I received this in an email so no link, although there's probably one out there somewhere.

(Bill & Hillary - Grit your teeth before you read this)


Bill Clinton registers for the draft on September 08, 1964,
accepting all contractual conditions of registering for the
draft. Selective Service Number is 3 26 46 228.

Bill Clinton classified 2-S on November 17, 1964.

Bill Clinton reclassified 1-A on March 20, 1968.

Bill Clinton ordered to report for induction on July 28, 1969.

Bill Clinton refuses to report and is not inducted into the
military.

Bill Clinton reclassified 1-D after enlisting in the United
States Army Reserves on August 07, 1969, under authority of
Col. E. Holmes.
Clinton signs enlistment papers and takes oath of enlistment.
Bill Clinton fails to report to his duty station at the
University of Arkansas ROTC, September 1969.

Bill Clinton reclassified 1-A on October 30, 1969, as
enlistment with Army Reserves is revoked by Colonel E. Holmes
and Clinton now AWOL and subject to arrest under Public Law
90-40 (2)(a) registrant who has failed to report...remain
liable for induction.

Bill Clinton's birth date lottery number is 311, drawn December
1, 1969, but anyone who has already been ordered to report for
induction is INELIGIBLE!

Bill Clinton runs for Congress (1974), while a fugitive from
justice under Public Law 90-40.

Bill Clinton runs for Arkansas Attorney General (1976), while a
fugitive from justice. Bill Clinton receives pardon on January
21, 1977, from Carter.

Bill Clinton FIRST PARDONED FEDERAL FELON ever to serve as
President of the United States. All these facts come from
Freedom of Information requests, public laws, and various books
that have been published, and have not been refuted by Clinton.

After the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, President Clinton
promised that those responsible would be hunted down and
punished.

After the 1995 bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed five U.S.
military personnel, Clinton promised that those responsible
would be hunted down and punished.

After the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia, which
killed 19 and injured 200 U.S. military personnel, Clinton
promised that those responsible would be hunted down and
punished. After the 1998 bombing of U.S. embassies in Africa,
which killed 224 and injured 5,000, Clinton promised that those
responsible would be hunted down and punished.

After the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole, which killed 17 and
injured 39 U.S. sailors, Clinton promised that those
responsible would be hunted down and punished.

Maybe if Clinton had kept those promises, an estimated 3,000
people in New York and Washington, DC. who are now dead would
be alive today.

INTERESTING QUESTION: This question was raised on a Philly
radio call-in show. Without casting stones, it is a legitimate
question:
There are two men, both extremely wealthy. One develops
relatively cheap software and gives billions of dollars to
charity.
The other sponsors terrorism.
That being the case, why was it that the Clinton Administration
spent more money chasing down Bill Gates over the eight years
in office, than Osama bin Laden?

THINK ABOUT IT! It is a strange turn of events. Hillary gets
$8 Million for her forthcoming memoir. Bill gets about $12
Million for his memoir yet to be written. This from two people
who spent 8 years being unable to recall anything about past
events while under oath.

Sincerely, Cdr. Hamilton McWhorter USN (ret)

Did Carter really pardon Clinton in 1977?

Here's the very first place you should have looked (http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/politics/clintondraft.asp).
That Bill Clinton went to great lengths to avoid the Vietnam-era draft, that he used political connections to obtain special favors, and that he made promises and commitments which he later failed to honor, are all beyond dispute. However, the timeline quoted above jumps the tracks when it labels Clinton a "felon," because none of his actions, no matter how unethical or morally reprehensible, were illegal. When Clinton agreed in July of 1969 to enter the advanced ROTC program at the University of Arkansas, his draft board rescinded his induction notice and reclassified him with a reservist's deferment. That he later changed his mind in October 1969 and opted to forego the ROTC program and be reclassified 1-A did not constitute a "failure to report" or make him "AWOL," because he was not due to begin ROTC training until the summer of 1970, and he had the ROTC director's permission to return to England in the meanwhile. At the time of his 1-A re-classification in October 1969 the previous induction notice was no longer in effect, and he was not subsequently re-drafted.
Therefore he was not legally considered a draft dodger, and Carter's blanket pardon in 1977 (http://ourgeorgiahistory.com/chronpop/222) did not apply to him. Do at least a moment's worth of research yourself next time.

