MEXICO CITY - The Mexican government, angered by a U.S. proposal to extend a wall along the border to keep out migrants, pledged Tuesday to block the plan and organize an international campaign against it.

Facing a growing tide of anti-immigrant sentiment north of the border, the government has taken out ads urging Mexican workers to denounce rights violations in the United States. It also is hiring an American public relations firm to improve its image and counter growing U.S. concerns about immigration.

Mexican President
Vicente Fox denounced the U.S. measures, passed by the House of Representatives Friday, as "shameful." His foreign secretary, Luis Ernesto Derbez, echoed his complaints on Tuesday.

"Mexico is not going to bear, it is not going to permit, and it will not allow a stupid thing like this wall," Derbez said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051221/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/mexico_border_wall

As they should. The jingos in Congress are trying to treat the Mexicans the same way that they treated the Irish, Italians, Poles, Chinese, Japanese, Eastern Europeans, Southern Europeans, and every other "etnic" group that has ever come to this country.

The Know Nothings have returned.

There is still a definite anti-Catholic bias in this country. And the fact is that, at least nominally, the Mexicans are Roman Catholics overwhelmingly.

That doesn't mean that the laws of our nation shouldn't be enforced.

These new "ideas" coming out of the nationalist right are about as salient as the new "ideas" that come in defense of gun control. We need to simply enforce the laws that we already have on the books in other words. New gun control laws are as ineffective as any new immigration laws will be.

It is already illegal to hire an illegal. It is already illegal for people to enter this country in this manner.

That said, though, doesn't negate the fact that immigration is America's saving grace and always has been. The best and brightest as well as the most ambitious tend to make these kinds of trips.

A wall is a stupid idea. And I will go out a limb and agree with Jimmy. If they just enforced the laws we already have and allow enforement on a local level, then we wouldn't have an issue. A minor problem maybe, but not all ecompassing catastrophe we have now.

So I wonder what the economic fallout from this will be...Everyone for years assumed nothing would change the relationship between our 2 countries.

I have some doubts about the whole wall idea but they have no right to stop us from building one.

If we want to build a wall on our land and say no one can cross it it's our right as a sovereign nation.

They have a vested interst on an open border-it's going to trigger some hella social change if they don't find a workaround...

And I see your true colors shining through....Mexico. If the wall goes up, how can the reconquista persist?

"If you even want to build a wall between Mexico and the United States, you would have to hire undocumented immigrants to build it." - Jorge Ramos, anchor of Noticias Univision.

The only way they could stop a wall that is going up is by using force. If we build the wall on our land, that would probably be considered a military invasion. I don't think Mexico has the balls to try it and even if they did, I am sure The First Calvary Divison and the 4th Infantry Division could take them.

I am sure The First Calvary Divison and the 4th Infantry Division could take them.

Aren't they in Iraq?

Anyway, I'm glad to see the GOP pissing on immigrants as their new hot button issue. Hispanics tend to be very conservative voters. I'd like to see Tejas fall to the Democrats this year. Pissing off a huge minority of voters just might do the trick.

Hopefully after the wall is built.

Aren't they in Iraq?

Anyway, I'm glad to see the GOP pissing on immigrants as their new hot button issue. Hispanics tend to be very conservative voters. I'd like to see Tejas fall to the Democrats this year. Pissing off a huge minority of voters just might do the trick.? what crack are you smokin? illegals are conservatives? ohh...wait...i see... you're one of those people who doesn't understand the difference between a wetback and someone who's hispanic.

? what crack are you smokin? illegals are conservatives? ohh...wait...i see... you're one of those people who doesn't understand the difference between a wetback and someone who's hispanic.

Beat that strawman down, jwreck. He doesn't stand a chance against you!

Like it or not, the illeagl immigration problem has become a huge political issue on BOTH sides. Americans are tired of footing the bills for those who sneak in.

A great deal of noise is being made, and sooner or later, the politicians will grab the issue and run with it. Politicians follow much more often than they lead.

Mexico is mad because any wall, or real border security would force them to make necessary internal changes that should have been done decades ago.

They're not a poor country from the prospect of resources. Their biggest problem has always been political corruption. If they were ever forced to restructure their government and society, lots of people on the top would lose power and influenece, and those on the bottom may actually have a fighting chance of building the type of lives they desire.

