Are "alpha male" females intimidating to men because of their drive for dominance in all aspects of a relationship or are they intimidating because they are like chicks with dicks and it it therefore almost gay to be with an "alpha male" female?

It takes a Real Man / Alpha Male to handle an Alpha Female, hence, the supply of suitable mates is much smaller for us than it is for our Beta Female Sisters.

Just sayin'.

And what does it say about some guy if he thinks he can't out-alpha me? Isn't a challenge half the fun?

edit to add: Boe and I continue to step on each other. We're not the same person, but we might just share the same brain.

I think there are types that match for almost everyone. The tricky bit is liking the type that likes you back :)

I think a lot of women underestimate the "Middle of the Road" type guy=
I'll let you drive for a while,we're gonna scrap sometimes but I love you so sometimes I'll say yes when I don't want to...

We don't underestimate them; we just borrow money from them and make them drive us places.

I'm kidding, baby. :D

I think "alpha male" tendencies can spell doom in relationships for some people, but not all. Most people, especially men, only issue challenges they think they can win. If the "alpha female" is happy with a partner who doesn't even try to challenge their dominance, and can channel that competitive urge somewhere else, that can work out pretty well about half the time. The other half is when she says she's happy with a meek or retiring partner but ends up cheating with someone who challenges her more - and before the cheap shots begin I'll point out that I'm not talking from direct personal experience. I'm happily married; I've just watched a few friends play out that scenario (from both sides). If a woman expects her partner to challenge her at first but ultimately concede, time after time after time, she'll find the pickings pretty slim because few people of either sex are comfortable with helping someone else play such mind games. Those are the women who are truly doomed, though of course they'll never accept responsibility for the fact. They'll just have a long string of failed relationships between "wimps" on the one hand and "insecure chauvinist pigs" on the other.

Many of the same dynamics obviously work the other way too. I've even seen them between gay men, and (less often because I know fewer) lesbians. I don't mean to imply in any way that women cheat more or deceive themselves more or seek to dominate more than men. That's just not the way the original question was phrased.

There are no such things as "alpha male females." That's simply how extremely bitchy and high maintenence women like to define themselves. They're the type of woman that no man, except cuckolds, will tolerate.

Shut up, Pony. Don't anyone listen to him; he knows not of what he speaks.

At times Pony is merely over cynical.other times he's shockingly accurate-he's had a pretty negative experience to draw on...

There are no such things as "alpha male." That's simply how extremely bitchy and high maintenence men like to define themselves. They're the type of man that no woman should ever tolerate.

:|

I think a lot of women underestimate the "Middle of the Road" type guy=
I'll let you drive for a while,we're gonna scrap sometimes but I love you so sometimes I'll say yes when I don't want to...

:werd:

Of course, you can be a middle of the road type of guy and still not take any shit from demanding Alpha Females. One does not have to be an Alpha Male to be able to handle an Alpha Female.

brother Pony is right.

edit to add: Boe and I continue to step on each other. We're not the same person, but we might just share the same brain.
Who's got it today?

:werd:

Of course, you can be a middle of the road type of guy and still not take any shit from demanding Alpha Females. One does not have to be an Alpha Male to be able to handle an Alpha Female.

Dealing with any female requires patience,tact,and the ability to pretend to be wrong when they're on a rampage:p Seriously though,most women I know are gracious enough that if you're a little assertive and respectful-they give you some breathing room...

I think "alpha male" tendencies can spell doom in relationships for some people, but not all. Most people, especially men, only issue challenges they think they can win. If the "alpha female" is happy with a partner who doesn't even try to challenge their dominance, and can channel that competitive urge somewhere else, that can work out pretty well about half the time.

I too have seen this from both the woman is my friend side and the man is my friend side. Some people seem to need to be dominated, and I think that these matches can become quite unhealthy.

Also, I am probably considered an alpha male female bc I have a corporate job and am fairly successful for my age-- does that mean I act domineering in personal relationships, would hope not.

