Seems to be older stuff.....but 500 is more that can be explained away as discarded, overlooked, or lost.

Not on the wires yet, but it will be soon enough.

Ah....good old Fox News, first out of the gate.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html

The other news orgs will have info up shortly, just as soon as they figure out how to spin this as a negative for Bush. :nice:

Bush's "suprise visit" was to personally plant theese munitions, no doubt.... Iraq was a peacfull nation full of hippies and billy-goats until the US military showed up.

:bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl:

Bush's "suprise visit" was to personally plant theese munitions, no doubt.... Iraq was a peacfull nation full of hippies and billy-goats until the US military showed up.

Obviously! He had them in his carry-on bag, and since they did'nt look like nail-clippers on the x-ray, they passed him straight through.

I predict the minimization minions are in overdrive right now.

Is this evidence of a post 1991 wmd program ?

no

Santorum IS the weakest link

Goodbye !

Offering the official administration response to FOX News, a senior Defense Department official pointed out that the chemical weapons were not in useable conditions.

"This does not reflect a capacity that was built up after 1991," the official said, adding the munitions "are not the WMDs this country and the rest of the world believed Iraq had, and not the WMDs for which this country went to war."


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html

Yeah, Fox News is JUST LIKE the daily kos. Just a bunch of leftist lies!

Watch alan colmes, yes, Alan Colmes put the shizzle down on Rick sanitorium.

http://images1.americanprogress.org/il80web20037/ThinkProgress/2006/santorumdod.320.240.mov


Defense Department Disavows Santorum’s WMD Claims

Today, Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) and Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-MI) held a press conference and announced “we have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.” Santorum and Hoekstra are hyping a document that describes degraded, pre-1991 munitions that were already acknowledged by the White House’s Iraq Survey Group and dismissed.

Fox News’ Jim Angle contacted the Defense Department who quickly disavowed Santorum and Hoekstra’s claims. A Defense Department official told Angle flatly that the munitions hyped by Santorum and Hoekstra are “not the WMD’s for which this country went to war.”

The Bush administration commissioned the Iraq Survey Group to determine whether in fact any WMD existed in Iraq. After a year and half of meticulously combing through the country, here’s what the administration’s own inspectors reported:

While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible Indications that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter, a policy ISG attributes to Baghdad’s desire to see sanctions lifted, or rendered ineffectual, or its fear of force against it should WMD be discovered.

The White House should immediately announce whether it stands with Santorum or whether it stands behind the review conducted by Charles Duelfer and the Iraq Survey Group. Recall, in October 2004, Bush said of Duelfer’s analysis:

The chief weapons inspector, Charles Duelfer, has now issued a comprehensive report that confirms the earlier conclusion of David Kay that Iraq did not have the weapons that our intelligence believed were there.

Fox News isn’t waiting for an administration statement. Their right wing pundits are already peddling the story as truth. Host John Gibson: “Sen. Rick Santorum announcing a startling find … In fact, WMDs were found in Iraq.”

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/06/21/santorum-wmd/

John Gibson of FOX is their resident wackjob btw..

Ah....good old Fox News, first out of the gate.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html

The other news orgs will have info up shortly, just as soon as they figure out how to spin this as a negative for Bush. :nice:


Bush is already in the negative, but this is just another loss of credibility for Santorum.

And I don't know why any other news outlets would try to paint Bush in the negative, they all reported his WMD and Al-Qaeda lies before the war as if they were fact, never questioning anything that came out of the administration.

The other news orgs will have info up shortly, just as soon as they figure out how to spin this as a negative for Bush. :nice:

no need to ... Bush refutes this in his own words

Thursday, October 7, 2004; 2:02 PM

President Bush gives a statement to reporters on the findings issued yesterday by the Iraq Survey Group led by Charles A. Duelfer. Here is a transcript of Bush’s comments.

BUSH: The chief weapons inspector, Charles Duelfer, has now issued a comprehensive report that confirms the earlier conclusion of David Kay that Iraq did not have the weapons that our intelligence believed were there.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A14897-2004Oct7?language=printer

It is also worth noting that UNSCOM's (http://cns.miis.edu/research/iraq/ucreport/dis_chem.htm) report had accounted for all except 550 of the approx 200,000 "special munitions" ... that is .25% of the total ... this easily falls under "explained away as discarded, overlooked, or lost"

Santorum is a joke ... so is FOUXnews

that is .25% of the total ... this easily falls under "explained away as discarded, overlooked, or lost"

BS. 500 is not something you can write off with that. Five, yes, ten, sure. maybe even 50. But not 500.

oh dear here we go again....

More pre-Gulf War fossils. Glad these antiques were found but there's no meat on these bones.

Can we bury them in your backyard, K? Sarin is pretty nasty stuff and it stays nasty for many years, but I guess that's okay since they're old.