Don't be fooled by their talk either. The Mexicans guard their Southern border zealously. and deport illegals daily. Those who overatsy their visas are given less than 30 days to leave unde the threat of immediate imprisonment, and no one wants to find themselves in a Mexican jail. They don't want illegals any more than America does, but once again, the double standard is showing.

They DO however, want as many of their citizens as possible to earn US dollars and send most of them home. They have developed an economy which is absolutely dependent on this cash flow. They're not all that concerned about a few people dying in the process of sneaking over, as long as enough get through, get some type of work, and send the money home.

I support landmines and razor wire.

A great deal of noise is being made, and sooner or later, the politicians will grab the issue and run with it. Politicians follow much more often than they lead.


GOP strategists were saying over a year ago that illegal immigration was going to be their new hot button issue. They've been talking it up since then. Illegal immigration is the new gay marriage, which was the new Iraqi WMDs.

And I see your true colors shining through....Mexico. If the wall goes up, how can the reconquista persist?

Oh,:rolleyes:like I'd do well under the reconquista..

Like it or not, the illeagl immigration problem has become a huge political issue on BOTH sides. Americans are tired of footing the bills for those who sneak in.

A great deal of noise is being made, and sooner or later, the politicians will grab the issue and run with it. Politicians follow much more often than they lead.

Mexico is mad because any wall, or real border security would force them to make necessary internal changes that should have been done decades ago.

They're not a poor country from the prospect of resources. Their biggest problem has always been political corruption. If they were ever forced to restructure their government and society, lots of people on the top would lose power and influenece, and those on the bottom may actually have a fighting chance of building the type of lives they desire.

Don't be fooled by their talk either. The Mexicans guard their Southern border zealously. and deport illegals daily. Those who overatsy their visas are given less than 30 days to leave unde the threat of immediate imprisonment, and no one wants to find themselves in a Mexican jail. They don't want illegals any more than America does, but once again, the double standard is showing.

They DO however, want as many of their citizens as possible to earn US dollars and send most of them home. They have developed an economy which is absolutely dependent on this cash flow. They're not all that concerned about a few people dying in the process of sneaking over, as long as enough get through, get some type of work, and send the money home.

Pretty good appraisal-Mexico doesnt have the resources to correct what needs correcting though-we should work together on a solution instead of unilaterally putting the kibosh like this...

Why do Americans object to paying higher than slave wages and then don't get it when no one is happy with that? If all those American (and European) companies employing Mexicans would pay higher than poverty wages Mexicans wouldn't need to leave their country.

Don't believe they pay bad wages? Go to the border and look at all the factories like Ford and General Electric, Samsung on the Mexican side and the shanty town neighborhoods built up around them. Why are all these multinationals there and many people still don't have water and electricity?

The only real answer is to improve the education system of poorer countries so they can make their own prosperity, however no one is interested in that answer.

I'd build it just to spite them and the very second those scumbags punch a hole in it I'd mine the other side.

I'm glad to see that in my two week hiatus from DA nothing has really changed. It's somehow comforting and disturbing at the same time.

Building walls has never really done much to protect national borders. The Mongols still invaded China, for instance. You can also point to Rome and the Soviets (aka East Germany and the Berlin Wall) as other historical examples.

I'm glad to see that in my two week hiatus from DA nothing has really changed. It's somehow comforting and disturbing at the same time.

Building walls has never really done much to protect national borders. The Mongols still invaded China, for instance. You can also point to Rome and the Soviets (aka East Germany and the Berlin Wall) as other historical examples.

How many people successfully and secretly penetrated the Berlin Wall? I don't know, but I will confidently say it was not more than a handful. We have thousands of illegals crossing our southern border every day.

It might not do much against an army but it'd be a considerable hassle for a poor man on foot...

Building walls has never really done much to protect national borders. The Mongols still invaded China, for instance.

Excellent. Can anyone here find one example of giant wall constructions that were successful at keeping "others" out? Hadrian's wall in Europe? No. The French Maginot line to keep the German army out? Nope. China? No. Israeli wall? Not really.

Just one example - links are required.

Excellent. Can anyone here find one example of giant wall constructions that were successful at keeping "others" out? Hadrian's wall in Europe? No. The French Maginot line to keep the German army out? Nope. China? No. Israeli wall? Not really.

Just one example - links are required.

Depends on y our definition of "success" I suppose.

If success has to equal 100% efficiency well then your expectations are too high.

...but if this wall keeps out even 50% I would still say that it is successful.
Hell.. all it would take would be a standard prison issue security fence to keep 80% of them out.

