This year's indcutees to the Rock and Roll hall of Fame are:

Performers:

Black Sabbath

Blondie

Miles Davis

Lynyrd Skynyrd

The Sex Pistols

Non-Performers :

Herb Alpert and Jerry Moss [founders of A+M Records]

Inductees to the Sideman catgory [sesssion musicans] will be announced later.

Don't know how the repeats came up [my server's all f-ked up].

Yay Blondie!

Herb Alpert's a "non-performer?" :confused:

Herb Alpert's a "non-performer?" :confused:

Isn't that a shame?

I bought Whipped Cream & Other Delights a couple of months ago - fabulous. Herb would have added some real class to the show.

Thoughts:

There are genrally two kinds of popular music fans:Mainstreamers and the Intelligentsia,this year the HoF went predomiantly mainstream [as I predicted ],but to me it's the weakest lineup yet [though I will add that all the indcutees do have some merit.

Blondie:They were good,I have no problem withtheir induction as such.

However,I'd much prefer to see the [never nominated] Link Wray ,Leon Russell ,Joe Cocker,Rare Earth,Albert King,Billy Lee Riley and the once nominated,never inducted Wanda Jackson get in first [for starters].

Black Sabbath: I don't like metal because I have an IQ above 0.02 and like musicanship ,however there are exceptions to every rule and Sabbath is one.

Sabbath should be in for historical reasons that trump anyone's personal taste.

Miles Davis :This is the bone the intelligentsia is thrown this year.

This indcution is too long overdue,Miles advanced music every bit as much as The Beatles,Bob Dylan,Ray Charles,Jimi Hendrix or Frank Zappa did.

Lynryd Skynyrd:This is one the manistreamers and I really differ on.

They were good,they were listenable.

But were they are on the highest artistic level?

Not in my view.

They were overplayed AOR,average songwriting and while they have some merit,in my view they join Queen as the two most marginal memebrs of the HoF [I generally don't care for Queen's songwriting either].

The Sex Pistols:Not the highest artistic level either,but they did have an imapct simular to that of Elvis Presley and The Beatles and they derserve induction for that reason alone.

Herb Alpert's a "non-performer?" :confused:

He's indcuted for what he did with A+M Records,not for what he did as a performer.

Blondie:They were good,I have no problem withtheir induction as such.

However,I'd much prefer to see the [never nominated] Link Wray ,Leon Russell ,Joe Cocker,Rare Earth,Albert King,Billy Lee Riley and the once nominated,never inducted Wanda Jackson get in first [for starters].

I agree 100%. Especially about Albert King...Blues legends like him, Freddy King, Albert Collins, Johnny "Guitar" Watson, Taj Mahal and Hound Dog Taylor should have been inducted a LONG TIME AGO!!

Black Sabbath: I don't like metal because I have an IQ above 0.02 and like musicanship ,however there are exceptions to every rule and Sabbath is one.

Sabbath should be in for historical reasons that trump anyone's personal taste.

I agree. Early metal bands were often good and great, but since the late 1970's, heavy metal is going down in terms of creativity, musicianship and everything that makes music great...1980's metal generally sucked (besides Guns&Roses, Van Halen, Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, Metalica, and a few more bands, and even a few songs by some bands that generally sucked) but at least some of them actually knew how to play instruments well. New metal nothing but total sh!t, where they can no longer write, sing, nor play AT ALL.

Miles Davis :This is the bone the intelligentsia is thrown this year.

This indcution is too long overdue,Miles advanced music every bit as much as The Beatles,Bob Dylan,Ray Charles,Jimi Hendrix or Frank Zappa did.

I agree.

Lynryd Skynyrd:This is one the manistreamers and I really differ on.

They were good,they were listenable.

But were they are on the highest artistic level?

Yes, and it's not even about me being a huge fan.

They proved to be very influential on different people, they wrote songs that are considered to be classics (hell, the solo in "Freebird" alone is enough reason to induct them), songs that are still very popular and still remembered very well even after 30 years. They could also cover J.J. Cale, B.B. King, and Cream very well, not to mention that they were outstanding musicians and instrumentalists.