Can we bury them in your backyard, K? Sarin is pretty nasty stuff and it stays nasty for many years, but I guess that's okay since they're old.

"Sen Rick Santorum (R-Pa) and Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-MI) held a press conference yesterday to announce that weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq, only to have their claims flatly disavowed by the U.S. Department of Defense.

Santorum and Hoekstra were talking about the degraded and inoperable remnants of Saddam's pre-1991 chemical weapons program that are turning up at various sites around Iraq. Their allegations are based on the U.S. government's own Iraq Survey Group. The very same report convinced President Bush that Iraq did not have WMD.

The DOD flatly disavowed the Congressmen's WMD claims. ThinkProgress: "Fox News’ Jim Angle contacted the Defense Department who quickly disavowed Santorum and Hoekstra’s claims. A Defense Department official told Angle flatly that the munitions hyped by Santorum and Hoekstra are “not the WMD’s for which this country went to war.”"

Degraded and inoperable. Remnants. Pre-1991... Antique relics. Take this story:

"Homeowners have been finding military ordnance in their clamshell driveways in Delaware and Maryland for the last year.

So far, 318 pieces of ordnance have been recovered.

A clam dredging operation pulled them up about 20 miles off New Jersey. The clamshells were chopped up and widely distributed for cheap driveway fill throughout the Delmarva Peninsula.

One piece found in a driveway in the summer of 2004 was a 75 mm artillery shell from World War I, filled with mustard gas in solid form.

Three bomb disposal technicians from Dover Air Force Base dismantled the shell to see what was in it so investigators could better determine the hazards that all the discovered ordnance posed. The gas burned them. One was hospitalized with large pus-filled blisters on an arm and hand.

Newly released records reveal that the Army dumped at least 64 million pounds of chemical warfare agents in steel containers - as well as a minimum of 400,000 bombs and rockets and 500 tons of radioactive waste - off the country's shores in 26 ocean dump zones created from 1944 to 1970."

http://www.dailypress.com/news/local/dp-02762sy0oct30,0,4135462.story

Are these shells being found a sign that the US has an active chemical weapons program or are they simply relics from a bygone era?

Old news dating from an era when we know Saddam had chemical munitions. Nothing new here...move along...

What's the point guys? WMD or no WMD! We're there, and the only relevant issue is how Iraq is doing when we leave, and whether the American people care how they do period!

hazardous unexploded ordinance, mines, weapons stores etc are found by the thousands after the end of every war

Is someone trying to claim that some rusting 155mm shells were a threat to the US ?

Did Saddam try to reconstitute an intercontinental-ballistic-flying-carpet-program to fly these over the Atlantic ? :rolleyes:

You Busies are hilarious

Obviously! He had them in his carry-on bag, and since they did'nt look like nail-clippers on the x-ray, they passed him straight through.


He didn't need to use his carry-on. Air-Force One is well known as a smuggling of contraband vehicle.

The other news orgs will have info up shortly, just as soon as they figure out how to spin this as a negative for Bush. :nice:

I guess we can add "Department of Defense" to the list of news orgs out to get Bush...?

WMD's HAVE BEEN FOUND IN WASHINGTON DC !!! :eek:


MORE TO FOLLOW !!


military stockpiles of chemical weapons, which total more than 70,000 metric tons (http://www.thebulletin.org/article.php?art_ofn=so01tucker)

How many times have these guys fallen for it when some rightwingers say OMG WMDS FOUND and it turns out to be bunk? Will they ever learn?

< Lol. >

Notice how the extreme left's arguments always morph once their previous one has been proven to be false?

Do they really expect that nobody will notice?


The latest argument from the extreme left goes like this;

"Saddam had WMD, he used WMD, he had stockpiles of WMD in violation of his agreements when we invaded Iraq in 03, he intended on rebuilding new WMD (according to the Deulfer report), but wasn't making any at the exact moment we invaded Iraq so no threat existed."

:rofl:


As ususal, the question now remains, for those on the extreme who said "Bush Lied", are they going to admit they were wrong?

If the pattern is the same in other threads they will;
a) do no such thing
b) attempt to change the subject

We know who the liars are, it wasn't Bush, it was those who called Bush a liar.

Fighting strawmen again, I see. Well, if it makes you feel better about yourself, have a blast.

Fighting strawmen again, I see. Well, if it makes you feel better about yourself, have a blast.

Its always amusing to watch posters debate themselves :D

If anything, this lends credibility to the Department of Defense :nice:

They didn't have to admit that the munitions found were not the WMDs they were looking for. They could have spun the story, but instead they were honest about it.

I guess we can add "Department of Defense" to the list of news orgs out to get Bush...?

It IS interesting that the Bush administration didn't trumpet this.

I assume they have more information than does Santorium and Hoekstra.

Those firecrackers I bought 10 yrs ago are probably more potent than those antiques they found in Iraq.