Did anyone ever pardon Shrub?

I think it was just chain mail. Still interesting though. Are you a big Clinton fan or something?

BTW - Thanks for jumpin'.

Did anyone ever pardon Shrub?

Didn't need to.

Are you a big Clinton fan or something?

Is the sky blue? Is water wet? All yankees, leftists, queers, draft dodgers, immigrants, commies, and platypusses are Clinton fans silly.

Did anyone ever pardon Shrub?

For which of his many crimes and misdemeanors do you think he should be pardoned.:D

Being AWOL... :D

Is the sky blue? Is water wet? All yankees, leftists, queers, draft dodgers, immigrants, commies, and platypusses are Clinton fans silly.Canadians and the french should be on that list too.

Are you a big Clinton fan or something?



Clinton was far,far from perfect.........but compaired to Bush he's a genius,statesman and a sanit.

I repeat,he's that only compaired to Bush,but I'd take the peace and robust economy of Clinton to what we have with the current president any damn day.

Never thought much of him myself. I don't think the economy can really be attributed to any president and if by peace you mean ignoring problems, then I guess your right.

Is the sky blue? Is water wet? All yankees, leftists, queers, draft dodgers, immigrants, commies, and platypusses are Clinton fans silly.

Leftists aren't Clinton fans, dummie.

That Bill Clinton went to great lengths to avoid the Vietnam-era draft, that he used political connections to obtain special favors, and that he made promises and commitments which he later failed to honor, are all beyond dispute. However, the timeline quoted above jumps the tracks when it labels Clinton a "felon," because none of his actions, no matter how unethical or morally reprehensible, were illegal.

Another bogus chain e-mail bites the dust

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/politics/clintondraft.asp

"Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished."

Osama still hasn't been caught. :confused:

Being AWOL... :D

He wasn't..... :D

He wasn't..... :D

Oh, so you know where he was in May of 1972? :D

Oh, so you know where he was in May of 1972? :D

He wasn't AWOL or he would have been charged. So I don't have to know where he was.

Sounds like Clinton and GWB have similar backgrounds. Lots of Americans avoided going to Vietnam for obvious reasons.

Sounds like Clinton and GWB have similar backgrounds. Lots of Americans avoided going to Vietnam for obvious reasons.
But Clinton wasn't a hypocrite,the chickenhawks like Bush,Cheney, etc. are hypocrites and phonies.

But Clinton wasn't a hypocrite,the chickenhawks like Bush,Cheney, etc. are hypocrites and phonies.

Hmmmm. Bush served in the National Guard and flew very dangerous jet fighters. He could have been called up at any time. In contrast, Clinton did everything possible, sneaky, and underhanded to avoid any kind of service at all. That hardly makes Bush a hypocrite.

Hmmmm. Bush served in the National Guard and flew very dangerous jet fighters. He could have been called up at any time.


The odds of that happening were slim and nopne and naybody who has integiry will admit that.



In contrast, Clinton did everything possible, sneaky, and underhanded to avoid any kind of service at all. That hardly makes Bush a hypocrite.
I don't buy that.:nonono:

But let's give you that for the sake of argument,you still have chickenhawks like Cheney,Pat Buchanan,George Will,Newt Gingrich,Rush Limbaugh,Dan Qayle [for starters].

But,hey,it doesn't matter,to modern-day conservatives their fellow conservatives can break any law or commit any unethical actions and it's ok as long as they are conservatives .:mad:

The odds of that happening were slim and nopne and naybody who has integiry will admit that.