And one really can't go wrong with Blues-inspired Rock music anyways...and they played country/blues/r&b inspired rock'n'roll music while at the time most bands were playing commercial, overproduced, synthisizer crap.

Also, "highest artistic level" is irrelevant unless you consider other people who are inducted. Sure you can say that they are nothing compared to The Beatles, Ray Charles, Jimi Hendrix, Elvis Presley...

However, how about people like: Dion, The Four Seasons, The Bee Gees, Michael Jackson (or even Jackson 5), Fleetwood Mac (the later soft-rock stuff, not the great early Blues-Rock with the original band), Earth, Wind & Fire, The Moonglows, The Flamingos, Steely Dan, Gene Pitney, Talking Heads, Brenda Lee, The Police, Righteous Brothers, Jackson Browne, Prince, The Pretenders?

All of them are AT LEAST ok, and some of them are actually great or nearly-great, however, are they REALLY better than Lynyrd Skynyrd in terms of music, musicianship, performances, recordings, influence?

I'm not so sure. If all of them are in, I think that Lynyrd Skynyrd definately deserve it too.

They were good,they were listenable.

Most people in the South would definately say you underrate them.

They were overplayed AOR,average songwriting and while they have some merit,

You are talking about Styx, Journey, Supertramp and REO here. Lynyrd Skynyrd are NOT AOR, and their songwriting was often excellent.

in my view they join Queen as the two most marginal memebrs of the HoF [I generally don't care for Queen's songwriting either].


Disagree...Michael Jackson, The Pretenders, Talking Heads and The Four Seasons are the ones in my opinion, although all of them are decent/ok, and have at least some good/great songs.

Queen weren't usually THAT great of songwriters, but they were AMAZING musicians, I'd say that they deserve their induction, although there are much greater people that are still out, I'm not argueing about that.

The Sex Pistols:Not the highest artistic level either,but they did have an imapct simular to that of Elvis Presley and The Beatles and they derserve induction for that reason alone.

Agree.

Herb Alpert's a "non-performer?" :confused:

Exactly! What's up with that?

On a side note, ever been to the Hall of Fame? (Drew Carey was right, you know, Cleveland rocks.)

The first time I went, I was in that little room at the top of the stairs and I saw Eric Clapton's name there in that luminescent ink.....cried like a baby. Had to go sit down. Yes, I am a giant mush-head.

...(Drew Carey was right, you know, Cleveland rocks.)...


Actually, I believe you can thank Ian Hunter for that! :p ;)

Actually, I believe you can thank Ian Hunter for that! :p ;)


All righty then, Ian, thank you because Cleveland does, indeed rock. And I'm a little peeved that the induction ceremony is held in New York. Y'know, NYC passed on the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. They said no thanks. Cleveland had to jump up and raise their hand and say, please, please, please. And now, NYC gets the induction ceremony? How does that work?

Cleveland so does NOT rock. :mad:

Cleveland so does NOT rock. :mad:

Oh, but you are so wrong, sweetie. Cleveland does, in fact, rock, and I could probably prove it to you, but then I'd need charts and graphs and an easle.

Oh, but you are so wrong, sweetie. Cleveland does, in fact, rock, and I could probably prove it to you, but then I'd need charts and graphs and an easle.

For what!? :eek3: On second thought, don't answer that!

If I were to prove something like that to CowPunk, all I'd need is to be in the same room with him! :p :D

(In Cleveland, of course, since that's what I'd have to prove, correct?)

When will they induct CowPunk??:confused:

Now that is something I'd want to see!!!!! :nice: :cool:

For what!? :eek3: On second thought, don't answer that!

If I were to prove something like that to CowPunk, all I'd need is to be in the same room with him! :p :D

(In Cleveland, of course, since that's what I'd have to prove, correct?)

Wow! You're a perv! I knew there was something about you that I liked.:nice:

Yes, and it's not even about me being a huge fan.

They proved to be very influential on different people,


1.Not much of anybody I care about.