The wall in Warsaw helped keep "the bad people" out. So did the one in Berlin.

Iron curtains, spreading our ideology by military conquest, secretive, single party government, the party has it's own "news". We don't need a cold war. We are a cold war.

If success has to equal 100% efficiency well then your expectations are too high.

...but if this wall keeps out even 50% I would still say that it is successful.

Firstly, I live on the Us Mexico border and know the arguments from both sides. Yes, the poverty and social conditions in Mexico are very bad, much worse than you think they are if you've never been there.

The government of Mexico makes almost no attempt at all at social reforms. To this day, the 21st century, they STILL have no civil service protection laws to protect people that expose official crimes. Hence, officials do whatever they want to and get away with it. The leaders there absolutely refuse to make any meaningful reforms because it means losing their iron grip on the economy and everything else.

There is one good thing that comes out of this public debate and that's that the Mexican government knows it can't depend on sending the poor to America indefinately. They have got to get this through their heads, because they really do sincererly, yes sincerely, believe the answer to all their problems in sending the poor to the United States. There's almost no other social program in Mexico besides that one and their government is just absolutely obsessed with getting more people to go legally/illegally/whatever doesn't matter which.

Beat that strawman down, jwreck. He doesn't stand a chance against you!
strawman my ass. sorry if you don,t uderstand that illegal imigration and hispanics are not synonamous (sp?).

I'm glad to see that in my two week hiatus from DA nothing has really changed. It's somehow comforting and disturbing at the same time.

Building walls has never really done much to protect national borders. The Mongols still invaded China, for instance. You can also point to Rome and the Soviets (aka East Germany and the Berlin Wall) as other historical examples.

The Berlin wall was never designed to keep anyone out. It was to keep people in.

Israeli wall? Not really.

The security fence is actually very effective in keeping out terrorists. AFAIK, no one's ever breached it.

And it makes no sense to compare walls that were to help one army keep out another to the one being proposed

Terrorists aren't really an army, but I suppose it's moot to compare a demograph seeking employment with homicidal infiltrators. :shrug:

The real crux is Israel's 180 mile Green Line vs. our 1500 mile border with Mexico, however.

And it makes no sense to compare walls that were to help one army keep out another to the one being proposed

What's the difference?

Combatants vs. non-combatants.

Combatants vs. non-combatants.

What?

Excellent. Can anyone here find one example of giant wall constructions that were successful at keeping "others" out? Hadrian's wall in Europe? No. The French Maginot line to keep the German army out? Nope. China? No. Israeli wall? Not really.

Just one example - links are required.


Hadrians wall was intended to keep to separate the Celts and the Romans.

the Berlin Wall was designed to keep people in.

The maginot line wasn't for this kind of purpose.

It seems that the Chinese Wall, Hadrians, and the Berlin Wall all accomplished their purposes.

you can just claim that they didn't but you would be wrong.

I have been to all of these walls.

strawman my ass. sorry if you don,t uderstand that illegal imigration and hispanics are not synonamous (sp?).

I never said they were. You're fighting a strawman. Not that this is surprising.

I never said they were. You're fighting a strawman. Not that this is surprising.wtf are u talking about?

Aren't they in Iraq?

Anyway, I'm glad to see the GOP pissing on immigrants as their new hot button issue. Hispanics tend to be very conservative voters. I'd like to see Tejas fall to the Democrats this year. Pissing off a huge minority of voters just might do the trick.

Slow, as always, but, eventually, even Republicans can see the obvious.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,238159,00.html

Mel Martinez Aims to Turn Around Republican Party

Friday, December 22, 2006

WASHINGTON — Immigration policy and party message are at the top of a list of issues Republicans are reviewing as they try to woo back the rapidly growing Latino population following a November midterm election that saw Hispanic support for the GOP drop by nearly a third.

The Republican share of the Latino vote fell from 44 percent in 2004 to 30 percent this year, according to FOX News exit polling data. With the Hispanic vote making up 8 percent of the electorate in 2006 compared to 5 percent in 1996, the largest and fastest growing ethnic minority in America will be essential to winning elections down the road, say Republicans looking to recover from this year's losses.

"We can do better, we need to do better," said Danny Diaz, a spokesman for the Republican National Committee.

Slow, as always, but, eventually, even Republicans can see the obvious.
No they don't. Not the politicians anyway. The politicians pander to the Mexicans and lose more of their base by doing so.