What's the point guys? WMD or no WMD! We're there, and the only relevant issue is how Iraq is doing when we leave, and whether the American people care how they do period!

I agree. It's all rather a moot point, at this juncture.

But bringing it still does stir up the 'opposition', here on DA. :nice:

He didn't need to use his carry-on. Air-Force One is well known as a smuggling of contraband vehicle.

It's a little late to bring that up now! He already left the WWI submarine he was going to plant in Fallujah, buried in the rose garden. :mad:

Originally Posted by orangikan
What's the point guys? WMD or no WMD! We're there, and the only relevant issue is how Iraq is doing when we leave, and whether the American people care how they do period!

I agree. It's all rather a moot point, at this juncture.

But bringing it still does stir up the 'opposition', here on DA. :nice:

The point is that this happened 35 years ago in Vietnam. It's happening now. Will it happen in 2041 too? The US goes to war because the military industry and some fat old men in Washington want to? Thousands of men and women die? Literally thousands of tax dollars from each and every American are funneled to a questionable (at best) elective war? It isn't right, it isn't just, it isn't fair, and it shouldn't happen. Orangikan is correct that the main issue of focus should be ensuring the best-possible environment when the US leaves Iraq. But let's not do this again in 2041, eh, folks? That's why bringing up politicians' lies is always relevant.

Reading from a declassified portion of a report by the National Ground Intelligence Center, a Defense Department intelligence unit, Santorum said: "Since 2003, coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent. Despite many efforts to locate and destroy Iraq's pre-Gulf War chemical munitions, filled and unfilled pre-Gulf War chemical munitions are assessed to still exist."
so whoopty they found 500 munitions the last 3 years.
its no secret that he used to have them, for gods sake, the whole world has seen images of a gassed kurdish village. UN inspectors have made them destroy most, and ofcoruse they tried to hide a bunch. who cares?

the bush adm. claimed nucleair programs, mobile labs that produced, hidden factories and that irak was a threath to world peace, this was NOT based on some 500 hidden old bombs, this was based on new 'evidence' which they presented at the UN, and which all proved to be FALSE. by the time of the invation, saddam was effortless.

The facts are in: Hussein had WMD that he didn't destroy. The war was 100% justified. As usual the right was right.

Hm, Donald Rumsfeld's office says otherwise...

As usual the right was right.

You truely are amazing.

You truely are amazing.

You aren't. :|

Hm, Donald Rumsfeld's office says otherwise...

All that matters here, James, are the facts. Hussein had WMD. A large amount of them. He had to be stopped.

We'll disregard for a moment that I would argue against the propriety of the war even if it WERE crystal clear that Saddam had WMDs.

If this was the smoking gun you oddly seem to be trying to assert that it is, then...um...people would be saying as much. And the Department of Defense certainly wouldn't be saying the opposite.

ofcourse they dont, how is 500 crappy old bombseys a reason for a fullout war? when they claimed a nucleair program, and lively production of WMD?

so whoopty they found 500 munitions the last 3 years.
its no secret that he used to have them, for gods sake, the whole world has seen images of a gassed kurdish village. UN inspectors have made them destroy most, and ofcoruse they tried to hide a bunch. who cares?

That was part of that whole UNSCOM thing....disarm, verifiably destroy existing stockpiles. You know, that old saw. Apparently he did'nt disarm completely. Hmmm. Quick, move the goal posts!


the bush adm. claimed nucleair programs, mobile labs that produced, hidden factories and that irak was a threath to world peace, this was NOT based on some 500 hidden old bombs, this was based on new 'evidence' which they presented at the UN, and which all proved to be FALSE. by the time of the invation, saddam was effortless.

Your grasp of recent history is less than impressive. Go read through the various resolutions from both the UN, and the U.S.,....there's lots more than just that.

ofcourse they dont, how is 500 crappy old bombseys a reason for a fullout war? when they claimed a nucleair program, and lively production of WMD?

They're just desperate. They do this about once every six months. The first time some of these "WMDs" were found, two mortar shells, they claimed 'OMG THE WMD STOCKPILES THE WAR IS JUSTIFIED!!!!!!!!!'. They've done the same thing with the "Mobile weapons labs" that weren't, and with all kinds of junk. THey're just desperate to find something to justify their faith in the BA.

A handful of defunct mortar shells floating around on the black market is hardly thousands of tonnes of weapons of mass destruction and the means to deliver them, that we supposedly went to war over.

I wonder if rick Santorum is going to get in trouble for leaking classified documents??

Good Lord it just gets better and better..

Is this what Santorum and Hoffa are saying is proof of WMD's?

A letter from John Negroponte??? John Negroponte!!!

http://instapundit.com/images/Iraqdoc.pdf


If you don't know who he is, or about him, better read up on it..

Good Lord it just gets better and better..

Is this what Santorum and Hoffa are saying is proof of WMD's?