You will also admit that Bush placed himself into a situation where he could have been called up and was trained to fly highly dangerous jets, whereas Clinton put himself as far as possible from any chance of seeing combat, and the most danger he put himself into was getting clobbered by the remote possibility of a patriotic American happening on his demonstrations in England.


I don't buy that.:nonono:

But let's give you that for the sake of argument,you still have chickenhawks like Cheney,Pat Buchanan,George Will,Newt Gingrich,Rush Limbaugh,Dan Qayle [for starters].

But,hey,it doesn't matter,to modern-day conservatives their fellow conservatives can break any law or commit any unethical actions and it's ok as long as they are conservatives .:mad:

If you really want to go down that road, then Hillary Clinton, Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi et al need to shut up because they have no authority to condemn the war, since they all avoided combat.

Bottom line: Bush was in the ANG was was AWOL for a significant period of time. Even to this day his whereabouts and activities during that time are not clear to anyone, except possibly himself. He even lost his flight priviledges as a result of a missed medical...

AWOL is AWOL.

Bottom line: Bush was in the ANG was was AWOL for a significant period of time. Even to this day his whereabouts and activities during that time are not clear to anyone, except possibly himself. He even lost his flight priviledges as a result of a missed medical...

AWOL is AWOL.

Where are the charges? If you're AWOL, there's a record that you're AWOL. Where are the charges?

Where are the charges? If you're AWOL, there's a record that you're AWOL. Where are the charges?

Hmm.... Where's Bush's classified file? Hmm...Oh, thats right, he never had one. And lets see... He was absent from base for an extended period of time, and no one knows where he was... Hmmm.... Probably... Wait.... Umm..... Ummm........ Wow. Take a swing if you like. Only one answer makes any sense.

Hmm.... Where's Bush's classified file? Hmm...Oh, thats right, he never had one. And lets see... He was absent from base for an extended period of time, and no one knows where he was... Hmmm.... Probably... Wait.... Umm..... Ummm........ Wow. Take a swing if you like. Only one answer makes any sense.

No charges? Didn't think so.

You will also admit that Bush placed himself into a situation where he could have been called up and was trained to fly highly dangerous jets, whereas Clinton put himself as far as possible from any chance of seeing combat, and the most danger he put himself into was getting clobbered by the remote possibility of a patriotic American happening on his demonstrations in England.

In January of 1968, Bush sent enquiries to the National Guard. It seems Bush had had an epiphany: he wante to be a pilot, just like his dad. Well, not exactly like Pappy, who was shot down flying a fighter in World War II. Yes, Lil' Bush wanted to fly fighter jets, but not in dicey combat situations. That, naturally, would defeat the entire purpose of joining the Guard.

In 1989, Bush explained the coarse calculus behind his decision to a reporter from the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal, "I'm saying to myself, 'What do I want to do?' I think, I don't want to be an infantry guy as a pilot in Vietnam. What I do decide to want to do [sic] is learn to fly."

At the time Bush applied to the National Guard, there were 100,000 other young men in line before him, stalled on a crowded waiting list hoping their number would be called before they were sucked up by the draft and dropped onto the killing fields of the Mekong Delta. In Texas alone, there were 500 applicants frantically vying for only four open slots for fighter pilot-training in the Air National Guard.

At first blush, Bush didn't seem to have much of a shot at landing one of those choice positions. First, he flunked his medical test. Then he flunked his dental exam. And finally, as Ian Williams reveals in Deserter, his merciless indictment of Bush's disappearing act in the National Guard, he scores a rock-bottom 25 percent on his pilot aptitude examination. That's one out of four correct answers, a ratio that is not even a credible mark in cluster-bombing class. To put this achievement in perspective, the average score of applicants taking the pilot aptitude test was 77 percent, a whopping fifty-two percentage points higher than the proud product of the Yale ancestral admissions program. More than 95 percent of the testers scored higher than Bush, the Ivy Leaguer.

Aptitude for piloting a fighter jet notwithstanding, on May 27, 1968, just nervy twelve days before the expiration of his student deferment, Bush the Younger was accepted into the Texas Air National Guard. On his application form under the heading "Background Qualifications," Bush declares in a refreshing spurt of honesty "None."

