http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/06/21/minimum.wage.reut/index.html


WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Republican-controlled Senate refused Wednesday to raise the minimum wage, rejecting an election-year proposal from Democrats for the first increase in nearly a decade.

The vote was 52-46, eight short of the 60 needed.

"I don't think the Republicans get it," said Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Massachusetts, who backed a proposal for a three-step increase in the current wage floor to $7.25 an hour. The federal minimum wage has been fixed at $5.15 an hour since 1997.


. . . the same people who just voted themselves a pay increase . . .

Wow. That's total crap.

:nice:

If there were some way we could make government officials live off minimum wage, I bet you would see it raised really fast then. Those corrupt bastards.

Minimum wage is way to low. How do people support their familys?

Minimum wage is way to low. How do people support their familys?

They shack up with whole extended families or several small families living together. For example, one of the places I looked at before I bought this place was a one bedroom apartment with a family of five living in it. The parents used the livingroom as a bedroom and the three kids shared the bedroom.

If you raise minimum wage will everything else go up?

Depends.

The way the country is set up at the moment, probably so yeah. But if the SEC would do it's damned job and prohibit massive corporation mergers, then the market would be more competitive and would force the cost of goods and services down instead of monopolies dominating a market and forcing prices to go up.

Yes, I know, it's more complicated than just that, but the lack of competition does play a significant factor.

Minimum wage is way to low. How do people support their familys?they get jobs that pay more than minimum wage.

Class warfare.

I just hope one day it comes back to bite them in the ass.

they get jobs that pay more than minimum wage.

Yes. Like car thievery, street prostitution, bank robbery, burglary, shoplifting, armed robbery, check kiting, identity theft, professional prison inmate, etc., ...

I can't say I care about this bill failing, though; $7.25 an hour is as much of a joke as $5.15. It should be indexed to inflation, which would put it at around $9 to $10 an hour.

Class warfare.

absolutely no question about it.

I just hope one day it comes back to bite them in the ass.

No, it will bite those of us who don't have the money to move to Canada or Europe or Bermuda in the ass. The vermin who voted against it will live in style elsewhere.

I can't say I care about this bill failing, though; $7.25 an hour is as much of a joke as $5.15. It should be indexed to inflation, which would put it at around $9 to $10 an hour.so, you think the kid that bags your groceries, or says "would you like fries with that?" should make $10 an hour? :eek:

Good.

Democrats will eventually get the message that Americans aren't buying what they are selling.

Depends.

The way the country is set up at the moment, probably so yeah.

I don't know; they don't pass any cost savings on to consumers now as it is ... they have lots of room to absorb such a tiny increase in mimimum wage.

But if the SEC would do it's damned job and prohibit massive corporation mergers, then the market would be more competitive and would force the cost of goods and services down instead of monopolies dominating a market and forcing prices to go up.

Yes, I know, it's more complicated than just that, but the lack of competition does play a significant factor.

This is certainly correct.

Minimum wage is way to low. How do people support their familys?

These jobs are not the ones that are intended for people who "support" families.

Besides, I thought the left derides burger flipping?

so, you think the kid that bags your groceries, or says "would you like fries with that?" should make $10 an hour? :eek:

Why not? Most stores have been doing away with baggers and checkers for a long time anyway, so what's your point?

If you want a 'service economy', you better hope those 'service' jobs pay a lot more than criminal illegal aliens are getting and what minimum wage is now, unless you just really like poverty and a failing economy.

These jobs are not the ones that are intended for people who "support" families.

Besides, I thought the left derides burger flipping?

Well, that's before we found out it pays a quarter million dollars a year, like you made doing it ...

I don't know; they don't pass any cost savings on to consumers now as it is ...

Hmmmm....that sounds funky.

If a business is "gouging" its customers unduly, then there is a huge incentive for another company to enter the market and undercut the price.



they have lots of room to absorb such a tiny increase in mimimum wage.

I don't know what industry you are talking about, but the fact is that the people who employ the most min wage workers are small businesses with less than 50 employees.

here this might help...think of the "family farmer".

These jobs are not the ones that are intended for people who "support" families.
exactly. minimum wage jobs are for unskilled, entry level positions, generally the kind filled by high school students. if you don't want to make minimum wage, learn a skill.

Why not? Most stores have been doing away with baggers and checkers for a long time anyway, so what's your point?

If you want a 'service economy', you better hope those 'service' jobs pay a lot more than criminal illegal aliens are getting and what minimum wage is now, unless you just really like poverty and a failing economy.so, you'd really pay the little stoner who works the drive through $10 an hour? i call bs.