A letter from John Negroponte??? John Negroponte!!!

http://instapundit.com/images/Iraqdoc.pdf


If you don't know who he is, or about him, better read up on it..

Hahaha.

The sad thing is, even after all the times in the past that this same kind of thing has happened, the next time TownHall.com or NRO or Fox News busts the OMG WMDS FOUND line, they'll still fall for it.

Hahahahaha... This entire thread is good for a laugh...

So appearintly, not wasting the time and funds destroying something that has the potency of bread mold and represents less then 00.25% of what you once had is proof of harboring Weapons of Mass Destruction!!!

Seriously people... Why not just paint a target on your ass instead of arguing that holding .25% of extremely, extremely outdated, rusting weapons of which you have no way getting to the source, is proof of intent to attack a source. Youd save time.

Hahaha.

The sad thing is, even after all the times in the past that this same kind of thing has happened, the next time TownHall.com or NRO or Fox News busts the OMG WMDS FOUND line, they'll still fall for it.


Yea, that might make a cool t-shirt, "OMG WMD's! We found em!":p


But seriously, I've been trying to find the source of this, some evidence, pictures, something, anything..

I found this..


"In a nutshell: a. Some (forgotten) shells, artifacts of the Iraq-Iran war, were found buried near the Iran border, and b. In 2004, other shells were found that were no longer active. According to the Washington Post, "intelligence officials reaffirmed that the shells were old and were not the suspected weapons of mass destruction sought in Iraq after the 2003 invasion."

http://uspolitics.about.com/b/a/207772.htm


The lawmakers pointed to an unclassified summary from a report by the National Ground Intelligence Center regarding 500 chemical munitions shells that had been buried near the Iranian border, and then long forgotten, by Iraqi troops during their eight-year war with Iran, which ended in 1988.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/21/AR2006062101837.html

Jesus Christ, any dummy knows that in a warzone all sorts of nasty things get lft behind, in this case it looks like it was some old shells that were buried in the ground back in the 1980's!!!! This wasn't some elaborate NBC weapons lab making huge stockpiles of WMD's that Saddam was intent on using on America like the Bush administration claimed Iraq was doing. Every once in awhile some construction crew finds an old WW2 shell buried here in L.A. Does that mean that those WW2 era shells are being mass produced today?:p

"The U.S. military announced in 2004 in Iraq that several crates of the old shells had been uncovered and that they contained a blister agent that was no longer active. Neither the military nor the White House nor the CIA considered the shells to be evidence of what was alleged by the Bush administration to be a current Iraqi program to make chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.

Last night, intelligence officials reaffirmed that the shells were old and were not the suspected weapons of mass destruction sought in Iraq after the 2003 invasion."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/21/AR2006062101837.html


I don't think 2,500 US soldiers died to find some old battlefield relics halfway around the world...:nonono:

Your grasp of recent history is less than impressive. Go read through the various resolutions from both the UN, and the U.S.,....there's lots more than just that. what do you mean?

Hahahahaha... This entire thread is good for a laugh...

So appearintly, not wasting the time and funds destroying something that has the potency of bread mold and represents less then 00.25% of what you once had is proof of harboring Weapons of Mass Destruction!!!

Seriously people... Why not just paint a target on your ass instead of arguing that holding .25% of extremely, extremely outdated, rusting weapons of which you have no way getting to the source, is proof of intent to attack a source. Youd save time.


They wern't even part of Saddam's conventional arsenal prior to the war, they were old shells long forgotten and buried out in the desert along the Iranian border!

lets repeat this once more...

"intelligence officials reaffirmed that the shells were old and were not the suspected weapons of mass destruction sought in Iraq after the 2003 invasion."

The really sad thing is, this isn't, by a long shot, the first time they've fallen for this. And, no matter how many times it happens, they fall for the exact same lies by the exact same liars, and never learn to question them.

It's like a cult.

lets repeat this once more...


Even better..

The lawmakers pointed to an unclassified summary from a report by the National Ground Intelligence Center regarding 500 chemical munitions shells that had been buried near the Iranian border, and then long forgotten, by Iraqi troops during their eight-year war with Iran, which ended in 1988.

:|

What was the current U.S. administrations position on the use of these weapons back in the 1980's? What was Rumsfeld's??

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/handshake300.jpg

Oh..

Right..

They didn't give a crap, they only cared about the flow of oil, the irony..

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

"Following further high-level policy review, Ronald Reagan issued National Security Decision Directive (NSDD) 114, dated November 26, 1983, concerned specifically with U.S. policy toward the Iran-Iraq war. The directive reflects the administration's priorities: it calls for heightened regional military cooperation to defend oil facilities, and measures to improve U.S. military capabilities in the Persian Gulf, and directs the secretaries of state and defense and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to take appropriate measures to respond to tensions in the area. It states, "Because of the real and psychological impact of a curtailment in the flow of oil from the Persian Gulf on the international economic system, we must assure our readiness to deal promptly with actions aimed at disrupting that traffic." It does not mention chemical weapons"

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/iraq26.pdf


The Gipper has spoken, they didn't care at the time, they certainly don't care about what happened 20-25 years ago, but they still care about one thing, the oil.