2.Their music still does not move me.


they wrote songs that are considered to be classics


Maybe to you.


(hell, the solo in "Freebird" alone is enough reason to induct them),


Doesn't come close to anything Eric Clapton,Duane Allman or Link Wray did.


And one really can't go wrong with Blues-inspired Rock music anyways...and they played country/blues/r&b inspired rock'n'roll music while at the time most bands were playing commercial, overproduced, synthisizer crap.


They weren't the main listening of myself or anyone I knew in the day.




Dion,


Artistry of the highest sort.


The Four Seasons,


Strong vocals ,songwriting and prodcution.


The Bee Gees,


I'll take their classcial orented period above Skynyrd.



Michael Jackson (or even Jackson 5),


J5 had amongst the best producers and songwriters Mowtown had and I'll take Motown above Skynyrd any day.


Fleetwood Mac (the later soft-rock stuff, not the great early Blues-Rock with the original band),


I think they excelled in all their phases.


Earth, Wind & Fire,


Before disco they were pretty damn great.


The Moonglows,


I'll take the lesser doo wop record over the best Skynyrd cut anyday.


The Flamingos,


See above.

Doo Wop is a major style,arena rock is not.


Steely Dan,

Songwriting and musicanship of the highest quality


Gene Pitney,


Stunning songs and vocals that I was raised on.


Talking Heads, Brenda Lee, The Police, Righteous Brothers, Jackson Browne, Prince, The Pretenders?


To save time I'll say they all are of the highest calliber as far as I'm concerned.



are they REALLY better than Lynyrd Skynyrd in terms of music, musicianship, performances, recordings, influence?


IMHO YES,because they all made music that I can relate to and that does move me.


If you can't relate the same way I can that is fine,it does not mean that what I say is wrong.





Most people in the South would definately say you underrate them.



You are the second person to say that to me.


And I'll say that many people in my age range would say you underrate the acts you brought up,most people from where I come from in the midwest would say you underrate The Prenteders and Prince,that maybe you have to be from the midwest to really understand their songs.

Well,I don't come from the South [though I have family there,descend from there and the majority of my favorites in vitually all the arts come from the South ]I can't be what I'm not.

Maybe not coming from the South is why I don't relate to thier music [though I must add that I didn't see people down South go crazy over them back in the day either].

I like what Doug Sheppard [who has trashed many of my faves by the way] wrote about Lynyrd Skynyrd:"They're the untouchables of rock:The radio loves 'em,critics love 'em and supposedly everybody loves them.Not me-the more I hear songs like 'Sweet Home Alabama' and 'You Got That Right',the more I'm inclined to stick to Civil War landmarks when attempting to discover the South,which these guys supposedly epitomize".


You are talking about Styx, Journey, Supertramp and REO here. Lynyrd Skynyrd are NOT AOR, and their songwriting was often excellent.


I will grant you that Skynyrd was way,way above swill like Styx et al.,but they were every bit as overplayed on AOR as the others were and I will admit I respect Skynyrd's music more than I like it, I don't repsect the overprodcued swill that Styx,Journey,Supertramp and REO put out,but Skynyrd's music still does not move me.

If somebody gave me a ticket I'd go and see what's left of them,but what I said stil stands.




Disagree...Michael Jackson, The Pretenders, Talking Heads and The Four Seasons are the ones in my opinion,


And I can't realte tot that opinon,to do so would be for me to live a lie.


although all of them are decent/ok, and have at least some good/great songs.


Pretty much what I think about Skynyrd.


Queen weren't usually THAT great of songwriters, but they were AMAZING musicians, I'd say that they deserve their induction, although there are much greater people that are still out, I'm not argueing about that.

I like what Doug Sheppard wrote about Queen:"Does anyone out there really think these guys were all -but laughed off the stage by anyone but teenyboppers and Top 40 junkies during their late 70's heyday?

Talk about rewriting history,the protrayal of Queen as something more significant than hitmakers only took hold after Freddie Mercury died",not only do I agree with that,but I would argue nobody thought all that much about Skynyrd until their plane crash.

