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View Full Version : Israel can no longer rely on the support of Europe's Jews


orangikan
06-20-2006, 04:49 PM
I agree with the part that says that Israel "is becoming" a middle east country. That occured when it invaded in 1967 and remained to become colonial occupiers. Now they're killing 4-5 civilians for every "bad guy" they get!
The feeling is growing that Jewish honour and heritage have been more convincingly preserved in the diaspora

Max Hastings
Tuesday June 20, 2006
The Guardian

Whatever the outcome of the current Palestinian chaos, meaningful negotiations with Israel seem unlikely. The most plausible scenario is that Ehud Olmert will proceed unilaterally to draw new boundaries for his country, which will absorb significant Palestinian land, and institutionalise such dominance of the West Bank as to make a Palestinian state unworkable.

If this is the future, it is likely to yield fruits as bitter for Israelis as for Palestinians. The world, far from becoming more willing to acquiesce in Israel's expansion, is becoming less so. The generation of European non-Jews for whom the Holocaust is a seminal memory is dying. With them perishes much vicarious guilt.

Younger Europeans, not to mention the rest of the world, are more sceptical about Israel's territorial claims. They are less susceptible to moral arguments about redress for past horrors, which have underpinned Israeli actions for almost 60 years. We may hope that it will never become respectable to be anti-semitic. However, Israel is discovering that it can no longer frighten non-Jews out of opposing its policies merely by accusing them of anti-semitism.

There is also evidence of growing disenchantment with Israel in the Jewish diaspora. Feelings have changed since 1948 and the days when Jews around the world thought it a duty to support "their" nation in the promised land right or wrong, in good times or bad. David Goldberg, the former rabbi of the Liberal Jewish Synagogue in London, has just published a book that will rouse plenty of wrath in Israel. Entitled The Divided Self, its theme is that in modern times the Jews of the diaspora have preserved the honour and heritage of the Jewish people far more convincingly than Israel's citizens.

Goldberg, whom I should acknowledge as a friend, rejects the Zionist conceit that the only proper place for Jews is in Israel. He discerns an unhealthy artificiality about the society constructed beside the Mediterranean since 1948: "to assert itself, it must be rigid and inflexible". He notes that while genealogy has become a popular enthusiasm of diaspora Jews, Israelis prefer archaeology, "pursuing the distant past to authenticate an ancient connection with the land" in the absence of any more recent claim.

He tells a good story of returning on a boat from Israel to Marseilles in 1958, after a stint on a kibbutz. His efforts to make headway with pretty blond American passengers were thwarted by the presence of a tanned, muscular Israeli paratrooper, who effortlessly cut him out. When the boat stopped at Naples, this hero of Sinai announced that he was off to buy a watch. Beware of fakes, advised Goldberg, magnanimous in sexual defeat. The soldier ignored him, and was later seen hurling a worthless purchase into the sea.

If we were talking about Christians here, it might be called a parable. Goldberg believes that Israel has allowed military prowess to blind it to wisdom: "the Jewish fox knows many things, the Jewish hedgehog only one big thing". Or you may prefer a Talmudic saying: "better a live dog than a dead lion".

Goldberg defines the virtues of diaspora Jews, "adapting to novel circumstances and responding to changing times", in terms that would rouse the contempt of many Israelis. "Two thousand years of powerlessness have honed the antennae to detect where self-interest lies, what is on or not on ... The experience ... of learning to live circumspectly among more numerous and powerful neighbours is a surer guarantee of survival than the triumphalist illusions of a mere 50-odd years of statehood."

Some Israelis would say that this is the language of the ghetto, reflecting a willingness to defer, even to cringe; of exactly the kind their state was created to remove from the Jewish psyche. Yet Goldberg's book reflects a declining willingness among many diaspora Jews to write blank cheques for Israel, either literally or figuratively.

It is a painful experience for some Jews who achieve good and even great things in their own societies to find themselves cast as sin-eaters for the Jewish state. Most are reluctant to speak out as frankly against Israel's West Bank policies as Goldberg has, and as did the late and great Rabbi John Rayner, who came here from Germany with the kindertransport. But with each generation the emotional distance between Israel and the diaspora is growing.

In some respects, this reflects a situation Amos Oz prophesied. "People like you," he said to me almost 30 years ago, "who want Israel to go on behaving like a European society, are heading for disappointment. Israel is becoming a Middle Eastern country. In future, I hope that it will not behave worse than other Middle Eastern countries, but I doubt that it will behave any better."