WMD's HAVE BEEN FOUND IN WASHINGTON DC !!! :eek:


MORE TO FOLLOW !!


military stockpiles of chemical weapons, which total more than 70,000 metric tons (http://www.thebulletin.org/article.php?art_ofn=so01tucker)


That is amazing, and it's a much larger and possible threat than any old rotting shells in the deserts of Iraq!!

But the past came back to haunt Spring Valley on January 5, 1993, when a backhoe digging a sewer line in front of a recently constructed house in a luxury development uncovered a cache of rusting munitions, including four unexploded mortar rounds and three 75-millimeter artillery shells. [1] Within hours, army bomb-removal specialists wearing gas masks arrived by helicopter from Aberdeen Proving Group in Maryland. They determined that the mortar rounds still had fuses in them--that they were "live" and extremely dangerous. Some of the munitions were also believed to contain mustard agent, an oily liquid that causes painful and debilitating burns and blisters on the skin and can inflict fatal lung damage if inhaled. Today, eight years later, additional chemical weapon dump sites have been discovered in Spring Valley, and the cleanup continues.

Damn, WMD's literally in peopl's backyards...:eek3:

http://www.dudehisattva.com/santorumwmd.jpg

:jester:

lol...

Damn, WMD's literally in peopl's backyards...:eek3:

Must be evidence of an active chemical weapons program right there in the USA!! If antiques found in the desert are trumpted as proof of an on-going, post Gulf War weapons program in Iraq than surely digging up mustard gas shells in peoples driveways is proof the US has an active program too, right?

Now the argument has morphed once again.

"Faced with the fact WMD's have been found, it's not enough WMD's."

Please leftists, state what number of WMD's passes the bar for you to finally admit you all "lied". 1000? 1500? 5000?
It's clear that no number will be acceptable.


I wonder if rick Santorum is going to get in trouble for leaking classified documents??

Oh that's brilliant. It was a declassified summary. Pay attention Fabio.

Now the argument has morphed once again.

"Faced with the fact WMD's have been found, it's not enough WMD's."

Please leftists, state what number of WMD's passes the bar for you to finally admit you all "lied". 1000? 1500? 5000?
It's clear that no number will be acceptable.

What isn't acceptable are claims that 15-and 20-year-old relics from the Reagan Administration somehow count as proof that Saddam had active WMD programs around March of 2003.

Are the finds of WWI-era mustard-gas shells turning up in Spring Valley to be taken by the world as evidence that the US still has an active chemical WMD program? Yes or no?

What would be acceptable is for Donald Rumsfeld to show the world all those many tons of fresh chemical and biological weapons he said he knew the whereabouts of. You remember don't you?

"We know where they [WMD] are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.""

Now the argument has morphed once again.

"Faced with the fact WMD's have been found, it's not enough WMD's."


Nah... I think any 'debate' stops at every branch of intelligent in the government talking to their shoes and saying 'so... yea, this isnt really at all what we meant by WMD in Iraq'. Only b/c it would be hysterical if they admitted that these few antiques were the 'WMD'.

Seriously dude, only a radical would try and make these out to be the justification for war.

It's clear that no number will be acceptable.



We did not go to war over rusting relics of pre 1991 Iraqi special weapons programs

Here is an official report of the 237 misleading (read:Lies) statements from the BA regarding Iraq's WMD's

http://www.house.gov/reform/min/pdfs_108_2/pdfs_inves/pdf_admin_iraq_on_the_record_rep.pdf

And here is a very tidy chronology of the evolution of said "misleading" statements before and during the war

http://www.rotten.com/library/history/war/wmd/saddam/

Of course, even professional liars drop a truth-bomb now and then

28 May 2003 Paul Wolfowitz declares: "For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue -- weapons of mass destruction -- because it was the one reason everyone could agree on."

This seems like a very simple debate. Everyone in the administration and DOD is saying that these are not at all related to the WMD's that were the catalyst for the war. They have nothing to do with the invasion of Iraq, if they did, the BA would be all over it. [/debate]

Alas! The smoking dud.

Can paint be considered a WMD? If you get it on your clothes, it can do some irreparable damage.

Now the argument has morphed once again.

"Faced with the fact WMD's have been found, it's not enough WMD's."

Please leftists, state what number of WMD's passes the bar for you to finally admit you all "lied". 1000? 1500? 5000?
It's clear that no number will be acceptable.


It's the neo-cons who keep moving the goalposts, I already de-bunked this ridiculous assertion that these were anything other than old, discarded, buried junk from the 1980's Iran-Iraq war.

It was the neo-cons who said Saddam had active weapons of mass destructions programs on a grand scale and he was mass producing the things with the intent on attacking us with them.