I was around then [even in the South during some of that time] and that's the way I remember it.

1.Not much of anybody I care about.

2.Their music still does not move me.

I'm not talking about personal opinions. I'm talking about facts. They inspired styles from Southern-Rock to New Coutnry to Jam Bands to Metal to Alternative Rock...I don't like all of it either, but it still doesn't take away from their contributions to Rock'n'Roll, which is why they are inducted.

Maybe to you.

To A LOT of people. They got at least 10-20 songs that are popular now more than ever, and it was over 30 years ago. I'd say they pass the test of time.

Doesn't come close to anything Eric Clapton,Duane Allman or Link Wray did.

To their best work? No, but a lot of what Clapton did in the 1980's didn't have great guitar work anyways. Of course Clapton is a MUCH better guitarist, and I'm the first one to say it, and even Duane Allman, but that still doesn't change the fact that Alan Collins and Steve Gaines were some of the greatest rock guitarists, and better than probably any metal guitarist, besides Jimmy Page. Link Wray? First of all, he wasn't about "great solos" the first place, his guitar playing is much greater in other ways, so it's kind of like comparing them to Bo Diddley. It's just different styles.

I'd say that the solo from "Freebird" is as influntial on musicians. Can you even imagine how many young people pick up the guitar because of that solo, and how many musicians were influenced by Lynyrd Skynyrd's musicianship?


Dion,



Artistry of the highest sort.

Not his early stuff, that's for sure, maybe his later music.

Quote:
The Four Seasons,



Strong vocals ,songwriting and prodcution.

I never liked their style of singing too much, it's not my kind of production, and most of the songs are nothing but oldies that would even sound out of date to my grandparents.

Did they even pass the test of time? Can you say the same about Skynyrd?

I'll take their classcial orented period above Skynyrd.


Their 1960's music was great, later on it became mediocre.

Michael Jackson (or even Jackson 5),



J5 had amongst the best producers and songwriters Mowtown had and I'll take Motown above Skynyrd any day.

Ever heard of Al Kooper?

Also, I'd say that the fact that the guys from Lynyrd Skynyrd wrote their own songs and played all the instruments all the time says a lot.

Where would J5 be without Barry Gordy? And what about Jackson's solo career, which you can't take over Skynyrd unless you're 7 years old or something.

I think they excelled in all their phases.

Without Peter Green they weren't nearly as great. They were still very good, but c'mon, it was too much of overproduced soft-rock, nor could the new people play anywhere as great either.

Before disco they were pretty damn great.

Agree, and so are Skynyrd:)

I'll take the lesser doo wop record over the best Skynyrd cut anyday.

:not: What do you think was the best Skynyrd song(s) anyways?

See above.

Doo Wop is a major style,arena rock is not.

Lynyrd Skynyrd are NOT arena rock. SOUTHERN ROCK, unless you just chose to call it country/blues inspired rock.

Also, I'm not saying they were better than The Drifters or The Coasters, but they were better and more influential than most. Hey, at least they played instruments and wrote their own music that lasted for MANY MANY years and still going.

Songwriting and musicanship of the highest quality

They are GREAT musicians, occasionally great songwriters, BAD singing though, and sometimes the music is just borring. Skynyrd are anything but borring.

Stunning songs and vocals that I was raised on.

He is good, but I wouldn't rank him over Cat Steven's 1960's stuff.

save time I'll say they all are of the highest calliber as far as I'm concerned.

Talking Heads,

NO WAY, would you even compare them in terms of musicianship to anybody from Skynyrd? Also Van Zant was a much better singer than David Byrne. The songwriting part is too objective and we will never agree on that.

Brenda Lee

Maybe, but she was still a teen idol, and now a lot of it sounds kind of old. She is an important artist in Rock'n'Roll though, and I do like her music.

The Police

A lot of it is overrated, they don't move me like Skynyrd and they aren't as good of musicians, not anywhere close.

Righteous Brothers,

Some of my least favorite old R&B, still very good though.