Today the pipsqueak commander-in-chief has exploited the Guard and Army Reserve as a form of covert conscription to beef up troop numbers in Iraq and Afghanistan. But in those days National Guard squadrons were generally not being sent off to the frontlines in Vietnam. But just to be sure, Bush checked the box on his enlistment form saying he was unwilling to do time overseas. That box was a comfy failsafe that is no longer available to young people seduced into signing up as weekend warriors in Bush's National Guard.

What the commanders of the Guard may not have known at the time was that in Bush's mind it was either the Guard or Canada. In 1994, the gunshy Bush, who tortured animals as teen-ager, fessed up to the Houston Chronicle that being sent to Vietnam was simply not an option for him: "I was not prepared to shoot my eardrum out with a shotgun in order to get a deferment. Nor was I willing to go to Canada. So I choose to better myself by learning how to fly airplanesI don't want to play like I was somebody out there marching when I wasn't. It was either Canada or the service. Somebody said the Guard was looking for pilots. All I know is, there weren't that many people trying to be pilots."

As we now know, there were more than 500 people looking to be pilots in Texas alone, nearly all of them more qualified for the slots than Bush.

....

In September Bush completed his tour of duty at PULL, applied to grad school, and despite being AWOL from the National Guard from May of 1972 through October of 1973, is granted an honorable discharge.

That fall Bush evacuated to Cambridge, making a soft landing at Harvard Business School, another reliable safehouse for the brattish scions of the ruling class. Fellow students at Harvard remember Bush prancing into lecture halls wearing his uniform. Even then, he had a taste for military cross-dressing, though no one in the Massachusetts National Guard ever recalls the tyro-in-a-jumpsuit showing up for duty at the base--although he did drop by once to have his choppers cleaned gratis by the Guard's dentist.

Whenever Bush plays dress-up, as he does at nearly every photo-op on a military site from the USS Lincoln to torture seminar rooms at Ft. Bragg, he comes off as the missing member of the Village People, which mayy explains his enduring appeal to the latent types manning the controls of the Christian right these days.

http://www.counterpunch.org/stclair08122004.html

No charges? Didn't think so.

I didnt ask about charges. Im asking where he was... Listen, this is a math problem.

No Classified Record + Missing for extended period of time with no explenation = ?

In January of 1968, Bush sent enquiries to the National Guard. It seems Bush had had an epiphany: he wante to be a pilot, just like his dad. Well, not exactly like Pappy, who was shot down flying a fighter in World War II. Yes, Lil' Bush wanted to fly fighter jets, but not in dicey combat situations. That, naturally, would defeat the entire purpose of joining the Guard.

In 1989, Bush explained the coarse calculus behind his decision to a reporter from the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal, "I'm saying to myself, 'What do I want to do?' I think, I don't want to be an infantry guy as a pilot in Vietnam. What I do decide to want to do [sic] is learn to fly."

At the time Bush applied to the National Guard, there were 100,000 other young men in line before him, stalled on a crowded waiting list hoping their number would be called before they were sucked up by the draft and dropped onto the killing fields of the Mekong Delta. In Texas alone, there were 500 applicants frantically vying for only four open slots for fighter pilot-training in the Air National Guard.

At first blush, Bush didn't seem to have much of a shot at landing one of those choice positions. First, he flunked his medical test. Then he flunked his dental exam. And finally, as Ian Williams reveals in Deserter, his merciless indictment of Bush's disappearing act in the National Guard, he scores a rock-bottom 25 percent on his pilot aptitude examination. That's one out of four correct answers, a ratio that is not even a credible mark in cluster-bombing class. To put this achievement in perspective, the average score of applicants taking the pilot aptitude test was 77 percent, a whopping fifty-two percentage points higher than the proud product of the Yale ancestral admissions program. More than 95 percent of the testers scored higher than Bush, the Ivy Leaguer.