You said this, you never said we were going to war over old discarded material from the Iran-Iraq war. But since crazy ass Rick Santorum thought he could somehow capitalize on this bit of information by announcing this as some big new discovery when it's nothing of the sort, the right wing blogostan and and all the neo-cons are foaming at the mouth, thinking they've got something to justify all the blood they've spilled. Thankfully, people that care for the truth have the facts on their side to prove the knee jerkers wrong again.

Besides, who would classify old degraded shells from the Iran-Iraq war as a "WMD" to this date when the material inside is degraded past the point of being useful as a weapon?

So in fact, no "WMD's" have been found, no more than old shells lying in a southern battlefield are evidence the south is attempting to attack the north again..:rofl: :rofl:

You guys said this about Iraq:

Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. - Dick Cheney, August 26, 2002

Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons. - George W. Bush, September 12, 2002

Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent. - George W. Bush, January 28, 2003

We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons - the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have. - George W. Bush, February 8, 2003

"The Iraqi regime is a threat of unique urgency. . . . It has developed weapons of mass death" President Bush (10.02.02)

“We have also discovered through intelligence
that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas."

State of the Union Address – 1/28/2003

"Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at [past nuclear] sites."

Bush speech to the nation – 10/7/2002

"We know he's been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons, and we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."

VP Dick Cheney – “Meet the Press” 3/16/2003

The Iraqi regime has violated all of those obligations. It possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. It has given shelter and support to terrorism and practices terror against its own people.

The entire world has witnessed Iraq's 11-year history of defiance, deception, and bad faith.

We also must never forget the most vivid events of recent history. On September 11, 2001, America felt its vulnerability -- even to threats that gather on the other side of the earth. We resolved then, and we are resolved today, to confront every threat, from any source, that could bring sudden terror and suffering to America.

Members of the Congress of both political parties, and members of the United Nations Security Council, agree that Saddam Hussein is a threat to peace and must disarm. We agree that the Iraqi dictator must not be permitted to threaten America and the world with horrible poisons, and diseases, and gases, and atomic weapons.

n 1995, after several years of deceit by the Iraqi regime, the head of Iraq's military industries defected. It was then that the regime was forced to admit that it had produced more than 30,000 liters of anthrax and other deadly biological agents. The inspectors, however, concluded that Iraq had likely produced two to four times that amount. This is a massive stockpile of biological weapons that has never been accounted for, and is capable of killing millions.

And surveillance photos reveal that the regime is rebuilding facilities that it has used to produce chemical and biological weapons.

Every chemical and biological weapon that Iraq has or makes is a direct violation of the truce that ended the Persian Gulf War in 1991.

Yet Saddam Hussein has chosen to build and keep these weapons, despite international sanctions, U.N. demands, and isolation from the civilized world. Iraq possesses ballistic missiles with a likely range of hundreds of miles -- far enough to strike Saudi Arabia, Israel, Turkey, and other nations -- in a region where more than 135,000 American civilians and service members live and work.

We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical and biological weapons across broad areas. We are concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using UAVs for missions targeting the United States.

There is a reason. We have experienced the horror of September 11. We have seen that those who hate America are willing to crash airplanes into buildings full of innocent people. Our enemies would be no less willing -- in fact they would be eager -- to use a biological, or chemical, or a nuclear weapon.

Knowing these realities, America must not ignore the threat gathering against us. Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof -- the smoking gun -- that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/10/07/bush.transcript/



All that was BS, but it sure worked in suckering in the gullible half of the nation. so never accuse us of lying again when you guys live off of being dishonest.:nonono:


Oh that's brilliant. It was a declassified summary. Pay attention Fabio.


There was question as to whether or not they were classified, Santorum called them "classified documents".

"I'll show you the classified documents right here. And it says that in fact that there are assessed that there are additional weapons that we need to find. I can't go into the details. It's in the classified portion."

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/H-C-Santorum-Classified-WMD.wmv

Watch him say so there.

So it is you who needs to pay attention, or learn about a subject before shooting off about it.


There is more on this involving John Negroponte here..

" The newly declassified military intelligence report was released Wednesday by National Intelligence Director John Negroponte. Santorum and Hoekstra had urged him to release the report this week during congressional debates on Iraq.

The senior Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee questioned the timing of the report's release. "What worries me is that the intelligence community — Ambassador Negroponte in particular — may be playing a partisan role in the 2006 election," California Rep. Jane Harman."


http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/008034.php


:nonono:

Those clowns just keep digging themselves a deeper hole..

It's true that these weapons are old and degraded, and many claim that they don't actually qualify as "weapons of mass destruction". Still, their discovery does put a big dent in the anti-war crowd's absolutist claims. They do have to do a bit of qualifying now, unlike in the past.

I reckon that eventually they're going to find something that does qualify unequivocally as a WMD. Some people will have to do some serious crow eating then ...