Jackson Browne,

I mostly agree, but then again, if his ex-guitarist tells me that he thinks I'm a better musician than Browne is...and I while will NEVER EVER agree on THAT ONE no matter who tells me this...I suspect that Skynyrd might be greater.

Prince

GREAT guitarist, at least technically. Don't care for his singing most of the time, and a lot of his songs. Wayy overrated.

The Pretenders

Mediocre band at best, and I believe that them and Journey are the worst bands to be played on classic rock radio.

IMHO YES,because they all made music that I can relate to and that does move me.


If you can't relate the same way I can that is fine,it does not mean that what I say is wrong.


And I'm not wrong either. We just have different opinions.:)

And I'll say that many people in my age range would say you underrate the acts you brought up,most people from where I come from in the midwest would say you underrate The Prenteders and Prince,that maybe you have to be from the midwest to really understand their songs.

Their music is too overproduced, not bluesy enough, and while Prince can play, the pretenders are mediocre musicians and can't sing too great, and it's too "1980's" for me. I like REAL Rock'n'Roll, that's why I listen to people like Chuck Berry, Allman Brothers, Cream and The Rolling Stones more than to any of the people above, however, Lynyrd Skynyrds still has more in common with them, than prince or pretenders.

I like what Doug Sheppard [who has trashed many of my faves by the way] wrote about Lynyrd Skynyrd:"They're the untouchables of rock:The radio loves 'em,critics love 'em and supposedly everybody loves them.Not me-the more I hear songs like 'Sweet Home Alabama' and 'You Got That Right',the more I'm inclined to stick to Civil War landmarks when attempting to discover the South,which these guys supposedly epitomize".

What's wrong with those songs?

Would you still have the same opinoin about Skynyrd if it wasn't for the flag/culture? Can you really be honest about it?

I know I'd understand it if the answer is yes, since I probably wouldn't like them as much if they were neo-nazis or something.

I will grant you that Skynyrd was way,way above swill like Styx et al.,but they were every bit as overplayed on AOR as the others were and I will admit I respect Skynyrd's music more than I like it, I don't repsect the overprodcued swill that Styx,Journey,Supertramp and REO put out,but Skynyrd's music still does not move me.

If somebody gave me a ticket I'd go and see what's left of them,but what I said stil stands.


You might change your mind if you saw them live and if you stopped looking at their culture and their fans so much.

And I can't realte tot that opinon,to do so would be for me to live a lie.

That's fine.

I like what Doug Sheppard wrote about Queen:"Does anyone out there really think these guys were all -but laughed off the stage by anyone but teenyboppers and Top 40 junkies during their late 70's heyday?

Talk about rewriting history,the protrayal of Queen as something more significant than hitmakers only took hold after Freddie Mercury died",not only do I agree with that,but I would argue nobody thought all that much about Skynyrd until their plane crash.

I was around then [even in the South during some of that time] and that's the way I remember it.

I wasn around when most Skynyrd guys were, but I was around when Queen were still there, and I can tell you for a fact that they were ALWAYS very popular in Europe, Soviet Union and even Israel. I'll admit that I didn't even know much about Lynyrd Skynyrd until I moved here, they are mostly unknown outside of America, but Queen is a DIFFERENT story.

And by the way, say what you want about Queen's songwriting (yes, often it wasn't that great), but Freddy Mercury was one of the best rock singers, and they were AMAZING musicians.

GF,

I don't have time to go into all these points [remember the holliday season is the busiest time of the year where I work and I'm also geeting ready to move at this time on top of that].

Besides ,I don't have to respond anyway ,because we've gone into all these points before,you have your world view,I have mine.

As I've said before the Confederate Flag hs nothing to do with how/why I don't relate to Skynyrd's music [as I said before the Altanta Rhyhtm Section flew the Confederate Flag back in the day and I love the best of their music, and I admire lots of artists -in music and in other arts- who I don't agree with on lots of things-William Faulkner for one- etc.,etc.].

As I've said before I can/do seperate the art from the artist.

The music of Queen and Lynyrd Skynyrd just does not move me but they do move you,it doesn't make me a bad guy and your differing views from mine does not make you a bad guy either.