Well, that's before we found out it pays a quarter million dollars a year, like you made doing it ...

Yes. Restaurant work can be extremely lucrative. I started out washing dishes and bussing. But I did flip burgers in almost every place I worked including when I worked at one of the most exclusive hotel/resort in the world.

. . . the same people who just voted themselves a pay increase . . .
I can't find any record of any recent Senate vote on the issue of the recent pay increase. Can you please post a link to the roll call of that vote if you come across it?

I can't say that I'm a fan of the pay increases that our legislative branch awards itself. A couple of ideas I have in mind:

-Those who vote against an increase in their pay should be held to that vote and not be paid the increased amount. While not really a reform since it likely would ensure that pay increases would go through, it certainly would cut down on useless populist grandstanding. I am peeved by legislators making a show about their opposition toward the pay increase all the while having no problem with accepting the filthy lucre that they made a show of voting against. As for those few who take the difference in pay increases and donate it to charity, good on them.

-Make Congressional pay raises subject to a national referendum. A by-congressional district (for representatives) or by-state (for senators) vote would not work because of the unfortunate reality of pork-barrel spending.

No matter how much I dislike the pay increases, that distaste for them will never translate into support for an increase in the minimum wage on my part.

they get jobs that pay more than minimum wage.

Oh and how is that going to happen? I doubt if there working at a minimum wage paying job they can get any better. What if there disabled? I know your not "suppose" to discriminate against the handicapped. People still do.

so, you'd really pay the little stoner who works the drive through $10 an hour? i call bs.
You should use the little flag. :bs: It makes it more special. :)

These jobs are not the ones that are intended for people who "support" families.

Besides, I thought the left derides burger flipping?

Oh and your saying no one who supports familys make minimum wage? I know single moms who have to work two jobs minimum wage they work 80 hours a week. Then after that they barely get enough to feed there family.

Don't be stupid and say something like that.

Oh and how is that going to happen? I doubt if there working at a minimum wage paying job they can get any better. What if there disabled? I know your not "suppose" to discriminate against the handicapped. People still do.


They get medicare and social security benefits.

They get medicare and social security benefits.
That is not enough to pay for everything they need. Especially for the disabled. They need extra money coming in to pay for Hmm what do people need? Oh yeah food.

Don't be stupid and say something like that.

This is just redundant in his case, as well as the guy claiming he made 'big money working at an exclusive hotel' flipping burgers ... they're just trolls, like most Internet 'Libertarians'. For the most part they're living at home and just killing time on the internet pretending to be 'college student's and/or waiting for their parents to die and leave them a lot of stuff.

They get medicare and social security benefits.

And how much do you those 'benefits' are, exactly? ... just give us a general range of what you think the checks are ...

It depends. If they know where to apply they can get a lot of government services for free but if they don't go to any lengths and just draw disablity it's not that much but they could live on it.

It depends. If they know where to apply they can get a lot of government services for free

What would these 'free services' be, exactly? We know it isn't going to be housing; less than 10% of people who qualify for assisted housing get it. There's a long waiting list; mostly clogged with criminal illegal aliens coasting in on an anchor baby, or a legal immigrant who isn't paid squat, but that's another issue ...

but if they don't go to any lengths and just draw disablity it's not that much but they could live on it.

Live where? The homeless shelters are all full; you have to get on a waiting list there, too ...

I would just like a dollar amount here; it doesn't make any difference what state it is, it's a Federal determination ... what range do you think it would fall into?

so, you'd really pay the little stoner who works the drive through $10 an hour? i call bs.

Thats a little sterotypical huh? People forget not eveyone has the option or funds to go to school and get a career.

I had an aunt who lived off those services and she did fine. :shrug:

Well, that's not what I asked. If you don't know, just say so; it's not a crime or anything.

$5.15 per hour today would be equal to $2.98 per hour when they raised it last ... that is just messed up

and if they indexed to inflation like they should ... it would be $8.88 per hour today

I don't know exactly but I could probably find out.

and if they indexed to inflation like they should ... it would be $8.88 per hour today

Yes, probably by the way the Fed figures CPI indexes it could be that low, I guess. Reflecting inflation for real people it would be higher, almost certainly so.