It's true that these weapons are old and degraded, and many claim that they don't actually qualify as "weapons of mass destruction". Still, their discovery does put a big dent in the anti-war crowd's absolutist claims. They do have to do a bit of qualifying now, unlike in the past.

No, it doesn't and no, they don't. The "anti-war" crowd's argument that Hussein didn't have any sort of active WMD program at the time of the March 2003 invasion and therefore wasn't any sort of a threat remains wholly intact. After all, we're simply in agreement with the 2001 assessment by Powell and Rice that Hussein was contained and a non-threat:

"And frankly they have worked. He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors. So in effect, our policies have strengthened the security of the neighbors of Iraq..." - Powell, 24-Feb-2001

"But in terms of Saddam Hussein being there, let's remember that his country is divided, in effect. He does not control the northern part of his country. We are able to keep arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt." - Condoleeza Rice, 29-Jul-2001

The world is quite aware of the Hussein regime's chemical weapons activities of the 1980s. They're also quite aware of the handshake heard 'round the world...

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/handshake300.jpg

...when Ronnie sent Rummy to make nice with the tyrant when he was at his murderous worst. But the world is also aware of the devastation of Iraq's programs wrought by the Gulf War, the subsequent choking sanctions and no-fly zones partitioning his country and his inability to project any sort of threat to his neighbors, let alone the US.

Queue boedicca now with her tired one-trick pony "Oil For Food" scandal but the fact is the only threat that posed was to good taste: Saddam funneled much of his OFF money into lavish palaces and priviledge for his inner circle.

I reckon that eventually they're going to find something that does qualify unequivocally as a WMD. Some people will have to do some serious crow eating then ...

While we're waiting for that to happen perhaps you could enlighten us on the whereabouts of those specific WMD that Rummy told the world he knew the location of...you remember...""We know where they [WMD] are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.""

If there are comparatively fresh chemical and bio weapons lying around in labs or bunkers in Iraq, how come the insurgents haven't been using them?

When do the pro war Bush sycophants eat the plate full of crow before them?

Seems to be older stuff.....but 500 is more that can be explained away as discarded, overlooked, or lost.

Not on the wires yet, but it will be soon enough.

Of course it's going to be 'older stuff', since he got the capability and most of the materials from the U.S. in the first place ... remember all those pics of Rumsfeld shaking Saddam's hand and grinning like a diseased monkey in the 1980's? The U.S. also armed and trained the Taliban and what became Al Quada.

Funny how Republicans do that kind of stuff, and then turn around and spend trillions to go after them less than 5 years later ...

Ah, Kanuckstang beat me with the pic by a couple of minutes ... this software put in Post Limbo for 10 minutes so I went to another board ...

Anybody know what causes the timing out here? It's particularly annoying during the day, for some reason.

Funny how Republicans do that kind of stuff, and then turn around and spend trillions to go after them less than 5 years later ...

1. Create a crisis.
2. Sell yourself as the only solution to the crisis you created.
3. Laugh all the way to the bank.

Yes, well, now they're busy arming Pakistan with advanced fighters and strategic nuclear missiles. Then, they run over and make India the same offers ... it's pretty clear who the real threat to U.S. national security is; it's sittng in the White House, and it's Party is a cadre of simpletons.

I reckon that eventually they're going to find something that does qualify unequivocally as a WMD. Some people will have to do some serious crow eating then ...

Which part of "We did not invade Iraq because of some pre-1991 special weapons relics" did you not get ?


Yes, well, now they're busy arming Pakistan with advanced fighters and strategic nuclear missiles. Then, they run over and make India the same offers .



1. Create a crisis.
2. Sell yourself as the only solution to the crisis you created.
3. Laugh all the way to the bank.

And the real truth and motivation to the conflict are hinted at in these last 2 ^ posts ... in the mean time ... Halliburton KBR enjoys a tripling of stock prices and revenue as a result of the creme-de-la-creme "Cost Plus" government contracts "servicing" the troops in Iraq with overpriced food and supplies. They have been given a green light to continue the treasury-loot by the repubs who voted down the "Honest Leadership and Accountability in Contracting Act of 2006" http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:SP4230:

Never heard of it? ... dont feel left out ... no one else did either

And the real truth and motivation to the conflict are hinted at in these last 2 ^ posts ... in the mean time ... Halliburton KBR enjoys a tripling of stock prices and revenue as a result of the creme-de-la-creme "Cost Plus" government contracts "servicing" the troops in Iraq with overpriced food and supplies.

Are there still people out there who don't know this game? I mean besides the Bush bots here. Didn't a famous Republican General and President warn us about this? Man, what was that guy's name ...

Are there still people out there who don't know this game? I mean besides the Bush bots here. Didn't a famous Republican General and President warn us about this? Man, what was that guy's name ...