Aptitude for piloting a fighter jet notwithstanding, on May 27, 1968, just nervy twelve days before the expiration of his student deferment, Bush the Younger was accepted into the Texas Air National Guard. On his application form under the heading "Background Qualifications," Bush declares in a refreshing spurt of honesty "None."

Today the pipsqueak commander-in-chief has exploited the Guard and Army Reserve as a form of covert conscription to beef up troop numbers in Iraq and Afghanistan. But in those days National Guard squadrons were generally not being sent off to the frontlines in Vietnam. But just to be sure, Bush checked the box on his enlistment form saying he was unwilling to do time overseas. That box was a comfy failsafe that is no longer available to young people seduced into signing up as weekend warriors in Bush's National Guard.

What the commanders of the Guard may not have known at the time was that in Bush's mind it was either the Guard or Canada. In 1994, the gunshy Bush, who tortured animals as teen-ager, fessed up to the Houston Chronicle that being sent to Vietnam was simply not an option for him: "I was not prepared to shoot my eardrum out with a shotgun in order to get a deferment. Nor was I willing to go to Canada. So I choose to better myself by learning how to fly airplanesI don't want to play like I was somebody out there marching when I wasn't. It was either Canada or the service. Somebody said the Guard was looking for pilots. All I know is, there weren't that many people trying to be pilots."

As we now know, there were more than 500 people looking to be pilots in Texas alone, nearly all of them more qualified for the slots than Bush.

....

In September Bush completed his tour of duty at PULL, applied to grad school, and despite being AWOL from the National Guard from May of 1972 through October of 1973, is granted an honorable discharge.

That fall Bush evacuated to Cambridge, making a soft landing at Harvard Business School, another reliable safehouse for the brattish scions of the ruling class. Fellow students at Harvard remember Bush prancing into lecture halls wearing his uniform. Even then, he had a taste for military cross-dressing, though no one in the Massachusetts National Guard ever recalls the tyro-in-a-jumpsuit showing up for duty at the base--although he did drop by once to have his choppers cleaned gratis by the Guard's dentist.

Whenever Bush plays dress-up, as he does at nearly every photo-op on a military site from the USS Lincoln to torture seminar rooms at Ft. Bragg, he comes off as the missing member of the Village People, which mayy explains his enduring appeal to the latent types manning the controls of the Christian right these days.

http://www.counterpunch.org/stclair08122004.html

Cute, but you didn't address Clinton's craven dodging. Bush still put himself in much greater danger than Clinton did.

No charges? Didn't think so.

So because the ANG didn't pursue charges against the son of a Congressman you conclude Bush never went absent without leave, despite the overwhelming evidence that he was not where he was supposed to be for an extended period of time, that other Guard officers have no recollection of him being in Alabama despite him working on a political campaign there, that there is no record of Bush receiving ANG pay during the latter part of 1972 etc? :eek7:

So because the ANG didn't pursue charges against the son of a Congressman you conclude Bush never went absent without leave, despite the overwhelming evidence that he was not where he was supposed to be for an extended period of time, that other Guard officers have no recollection of him being in Alabama despite him working on a political campaign there, that there is no record of Bush receiving ANG pay during the latter part of 1972 etc? :eek7:

Nothing's ever been proven, and the military hasn't even alleged that Bush was AWOL. What you have is conjecture and suspicion, combined with a predisposition to believe the worst of Bush.

Cute, but you didn't address Clinton's craven dodging. Bush still put himself in much greater danger than Clinton did.

Yes... B/C Its craven to not be so nationalistic that you'll give your life and kill others for an idea that you may not agree with. Christ. Unless you can find me multiple sources that Clinton backed US action in NAM, this argument of Clinton being a 'craven draft dodging coward' is ****ing pathetic.

Cute, but you didn't address Clinton's craven dodging. Bush still put himself in much greater danger than Clinton did.

Maybe you're mistaking me for a Clinton fan. I think Clinton was an anti-war type, but I haven't looked into it. Bush has never put himself in danger in his entire life and never will. He's a coddled preppie and a frat boy. Physical courage is not one of his genetic characteristics.

