the things that occur that changes your life. Fate brings you so far, you make the rest. I don't think it is by chance that I meet the love of my life. Fate will bring him to me, how I choose to pursue it, is my decision.

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"The grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, something to love, and something to hope for"
-Joseph Addison

There's a book by Robert Heinlein (yes, I know, one of my favorite authors is an ultra-conservative, so what?) called "Time Enough For Love" in which the main character goes back in time. According to Heinlein, even if we could travel through time and meet ourselves and whatnot, it really doesn't matter because, since I don't remember meeting myself when I was eight, it means that I CHOSE not to interfere with the course of events. This is my view when it comes to fate. Even if we can see what happens in the future, it doesn't matter because everything leading up to it is based on free-will choices. Make sense?

-Patrick

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"The difference between an individual terrorist and a government in some cases may be simply that the former has a bomb but doesn't have an air force."
-William Blum

Originally posted by PatTheAnarChrist:
There's a book by Robert Heinlein (yes, I know, one of my favorite authors is an ultra-conservative, so what?) called "Time Enough For Love" in which the main character goes back in time. According to Heinlein, even if we could travel through time and meet ourselves and whatnot, it really doesn't matter because, since I don't remember meeting myself when I was eight, it means that I CHOSE not to interfere with the course of events. This is my view when it comes to fate. Even if we can see what happens in the future, it doesn't matter because everything leading up to it is based on free-will choices. Make sense?

-Patrick




Yeah I was a big fan of that explanation until I came up with the following while talking to Nate one night... this is a little conveluted so hang with it...

basically instead of going back in time in our dimension, you go back in time to another dimension, and the changes you affect hit their, and when you returned in time you would return to the new time in that dimension, in which you actually did tell yourself of the future, but wouldnt have any recollection of doing so since your memory was from a different dimension...

weird I know


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"Who wants some? Huh? Who wants a little?"
-TOAO Ash

Was I drunk when we came up with that?

Seriously, if alternate dimensions exist, then to me, the whole issue of fate disappears almost completely. However if there are not different dimensions, then I still do not really believe in fate (or practical time travel for that matter, at least right now)

Nate

no it was at QED... well it wasnt really all us coming up with that... you mentioned the infinite number of dimensions blah blah blah it was a while ago and now I have a headache


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"Who wants some? Huh? Who wants a little?"
-TOAO Ash