Well what he was warning about was the congress not the presidency, but the lefties who reviled him at the time, but now love to quote him will never admit that.

I have already started to see lefties act like they supported Reagan's policies recently.

sometimes it is funny because you can actually go back and see where the person openly reviled him in the 80's.

dupes all.

:bs: ^ to all of the above ...

in particular ... what Ike said

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

lol, this isnt even a discussion.

Funny.

Libbies have been whinily saying "where are the wmd" and when they are found they say"

"oh those are old wmd"

What a joke.

Funny.

Libbies have been whinily saying "where are the wmd" and when they are found they say"

"oh those are old wmd"

What a joke.

The Bush Administration, the DoD, and the CIA are "libbies"? Because they're saying that these aren't what Bush was talking about before the war.

Funny.

Libbies have been whinily saying "where are the wmd" and when they are found they say"

"oh those are old wmd"

What a joke. compare the claims and what they found. if you then still think that this is it, youre the joke.

Another reason the WMD was a BS argument then, and today Santorum is the "fabricator."
Warnings on WMD 'Fabricator' Were Ignored, Ex-CIA Aide Says

By Joby Warrick
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, June 25, 2006; Page A01

In late January 2003, as Secretary of State Colin Powell prepared to argue the Bush administration's case against Iraq at the United Nations, veteran CIA officer Tyler Drumheller sat down with a classified draft of Powell's speech to look for errors. He found a whopper: a claim about mobile biological labs built by Iraq for germ warfare.

Drumheller instantly recognized the source, an Iraqi defector suspected of being mentally unstable and a liar. The CIA officer took his pen, he recounted in an interview, and crossed out the whole paragraph.

A few days later, the lines were back in the speech. Powell stood before the U.N. Security Council on Feb. 5 and said: "We have first-hand descriptions of biological weapons factories on wheels and on rails."

The sentence took Drumheller completely by surprise.

"We thought we had taken care of the problem," said the man who was the CIA's European operations chief before retiring last year, "but I turn on the television and there it was, again."

While the administration has repeatedly acknowledged intelligence failures over Iraqi weapons claims that led to war, new accounts by former insiders such as Drumheller shed light on one of the most spectacular failures of all: How U.S. intelligence agencies were eagerly drawn in by reports about a troubled defector's claims of secret germ factories in the Iraqi desert. The mobile labs were never found.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/24/AR2006062401081.html

This is nothing more than 500 of the 550 "special munitions" that UNSCOM reported as unaccountable. Nothing more than "explained away as discarded, overlooked, or lost." Of course this existed prior to 1991, and Saddam should not have been expected to find it inside his borders in 10+ years of the UN demanding he account for it.
We "found" it in 3 years during a quagmire of an illegal war in which we never had enough troops on the ground. Makes you wonder why we found it so fast, huh.
Oh and the chemical weapons that were intended for the US Embassy in Jordan had no links to Saddam. It is purely coincidence that that plot was devised by Zarqawi, who just happened to be the #1 terrorist in Iraq, and was operating an Al-Qaeda sponsored terrorist training camp in Iraq prior to the invasion, because Saddam had no accountability for that camp, hell Zarqawi was just a freedom fighter beheading evil crusading infidels while protecting the arab oil reserves from the nasty neo-con Americans. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3635381.stm
Oh and the plan to put chemical weapons in tanks and fly above a battlefield equally dispersing the chemicals onto the enemy, the plan "known" as Thul Fiqar, as documented in July 1998 by Lieutenant-Colonel Gabriele Kraatz-Wadsack, of the German Army Medical Service, one of UNSCOM's top on-site investigators, that is just another lie. http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/09/12/1031608299446.html I bet she is actually W's German mistress, and he brainwashed her to make all that up so that he could make a run for the Presidency in 2000.
It is all neo-con lies intended to make the rich richer.

You know guys although everyone here is pretty much singing my song, you would be surprised how seriously some people are taking this news and just how much they believe it justifies the war.

You know guys although everyone here is pretty much singing my song, you would be surprised how seriously some people are taking this news and just how much they believe it justifies the war.

I don't think they really believe it, I think they really want to belive it.

^ Correct! They want to believe it, but they have help. Networks like Fox news, or should I say Faux news, give credence to bs like this when they allow Sean Hannity to report this in a non-critical way, thereby giving the viewers the impression that the bs is actually true! (which is exactly why I emailed that buffoon the other day). The same thing happens on so-called conservative talk radio (i.e. Bill Bennett).

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/ta/2006/ta060623.gif


:jester: :jester:

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/ta/2006/ta060623.gif


:jester: :jester:

OMG that's funny :rofl: :rofl:

lol...

LOL and probably close to the truth.

How many times have these guys fallen for it when some rightwingers say OMG WMDS FOUND and it turns out to be bunk? Will they ever learn?

Someone should photopshop the poster of a certain recent superhero movie to a "Banky Returns" title...