Nothing's ever been proven, and the military hasn't even alleged that Bush was AWOL. What you have is conjecture and suspicion, combined with a predisposition to believe the worst of Bush.

And you believe the best, despite the fact that his record makes NO Sense. You need to answer my question.

Nothing's ever been proven, and the military hasn't even alleged that Bush was AWOL. What you have is conjecture and suspicion, combined with a predisposition to believe the worst of Bush.

Bush's own military records, such as they are, support the contention he was AWOL. It's quite simple: The evidence is in and has yet to be refuted.

The fact that a son of priviledge, the son of a Congressman was not charged with being AWOL doesn't surprise me (does it surprise you? Really?) nor does it counter the evidence at hand.

Maybe you're mistaking me for a Clinton fan. I think Clinton was an anti-war type, but I haven't looked into it. Bush has never put himself in danger in his entire life and never will. He's a coddled preppie and a frat boy. Physical courage is not one of his genetic characteristics.

Do you have any idea how dangerous the jets are that he was trained to fly? You should look it up.

Yes... B/C Its craven to not be so nationalistic that you'll give your life and kill others for an idea that you may not agree with. Christ. Unless you can find me multiple sources that Clinton backed US action in NAM, this argument of Clinton being a 'craven draft dodging coward' is ****ing pathetic.

In comparing Bush's actions during Nam to Clinton's, the only conclusion you can arrive at is that Clinton did everything possible (including sneaky, underhanded tactics) to avoid combat at all costs. Bush avoided combat, but placed himself in a position where he was available should he be called up. If Clinton was such a principled anti-war activist, why didn't he stand up for what he believed in?

Bush's own military records, such as they are, support the contention he was AWOL. It's quite simple: The evidence is in and has yet to be refuted.

The fact that a son of priviledge, the son of a Congressman was not charged with being AWOL doesn't surprise me (does it surprise you? Really?) nor does it counter the evidence at hand.

The fact still remains that it is up to the accuser to make his case, not the defense to prove it wrong. You're making a big leap from a few missing records to accusing the sitting President of the US of a military crime. Note that I'm not accusing Clinton of any criminal activity. I don't like what he did, but absent greater authority making the case I won't go there.

Do you have any idea how dangerous the jets are that he was trained to fly? You should look it up.

I don't think you have any grasp of who and what George Bush is.

The fact still remains that it is up to the accuser to make his case, not the defense to prove it wrong.

And the case has been made. From officers who don't recall seeing him to missed medicals to pay records, there's sufficient evidence to say that Bush was absent from where he should have been during a portion of his ANG tenure without permission...in other words, AWOL.

Bush has not supplied anything to counter the evidence.

You're making a big leap from a few missing records to accusing the sitting President of the US of a military crime. Note that I'm not accusing Clinton of any criminal activity. I don't like what he did, but absent greater authority making the case I won't go there.

Clinton is/was as much a douchebag as his priviledged brethren like Cheney and Bush during that time.

Your "point" about Bush putting himself in harm's way while Clinton tiptoed through he tulips raises an important issue, of course: Kerry. During this time Kerry was piloting a swift boat getting shot at and killing commies. The usual suspects on the extreme right mince his service to his country and the danger he put himself in with such nonsense as Xmas in Cambodia and questioning the medals he earned. Surely if Bush's potential to be called to Vietnam service pushes him that far above Clinton then Kerry's actual service there puts him...where exactly with you guys?

Do you have any idea how dangerous the jets are that he was trained to fly? You should look it up.
Do you have any idea how dangerous it was to be a grunt on the ground in Viet Nam? You should look it up.

And the case has been made. From officers who don't recall seeing him to missed medicals to pay records, there's sufficient evidence to say that Bush was absent from where he should have been during a portion of his ANG tenure without permission...in other words, AWOL.

Bush has not supplied anything to counter the evidence.