They'll just have a long string of failed relationships between "wimps" on the one hand and "insecure chauvinist pigs" on the other.

Good point. Part of the psychology of the "alpha female" is like that of a politician. Hillary is actually a good example of that. The unfortunate by-product of this kind of "alpha female" personality disorder is of course that they become repugnant to normal males and only attract "wimps" and "insecure chauvinist pigs." They take note of that and in turn start to care less about their appearance and channel their frustration of not getting satisfaction into a Freudian kind of oral phase in which they find temporaty solice in stuffing themselves with food. They then start packing on the pounds thus making them even less attractive to normal males. It is a vicious circle for them. :(

I have to say this thread is tripping me out. I don't even understand the concept of an "alpha male female." I guess you mean "alpha females" snouter?

Ok, when it comes to females, I don't think "alpha" means exactly the same thing as it does for males. It doesn't necessarily mean more "masuline" or "dominant" like it does applied to males. We're talking about different characteristics for each gender. I think alpha actually means more "desireable" for females, at least that's the way I've always understood it. I could be wrong here however.

For example, you have 3 women who are friends, 1 could be exceptionally pretty but not very assertive, another with average looks but a nice personality, and another with a very assertive/dominant personality but low on the looks scale...out of the three the exceptionally beautiful one will be percieved as the alpha. Not the less attractive one with the more assertive personality. Why? She's the most desirable.

Again, I could be wrong.

Good point. Part of the psychology of the "alpha female" is like that of a politician. Hillary is actually a good example of that. The unfortunate by-product of this kind of "alpha female" personality disorder is of course that they become repugnant to normal males and only attract "wimps" and "insecure chauvinist pigs." They take note of that and in turn start to care less about their appearance and channel their frustration of not getting satisfaction into a Freudian kind of oral phase in which they find temporaty solice in stuffing themselves with food. They then start packing on the pounds thus making them even less attractive to normal males. It is a vicious circle for them. :(


Hillary is not an Alpha Female. She may be Alpha - but she is not comfortable in her female skin. True Alpha Females like being Girls.

Good point. Part of the psychology of the "alpha female" is like that of a politician. Hillary is actually a good example of that. The unfortunate by-product of this kind of "alpha female" personality disorder is of course that they become repugnant to normal males and only attract "wimps" and "insecure chauvinist pigs." They take note of that and in turn start to care less about their appearance and channel their frustration of not getting satisfaction into a Freudian kind of oral phase in which they find temporaty solice in stuffing themselves with food. They then start packing on the pounds thus making them even less attractive to normal males. It is a vicious circle for them. :(

^ what a crock full-o-crap

It takes a Real Man / Alpha Male to handle an Alpha Female, hence, the supply of suitable mates is much smaller for us than it is for our Beta Female Sisters.


Boe is right ... many alpha males bore quickly with beta women and prefer the zest and dynamics of an alpha-alpha relationship ... although it can lead to spirited arguments :rolleyes:

Some men probably prefer having human doormats as a mate ... not me

Boe is right ... many alpha males bore quickly with beta women and prefer the zest and dynamics of an alpha-alpha relationship ... although it can lead to spirited arguments :rolleyes:

Some men probably prefer having human doormats as a mate ... not me


:nice:

Nothing is as good as the mind:mind, soul:soul, heart:heart, flesh:flesh, and bone:bone contact of equals.

Ego-satisfied emotionally healthy women have the capacity to put others first through love without seeing it as a battle that is won or lost. Women are biologically designed to do just that, primarily to raise children, but that same softness carries over to the man of their choice as well - it is the probably the best thing about real women.

It takes a far stronger woman to have the capacity to love enough to reap real joy out of the joy of her loved ones than to selfishly (and often hopelessly) spin her wheels to order to placate her own lack of self-esteem by becoming a fake man. Men who want dominating aggressive mates are generally seeking other men, not men in women's bodies.

Following the natural biological pattern is not only healthy, makes both partners happy, and creates a healthier and safer society at large, it's genetically programmed. Society can warp that version, but you end up with a dysfunctional society, such as the one that we have now.