Yes, probably by the way the Fed figures CPI indexes it could be that low, I guess. Reflecting inflation for real people it would be higher, almost certainly so.

true ... I used the official CPI (http://www.bls.gov/cpi/) which is badly biased to the low end

true ... I used the official CPI (http://www.bls.gov/cpi/) which is badly biased to the low end

Yes it is. It gave me $8.86 a couple of weeks ago or maybe longer, I don't remember, which is why I recognized the number.

The Bush Administration has almost doubled the money supply since 2000, probably more , so we can look forward to that hitting in a couple of years. It's truly amazing to look at a chart on M3 growth from 1980 to the present, and see that huge bulge.

Increasing the minimum wage ultimately eliminates jobs. When was the last time you saw a teenager pumping your gas? All it does is pump up already inflated union wages, which are indexed to the minimum. BTW, I supported my family on minimum wage when it was $3/hour, but made sure I didn't stay there.

Increasing the minimum wage ultimately eliminates jobs. When was the last time you saw a teenager pumping your gas? All it does is pump up already inflated union wages, which are indexed to the minimum. BTW, I supported my family on minimum wage when it was $3/hour, but made sure I didn't stay there.

Having to pay anything at all 'ultimately eliminates jobs'. So what? And who cares what you did? This is about the whole country, not mythical self-congratulatory anecdotes about being a Hero. Freeing the slaves caused a lot of 'problems' for plantation owners, too; should we bring back that cornerstone of the economy, too? ...

If a lousy $10 an hour eliminates a job, it's obvious it didn't need doing at all in the first place, pretending there is any truth at all to the ridiculous ideological hubris it indeed 'eliminates jobs'.

Increasing the minimum wage ultimately eliminates jobs. When was the last time you saw a teenager pumping your gas? All it does is pump up already inflated union wages, which are indexed to the minimum. BTW, I supported my family on minimum wage when it was $3/hour, but made sure I didn't stay there.
Well if it eliminates jobs then those jobs apparently aren't needed. Oh and i think i can live with out someone pumping my gas.

If all the minimum wage jobs pay so little that the people who are working them can't afford the basic costs of living, then what is being accomplished exactly?

Let's just raise the minimum wage to $50/hour. Then everyone would be rich, right? :rolleyes:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/06/22/estate.tax.ap.ap/index.html

So, let's add it up:

Vote against raising the minimum wage.
Vote to slash inheritance taxes.
And vote themselves automatic pay raises, just for good measure.

They cut the death tax? Good! :nice:

They cut the death tax? Good! :nice:


Because people like Paris Hilton worked hard for their money, they shouldn't have to pay any taxes!!

Or people like ranchers who end up having to sell the family ranch when their father passes away because they can't afford to pay the taxes on the inheritance. The ranch gets bought out by one of your favorite corporations, thus soilidifying their monopoly on beef. :rolleyes:

But you never thought of that, did you?

Thats a little sterotypical huh? People forget not eveyone has the option or funds to go to school and get a career.this is the whole point. minimum wage is the minimum, geared toward the lowest common denominator. not the single mom supporting 15 kids. i can't think of any denominator deserving of less pay than a stoned 16 year old working the drive through. people who are supporting families, need to get real jobs. i don't understand what's so hard about this. hell, even the fast food drive through pays more after you have a little experience.

people who are supporting families, need to get real jobs


That would be an interesting argument if it weren't for the fact that the vast majority of the people supporting a low (or nonexistant) minimum wage are the same people opposed to antitrust enforcement, educational assistance, and other policeis designed to keep those jobs existant and attainable.

That would be an interesting argument if it weren't for the fact that the vast majority of the people supporting a low (or nonexistant) minimum wage are the same people opposed to antitrust enforcement, educational assistance, and other policeis designed to keep those jobs existant and attainable.not me. :cool:

Having to pay anything at all 'ultimately eliminates jobs'. So what? And who cares what you did? This is about the whole country, not mythical self-congratulatory anecdotes about being a Hero. Freeing the slaves caused a lot of 'problems' for plantation owners, too; should we bring back that cornerstone of the economy, too? ...

If a lousy $10 an hour eliminates a job, it's obvious it didn't need doing at all in the first place, pretending there is any truth at all to the ridiculous ideological hubris it indeed 'eliminates jobs'.

If the job's worth $10/hour, that's what will be paid. Why should we force business owners to pay artificially high wages for jobs that are not worth the pay? Every time the minimum wage goes up, teenagers trying to get that first job find it that much harder. I guess we could always end up like France, where it's next to impossible to find that first job. BTW, I and my family care what I did, and I'm living proof you can survive on a little. You just don't want to stay there. Also, your elitist attitude towards menial labor is appalling.