If the records are missing, how is he supposed to do that?


Clinton is/was as much a douchebag as his priviledged brethren like Cheney and Bush during that time.

Your "point" about Bush putting himself in harm's way while Clinton tiptoed through he tulips raises an important issue, of course: Kerry. During this time Kerry was piloting a swift boat getting shot at and killing commies. The usual suspects on the extreme right mince his service to his country and the danger he put himself in with such nonsense as Xmas in Cambodia and questioning the medals he earned. Surely if Bush's potential to be called to Vietnam service pushes him that far above Clinton then Kerry's actual service there puts him...where exactly with you guys?

Kerry's actual service is a credit to him, and he deserves great respect for doing it. I've never denigrated that. What he doesn't deserve respect for is the way he treated his fellow servicemen after he came home.

Do you have any idea how dangerous it was to be a grunt on the ground in Viet Nam? You should look it up.

Clinton wasn't a grunt on the ground in Nam. Bush did train in and fly the jets.

Bush avoided combat, but placed himself in a position where he was available should he be called up.

You were correct before the "but"

With help, he got trained to fly f-102's which were being phased out and replaced by f-104's ... his training was worthless to the war effort

just getting into the guard required string pulling from big daddy and once he was certified to fly he did some more string pulling to get transferred to an inactive unit that did not even have planes nor did he bother to return for two years

I am always amazed by the lengths bushies will go to, to defend him

Clinton wasn't a grunt on the ground in Nam. Bush did train in and fly the jets.
...using friends' influence to jump the queue and avoid the greater danger that faced him as an alternative. How courageous.

You were correct before the "but"

With help, he got trained to fly f-102's which were being phased out and replaced by f-104's ... his training was worthless to the war effort

just getting into the guard required string pulling from big daddy and once he was certified to fly he did some more string pulling to get transferred to an inactive unit that did not even have planes nor did he bother to return for two years

I am always amazed by the lengths bushies will go to, to defend him

Are you seriously trying to make Bush's service during Viet Nam a condemnation on his presidency?

In comparing Bush's actions during Nam to Clinton's, the only conclusion you can arrive at is that Clinton did everything possible (including
sneaky, underhanded tactics) to avoid combat at all costs.

The main difference--Clinton attained this level by himself, where he could sneak and use underhanded tactics. Bush's father however simply got there for him, and saved his ass. Its been made clear that Bush was not only 99% likely AWOL, but the unit he served in was non-active, and the planes were being phased out. There was hardly a safer way for him to be active at the time.


Bush avoided combat, but placed himself in a position where he was available should he be called up.

Not really. Its known that the jets he flew were being phased out, therefor he had no chance of being called up.

If Clinton was such a principled anti-war activist, why didn't he stand up for what he believed in?

Couldnt tell ya. As I said--Iv never really heard his position on Nam.

Are you seriously trying to make Bush's service during Viet Nam a condemnation on his presidency?

You make it sound like Bush actually served in nam or something. 'Service during Viet Nam'. Come on.

BTW--THE OP was completly shut down by post 2. Why is this thread still going?

Are you seriously trying to make Bush's service during Viet Nam a condemnation on his presidency?

you are being deliberately obtuse ... and what exactly does "service DURING Viet Nam mean ??

Bush is a silver-spoon fed phony that used daddy to cut-in line in front of hundreds of more deserving men to get a safe and cushy stateside assignment which he walked away from when his beer and cocaine lifestyle became incompatible with newly instated drug screening for pilots.

Do you see something commendable there ?

You make it sound like Bush actually served in nam or something. 'Service during Viet Nam'. Come on.


I respect those who serve in the National Guard. They served during Viet Nam. Are you on record saying that you don't respect their service?


BTW--THE OP was completly shut down by post 2. Why is this thread still going?

It's still going because we're still posting to it. You don't have to continue.