As long as Israel retains US support, its rulers may feel they can shrug off the alienation not only of non-Jewish Europeans, but also of growing numbers of European Jews. Yet if David Goldberg is right that diaspora Jews today contribute far more to the "universal values" of civilisation than the people of Israel, then the Jewish state has a far more profound problem than that of frontiers.

Mich
06-21-2006, 09:53 AM
I agree with the part that says that Israel "is becoming" a middle east country. That occured when it invaded in 1967 and remained to become colonial occupiers. Now they're killing 4-5 civilians for every "bad guy" they get!

1. It's not "bad guys"; it's bad guys.

2. That's right, every 4-5 guys get killed as collateral damage. Your heart bleeds for them? Than congratulations! You're not ripe enough to fight terrorism.

If you're at loss as to what I mean by "ripe", than here's a concise clarification:

a. The classroom where your child learns hasn't been shelled by a rocket.
b. Your mother didn't almost have a heart attack because a rocket almost landed on her head.
c. You haven't gotten to the point of bothering at looking over your shoulder to see whether there's anything or anybody suspicious while you sit in a café and enjoy having a conversation with your friends.
d. Whenever you enter public areas filled with people, you don't even seldom feel kind of... well, uneasy.
e. You haven't come to the point of frustration at the defeatism of your own government that has a policy of accumulating "moral imperative" before protecting you and your beloved ones. This simply means that they prefer to sit and do nothing until something bad happens before they have the balls to do what is right, viz. execute an action that is 80% likely to result in the death of innocents along with the guilty ones because there's just no fcking way on earth you can get close enough to remove the guilty and spare the innocent because those cockroaches who call themselves "freedom fighters" use their own people as human shield. And all this for what? So that people like YOU will not have an opportunity to whine about bad evil Israel committing injustice against poor and good Palestinians.

In case you have felt some or all of the above and your heart still bleeds, well than it is plain moronism and I don't sympathize.

The list goes on but the bottom line is this: you, pal, are no more on the side of justice than I, who, having felt some of the enumerated above experiences just don't give a shit anymore whenever I hear that one of those goatfckers die. And you know what? It feels good. Less potential suicide bombers or breeders of suicide bombers.

As to those Jews in Europe: so what? Who cares? The irony is that I would rather expect a gentile German to support Israel more than I would expect European Jews to do so.

orangikan
06-21-2006, 10:09 AM
The list goes on but the bottom line is this: you, pal, are no more on the side of justice than I, who, having felt some of the enumerated above experiences just don't give a shit anymore whenever I hear that one of those goatfckers die. And you know what? It feels good. Less potential suicide bombers or breeders of suicide bombers.

As to those Jews in Europe: so what? Who cares? The irony is that I would rather expect a gentile German to support Israel more than I would expect European Jews to do so.

Well I guess you proved the article made it's point. Once occupiers stay they lose their ability to see the humanity of the bigger picture. To refer to all Palestinians as Goatf***rs (which would include the babies, the pregnant women, the old and infirm, the mentally ill, the disabled) places you firmly on the same side as the "Godless."

Mich
06-21-2006, 10:31 AM
Well I guess you proved the article made it's point. Once occupiers stay they lose their ability to see the humanity of the bigger picture. To refer to all Palestinians as Goatf***rs (which would include the babies, the pregnant women, the old and infirm, the mentally ill, the disabled) places you firmly on the same side as the "Godless."

You know as well as I do that I haven’t proven anything to you. You were well bent on seeing the things the way the anti-Israeli crowd usually does, otherwise you wouldn’t call my honesty a proof of any claim, because, after all, I am just one Israeli guy. And no, I sure am not on the same side as you because all this rhetoric about “humanity” and “the bigger picture” repulse me because I know them for the empty words they truly are. I’ve never confessed of having humanitarian principles; I have other principles which I consider more honorable and proper.

orangikan
06-21-2006, 03:45 PM
I’ve never confessed of having humanitarian principles; I have other principles which I consider more honorable and proper.

So did the Nazis! So do the Jihadis! Welcome to their club.

Mich
06-21-2006, 04:39 PM
So did the Nazis! So do the Jihadis! Welcome to their club.

So you're saying that whoever doesn't uphold humanitarian principles is a Nazi? :hmm:

Red shine´y
06-21-2006, 04:53 PM
Well I guess you proved the article made it's point. Once occupiers stay they lose their ability to see the humanity of the bigger picture.
It sure did. I always honoured exile Jews the most, maybe because I live a fragile life of "voluntary exile" myself. Once Zionists created that tear in ME continuum, it rapidly growed and became a cultural singularity, ejecting jewish wisdom into the vacuum and replacing it with nationalist mirages.

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