Ego-satisfied emotionally healthy women have the capacity to put others first through love without seeing it as a battle that is won or lost. Women are biologically designed to do just that, primarily to raise children, but that same softness carries over to the man of their choice as well - it is the probably the best thing about real women.

It takes a far stronger woman to have the capacity to love enough to reap real joy out of the joy of her loved ones than to selfishly (and often hopelessly) spin her wheels to order to placate her own lack of self-esteem ....

Well said, Spab! :nice:

Alpha does not mean combative. It denotes the dominant member in a group (ie, a natural leader). Leadership doesn't have to be non-feminine.

Who's got it today?

:eek:

(Hmmm...I'm the only one who caught that one!?)

:rofl: :jk:

Ego-satisfied emotionally healthy women have the capacity to put others first through love without seeing it as a battle that is won or lost. Women are biologically designed to do just that, primarily to raise children, but that same softness carries over to the man of their choice as well - it is the probably the best thing about real women.

It takes a far stronger woman to have the capacity to love enough to reap real joy out of the joy of her loved ones than to selfishly (and often hopelessly) spin her wheels to order to placate her own lack of self-esteem by becoming a fake man. Men who want dominating aggressive mates are generally seeking other men, not men in women's bodies.

Following the natural biological pattern is not only healthy, makes both partners happy, and creates a healthier and safer society at large, it's genetically programmed. Society can warp that version, but you end up with a dysfunctional society, such as the one that we have now.

Excellent summary of the underlying psychology and biology of the issue. A lot of the brain's wiring is designed to select and respond to those of the opposite sex who make the most attractive person to reproduce with. Obviously a alpha female would not be appropriate for a normal man.

There is a pathology that indeed appreciates alpha female humans. I believe Guido might have mentioned this type of thing. That would be someone who enjoys dominatrixes, being an adult baby, that kind of overt perversion in which the male actually embraces physical humiliation and submission.

Neither of you Groks what a real Alpha Female is.

It is not about controlling anyone, nor is it about infantalizes partners. An AF is just a strong woman who is a female leader of the pack. She is not a woman trying to be The Man. In any grouping of humans, some are leaders and some are followers. It is perfectly natural and normal.

Maybe it's just me (or I just need more coffee), but I don't find that what you're saying and the part of Spab's post I quoted need be exclusive of each other.

They aren't - but Snouter is putting a spin on Spab's comments that makes them so.

There is a pathology that indeed appreciates alpha female humans. I believe Guido might have mentioned this type of thing. That would be someone who enjoys dominatrixes, being an adult baby, that kind of overt perversion in which the male actually embraces physical humiliation and submission.

:scratch:

Neither of you Groks what a real Alpha Female is.



You have a penchant for understatement :rolleyes:

there is nothing ... NOTHING ... in common between a woman who possesses the leadership, communication and socialization skills of an "alpha" with some weird pervo fetish that snouter speaks of

It takes a Real Man / Alpha Male to handle an Alpha Female, hence, the supply of suitable mates is much smaller for us than it is for our Beta Female Sisters.

Just sayin'.

Here's looking at you,kid.

In regards to how women consider the "90s Sensitive Male", what I consistently see is that while women, beta and alpha, will like these men, think they are often intelligent, nice, wonderful good guyz who treat them well, they still all of them want to sleep with Snouter or other Alpha Male types - even the Alpha women, maybe especially the Alpha women since they are probably sexually frustrated.

It's biological and unbeatable.

You can socialize women to like 'sensitive' girl-like men, but you can't socialize them to want to sleep with them. They are alwayz, 'good friends', 'like a brother to me' yada yada. Even when women marry these men because the 'equality' of living like equal roommates in a DINK (double-income no kidz) lifestyle, who sometimes ****, might seem appealing at one point or another on a logical financial basis, those same wome are out there bopping the Alpha gardener or something later.