In comparing Bush's actions during Nam to Clinton's, the only conclusion you can arrive at is that Clinton did everything possible (including sneaky, underhanded tactics) to avoid combat at all costs. Bush avoided combat, but placed himself in a position where he was available should he be called up. If Clinton was such a principled anti-war activist, why didn't he stand up for what he believed in?

Clinton wasn't a grunt on the ground in Nam. Bush did train in and fly the jets.
Clinton was opposed to the war so he wasn't a hypocrite or a phony ,Bush and the all other chickenhawks were for the war and could have volunterred to go but felt they were too good to go there and had poor people go in their place.

That makes them hypocrites,phonies and elitists.:mad:







I am always amazed by the lengths bushies will go to, to defend him


The Bush ass-kissers never fail to amaze me. :nonono:

Clinton was opposed to the war so he wasn't a hypocrite or a phony ,Bush and the all other chickenhawks were for the war and could have volunterred to go but felt they were too good to go there and had poor people go in their place.

That makes them hypocrites,phonies and elitists.:mad: TT, you just made Clinton out to be the biggest pussy ever. :eek3:

The Bush ass-kissers never fail to amaze me. :nonono:I've never even seen Bush's ass, but the whole world has seen Clintons. :p This is just too damn easy. TT, you've got to try harder.

TT, you just made Clinton out to be the biggest pussy ever. :eek3:


I think soemone who is in favor of the war but won't go is even bigger pussy.

LOL, So draft dodging is a less pussy move than actually serving.
You're quite the mastermind.

The Bush ass-kissers never fail to amaze me.

As time passes, supporting Bush -- meaning, making excuses for his various crimes, lies and failures -- more and more resembles a kind of mental illness as opposed to a political viewpoint. The best analogy is that of a chronic alcoholic or a drug addict.

Or a liberal.

LOL, So draft dodging is a less pussy move than actually serving.
You're quite the mastermind.
^ Spin,nothing else.:nonono:


As time passes, supporting Bush -- meaning, making excuses for his various crimes, lies and failures -- more and more resembles a kind of mental illness as opposed to a political viewpoint. The best analogy is that of a chronic alcoholic or a drug addict.

:nice:

As time passes, supporting Bush -- meaning, making excuses for his various crimes, lies and failures -- more and more resembles a kind of mental illness as opposed to a political viewpoint. The best analogy is that of a chronic alcoholic or a drug addict.

Michael Savage strikes again!

Clinton was far,far from perfect.........but compaired to Bush he's a genius,statesman and a sanit.



ROFL! The guy who let the terrorists walk all over us for YEARS?!? The guy practically invited them in on 9/11. The only man who had more to do with the 911 attacks than Osama was Billy Boy Clinton.

Look at all the liberals who voted for him and then attacked Bush's service record. Makes me want to puke. :P

^ another 100% fact-free micheal (savage) wiener inspired post

perhaps if the republican ideologues were not so hell-bent on dragging the country through trumped up impeachment hearings he might have been more effective. In spite of that, his administration was hamstrung by Neuts congress at every turn at anti terror efforts, including freezing assets of bin laden.

http://www.ict.org.il/documents/documentdet.cfm?docid=22

They watered down the anti-terror bill
http://www.cnn.com/US/9604/18/anti.terror.bill/index.html
and shot-down or watered down The Comprehensive Antiterrorism Act of 1995, The Counter Terrorism Technology Research Act of 1995, The Antiterrorism Amendments Act of 1995, The Effective Death Penalty and Antiterrorism Act of 1995

http://www.cnn.com/US/9607/30/clinton.terrorism/

when Al Qaeda was hijacking planes, the commander-in-chimp from read a children's book in a semi-catatonic state

then he squandered the countries valuable military and treasury assets on an ill-advised invasion of the wrong country over dubious, exaggerated and made-up threats.

Now Al Qaeda runs loose where they had no presence or authority what-so-ever 3 years ago, Americans cower down in the "green zone" and Bin Forgotten smokes his hooka with impunity knowing he is safely amongst allies in the pakistan frontier ... I suppose you consider that "progress"

THAT makes ME want to puke :P