The thing is, Alpha men don't want Alpha women - sensitive 90s men do. They like that double income. :nice: Alpha men don't mind providing for and protecting their mates but there wouldn't be much point in doing so for someone who doesn't need it, want it or appreciate it. Alpha men like women who understand gender differences. ;)

Alpha men like women who understand gender differences. ;)


Again, you are being clueless.

Real Alpha Women Like Being Women - and understand (and relish) the gender differences.

If an Alpha Male doesn't want an Equal, then one must question whether or not he really is an Alpha Male.

Just sayin'.

Again, you are being clueless.

Real Alpha Women Like Being Women - and understand (and relish) the gender differences.

If an Alpha Male doesn't want an Equal, then one must question whether or not he really is an Alpha Male.

Just sayin'.

If a face like Ingrid Bergman's looks at you as though you're adorable, everybody does. You don't have to act very much.

I love a good non sequitur.

I love a good non sequitur.

It doesn't take much to see that the problems of three little people doesn't add up to a hill of beans in this crazy world.

You can socialize women to like 'sensitive' girl-like men, but you can't socialize them to want to sleep with them. They are alwayz, 'good friends', 'like a brother to me' yada yada. Even when women marry these men because the 'equality' of living like equal roommates in a DINK (double-income no kidz) lifestyle, who sometimes ****, might seem appealing at one point or another on a logical financial basis, those same wome are out there bopping the Alpha gardener or something later.
It has already been pointed out that being an alpha female doesn't have to mean being a bitch, and it's equally true that being an alpha male doesn't have to mean being a prick. This "choice" between an alpha male and a "sensitive new age guy" is a false choice. I knew a guy once who used to be a former Marine drill instructor, and hadn't lost any of that toughness, who was also a bit of a SNAG in some ways. It seems like some women would rather sleep with the "bad boy" . . . but sex really isn't the only thing in life. That kind of attraction wears off. Women who want a durable relationship, especially with someone who can be an adequate co-parent, either learn to recognize the false choice for what it is or doom themselves to dissatisfaction.

Again, you are being clueless.

Real Alpha Women Like Being Women - and understand (and relish) the gender differences.

If an Alpha Male doesn't want an Equal, then one must question whether or not he really is an Alpha Male.

Just sayin'.

I disagree. Women are equal. They are half of whole and they are strong, wonderful people. But they aren't men. They don't need to compete with men in the realm of the male biological role. In fact, by doing so, they lose the best part of being women, imho.

Obviously women can bring home the bacon, fry it up in the pan, and never let him forget he's a man (gotta love that Enjoli woman!) if they have to, but who the hell would want to? Ego - proving you can? Be my guest, but I couldn't see myself wanting to financially provide for, take care of/clean the house of/cater to, and then get excited over a man that cared so little for me. Might as well be roommates and go bop the gardener. ;)

You are making the mistake of assuming defining an Alpha Female on financial terms.

It has already been pointed out that being an alpha female doesn't have to mean being a bitch, and it's equally true that being an alpha male doesn't have to mean being a prick. This "choice" between an alpha male and a "sensitive new age guy" is a false choice. I knew a guy once who used to be a former Marine drill instructor, and hadn't lost any of that toughness, who was also a bit of a SNAG in some ways. It seems like some women would rather sleep with the "bad boy" . . . but sex really isn't the only thing in life. That kind of attraction wears off. Women who want a durable relationship, especially with someone who can be an adequate co-parent, either learn to recognize the false choice for what it is or doom themselves to dissatisfaction.


Sex is the difference between being good friends and being in a marriage/relationship. If not, the couple would just be friends. Maybe when people marry without realizing that, that is what accounts for a 70% divorce rate in this country. It works until one of the people finds someone they want to share that intimacy with and dumps that partner they don't have a strong sexual interest in. ;)

Oh and Plat... for the record, I hardly think Alpha men are 'pricks'. I think the best thing about Alpha men is that capacity to really emotionally invest in an exclusive relationship and desire to care for, protect and love unconditionally the woman of his choice.

That's hardly a 'prick'.

Ego-satisfied emotionally healthy women have the capacity to put others first through love without seeing it as a battle that is won or lost. Women are biologically designed to do just that, primarily to raise children, but that same softness carries over to the man of their choice as well - it is the probably the best thing about real women.

It takes a far stronger woman to have the capacity to love enough to reap real joy out of the joy of her loved ones than to selfishly (and often hopelessly) spin her wheels to order to placate her own lack of self-esteem by becoming a fake man. Men who want dominating aggressive mates are generally seeking other men, not men in women's bodies.

Following the natural biological pattern is not only healthy, makes both partners happy, and creates a healthier and safer society at large, it's genetically programmed. Society can warp that version, but you end up with a dysfunctional society, such as the one that we have now.


You tell em, Spabby ! :nice:

I love to be nice to men because I love men . As long as they behave Alpha stays put . but if they stomp on beta ,alpha comes out . I enjoy being a passive sweet little beta , as long as it's not exspected of me .

Spabby wins this one hands down . Sex is 50% of the marriage . otherwise it's not marriage, it's boredom and frustration . I'd take a hot beta over cold alpha everytime . But alpha can be hot too of course .

:) :)

We have alwayz agreed here.

There is something wrong with a society that sayz that raising a family as a first priority is somehow wrong and valueless, that men only have value if they act 'like women', that women only have value if they act 'like men', that upward mobility is the goal of a marriage, and that sex has no value unless it's gay sex which is the epitome of "goodness" even if it's adulterous.

From the time human beings originated worldwide until the last decade or two even here in the U.S., society grew and improved itself by focusing on the family. Who knew the whole world had it wrong the whole time and only the recent generation has the 'truth', eh?

This politically correct stage will pass. It will have to. Otherwise our society is dooming itself.

And I didn't even bring up gerbilz. :p

Sex is the difference between being good friends and being in a marriage/relationship. If not, the couple would just be friends. Maybe when people marry without realizing that, that is what accounts for a 70% divorce rate in this country.
Well, you're free to think that, but I think it's actually your attitude that's more likely to account for the high divorce rate. Maybe if more people knew the difference between love and lust, or knew that stable relationships are about more than recreation between the sheets, we wouldn't have so many people who got divorced as soon as the novelty wore off. Who are you going to believe - the guy who's been happily married ten years and counting, or the local expert on vibrators who could never keep a relationship together half that long? I know a lot of people (especially in the generation before mine) who clearly love each other and have maintained a strong commitment to each other for many years despite little or no sexual activity. I once knew a couple where the man had been rendered incapable of having sex, and you can't tell me that they were just "good friends" as a result. No, they were married, not just in law but in spirit. Marriage is about commitment and about making another person as important in your life as you are. Sex is usually a part of that, but it's not an essential part. And yes, I can already predict the cheap shots that will come my way from the more insecure parts of the peanut gallery for saying so.
I think the best thing about Alpha men is that capacity to really emotionally invest in an exclusive relationship and desire to care for, protect and love unconditionally the woman of his choice.

That's hardly a 'prick'.
It's also nothing to do with being alpha. There are alphas who lack that capacity, and non-alphas who have it in abundance. What you've just described is something I can completely agree is good, but it's almost the opposite of the distinction you seemed to be making between "sensitive girl-like men" and "alpha gardeners" a few posts ago.

Of course if one of the marriage partners have a reason for not being able to have sex thats when the other part of love comes into 'play' [pun intended] . But if the other person is just being selfish and not trying then it's wrong .

There are other ways to satisfy each other without being sinful . I would never get mad at pappy if he couldn't help it , but if he holds back for any other reason than I would . I would never leave him if he were impotent .

All marriage has times when one or the other isn't in the mood, but this passes .

And I didn't even bring up gerbilz. :p

LOL, Sometimes people just don't know when to quit, do they ? Theres a limit to everything . I'l never see a gerbal in the same light again ! :eek3:

plat, no point in arguing on this one because the opinionz of the vocal gay and bi guy minority is not going to sway my opinion about what women 'should' like in men, what is clear to me that men like in women and certainly not about something as subjective to me as whether sex is an important feature of marriage or long term relationships.

I don't have trouble getting men. I don't have trouble keeping men. :p

plat, no point in arguing on this one because the opinionz of the vocal gay and bi guy minority is not going to sway my opinion about what women 'should' like in men
I'm not trying to tell anyone what they "should" want, and I don't know where you even get the "gay and bi guy minority" bit from. You made a non-gender-specific statement about "sex is the difference" and I disagreed. I have also tried to explain that selecting partners a certain way is likely to result in disappointment, though of course people are still free to do it. If you look back at the title of the thread, you'll see that that's the topic so don't get on my case for addressing it.
I don't have trouble getting men. I don't have trouble keeping men. :p
Congratulations. I once had a friend who said, "It's easy to quit smoking. I've done it five times this year."

I have two words for this thread:

Penis Envy.

I have two words for this thread:

Penis Envy.


I wouldn't call it Envy - it's more like Coveting.

Just sayin'.

I wouldn't call it Envy - it's more like Coveting.

Just sayin'.

You sultry vixen you!:hiya:

I'm not trying to tell anyone what they "should" want, and I don't know where you even get the "gay and bi guy minority" bit from. You made a non-gender-specific statement about "sex is the difference" and I disagreed. I have also tried to explain that selecting partners a certain way is likely to result in disappointment, though of course people are still free to do it. If you look back at the title of the thread, you'll see that that's the topic so don't get on my case for addressing it.

Congratulations. I once had a friend who said, "It's easy to quit smoking. I've done it five times this year."


Plat, you are certainly welcome to enjoy a being in a marriage where sex is a low priority or nonexistent. I don't think anyone is trying to take that away from you. I still don't think you speak for the majority.

And I don't think anyone suggested selecting a partner solely for sex, so that is what Fade would call a 'strawman'.

As to my life... dude, you are welcome to believe what you like, even to make efforts to convince others to believe what you would like to portray about me. It's been tried before on this board and remains ongoing. However, it won't change anything about my life or the lives of whoever's ego needs to think the opposite. That's the bottom line on that one. :p

Plat, you are certainly welcome to enjoy a being in a marriage where sex is a low priority or nonexistent. I don't think anyone is trying to take that away from you. I still don't think you speak for the majority.
Yeah, I knew that cheap shot was coming; some people never fail to disappoint. If you read my earlier message, you'll see that I didn't say my marriage was like that, only that I knew others who fit that description.
And I don't think anyone suggested selecting a partner solely for sex, so that is what Fade would call a 'strawman'.
Indeed it is, since I never claimed that anyone suggested that.
As to my life... dude, you are welcome to believe what you like, even to make efforts to convince others to believe what you would like to portray about me. It's been tried before on this board and remains ongoing. However, it won't change anything about my life or the lives of whoever's ego needs to think the opposite. That's the bottom line on that one. :p
Methinks someone doth protest too much. What assumptions do you think I was making about your life? Are you sure I wasn't talking about someone else? Read carefully before you answer.

Whatever plat... it isn't going to make a difference in anyone's life. That's my point.

I disagree with Feenix that it's a case of penis envy with more competitive women. I don't think it is. I think there are plenty of competitive women who seek, marry and are happy with beta males. In the cases where Alpha women seek Alpha men who are not attracted to them, I think it's probably something along the lines of cognitive dissonance most of the time. I think they haven't truly considered what would make them happy, and that the result of some soul-seeking and personal honesty could help them be in a place where they start seeking the type of person who would make them happy whether it's by changing themselves or resetting their goalz.

None of that is criticism.

There are no such things as "alpha male females." That's simply how extremely bitchy and high maintenence women like to define themselves. They're the type of woman that no man, except cuckolds, will tolerate.

Up yours, Ponycar_302.