IN RECENT YEARS, I have become increasingly concerned by a host of radical government policies that now threaten many basic principles espoused by all previous administrations, Democratic and Republican.

These include the rudimentary American commitment to peace, economic and social justice, civil liberties, our environment and human rights.

Also endangered are our historic commitments to providing citizens with truthful information, treating dissenting voices and beliefs with respect, state and local autonomy and fiscal responsibility.

At the same time, our political leaders have declared independence from the restraints of international organizations and have disavowed long-standing global agreements — including agreements on nuclear arms, control of biological weapons and the international system of justice.

Instead of our tradition of espousing peace as a national priority unless our security is directly threatened, we have proclaimed a policy of "preemptive war," an unabridged right to attack other nations unilaterally to change an unsavory regime or for other purposes. When there are serious differences with other nations, we brand them as international pariahs and refuse to permit direct discussions to resolve disputes.

Regardless of the costs, there are determined efforts by top U.S. leaders to exert American imperial dominance throughout the world.


http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-carter14nov14,0,3117329.story?track=hpmostemailedl ink


A nice summary of what is wrong with this country today, scary where we're headed though...

Don't worry too much. I'm sure the rest of the world will eventually unite and destroy the ability of our government to wreak havoc.

if you cannot, or refuse to, understand the motivations of those with whom you disagree, then you are no better than the people who are making the mistakes today.

A few short years and these guys will be gone.Things are finally changing for the better,I say.

Don't worry too much. I'm sure the rest of the world will eventually unite and destroy the ability of our government to wreak havoc.
It's only a matter of time. The foundation for US power is the world and the world market... wouldn't be too hard for a coalition of powerful countries to put a stop to power abuses if things get too out of control.

Don't worry too much. I'm sure the rest of the world will eventually unite and destroy the ability of our government to wreak havoc.

If the U.S. continues in this vein, I don't doubt it nor would I blame them.

IN RECENT YEARS, I have become increasingly concerned by a host of radical government policies that now threaten many basic principles espoused by all previous administrations, Democratic and Republican.Yeah, right. Why is it that liberals all of a sudden love Reagan so much? They hated his guts when he was in office.

The fact is, GWB is no different than any of the others. He sux ass...just like Clinton and Old Man Bush. Let's not pretend that things changed so dramatically once GWB got in office. It's just more of the same.

Instead of our tradition of espousing peace as a national priority unless our security is directly threatened,
Like before and after WWI? 61 million people dead in WWII.
http://www.secondworldwar.co.uk/casualty.html

thanks. Will read.

Like before and after WWI? 61 million people dead in WWII.
http://www.secondworldwar.co.uk/casualty.html

thats very interesting that the number of civilian casualities in Japan (presumably mostly killed by the nukes) is roughly the same number as the total of Americans who were killed. and it's only 3% of the civilian casualities that Japan inflicted on China.

That quote ignores a great deal of American history, and distorts the "good old days".

The article is written by Jimmy Carter, a failure as president and strange, dangerous creature after his presidency. He seems fully immersed in the vision of the annoited; the insane notion that if we only give Islamic Terrorists a chance for peace, they will join the family of peaceful nations.

The article is written by Jimmy Carter, a failure as president and strange, dangerous creature after his presidency. He seems fully immersed in the vision of the annoited; the insane notion that if we only give Islamic Terrorists a chance for peace, they will join the family of peaceful nations.


Dude, you have a way with words.

I didn't know it was "put on your sweater" Jimmy, but i agree with your assertions completely.

If Israel and the U.S. were destroyed tomorrow, the fanatic Muslims would move on to their nerxt target.

Being nice doesn't work. We were nice after the first WTC attack, and we all know what happened later. Murderers don't understand "nice".

And the point of his article is to show how far we have gone away from the things that made this a "good" country, why is it that Republicans are a-ok with the United States becoming a rogue state? One that throws away it's Constitution and it's long standing traditions that made it great in a pursuit of power?

It's like we're living in a bad dream or something, I mean, can all these things really be happening while people jump with glee in support of them?

And the point of his article is to show how far we have gone away from the things that made this a "good" country, why is it that Republicans are a-ok with the United States becoming a rogue state? One that throws away it's Constitution and it's long standing traditions that made it great in a pursuit of power?

It's like we're living in a bad dream or something, I mean, can all these things really be happening while people jump with glee in support of them?


I'm afraid that your idealistic views of the United States are a little inaccurate.


America hasn't always done what was right. We bought and sold human beings for a very long time. We were segregated, even in WWII, we had Jim Crow for almost 100 years after slavery. Women couldn't even vote for 150 years after independence. We've exploited people in other countries to get what they had, and we wanted time and time again.

You talk of throwing out the constitution. Do you think that the slaves had any rights under it??

The founding fathers were extreme radicals. They were absolute fanatics, and England fought us more than once because of what they envisioned, and carried out.

If we have any tradition, it's the tradition of radical freedom. We're still a bunch of rebels, and we do what we want regardless of what the world thinks, because there's nothing anyone can do about it. We have the big guns, and we'll use them on anyone who dare tries to get in our way.

Naturally, and with human nature being what it is, some people will jump up and down whan there's a war, just as some Palestineans cheered on 911.

If "good" is defined as the "rest of the world" approving of this country and its actions, I personally don't care about "good."

I agree with Betrade that the citizens of this country value freedom in a BIG way, as I believe ALL humans do. In my estimation, our freedeom ( and also our economic system ) is what lures thousands to this country.

Snouter, you do have a very concise and descriptive quote, and I agree, especially with your "vision of the annointed."

I can't really see too many problems with this country right now. I have no problems personally :shrug:


Things change. We're a progressive (isn't that hte term the Lib's have adopted as of late?) country. I still enjoy all my constituional freedoms, don't I?

One day the US is going to actually need help from some other countries in the world.
It would be nice to have a lot of friends, instead of a lot of enemies.
What really concerns me is that a lot of people act like the US is going to be a world superpower forever. History has shown time and time again that situations like this don't last.
Even if I disagree with our leaders, I could have some respect for them if they ever showed some consideration in their decision making process for what happens 20 or 30 years down the road. They seem pathologically incapable of foresight at this point though.

What really concerns me is that a lot of people act like the US is going to be a world superpower forever. History has shown time and time again that situations like this don't last.Yup. It happened to Rome, France, Britain, Germany...etc...etc...

Even if I disagree with our leaders, I could have some respect for them if they ever showed some consideration in their decision making process for what happens 20 or 30 years down the road. They seem pathologically incapable of foresight at this point though.Of course! Because the next election isn't 20 or 30 years down the road and that's all they care about. This is precisely why the Chinese are going to eventually whip us. They DO have a 20 or 30 year outlook and they ARE planning that far into the future. They don't have to worry about those pesky elections...

thats very interesting that the number of civilian casualities in Japan (presumably mostly killed by the nukes) is roughly the same number as the total of Americans who were killed. and it's only 3% of the civilian casualities that Japan inflicted on China.I think the numbers might be incorrect. Only 300,000 civilians dead in Japan? I think the atom bombs killed a combined total of about 100,000. In addition, I thought MANY more died in the firebombings of Tokyo. I found another site with information saying 670,000 Japanese civiliand died in WWII (plus another 810,000 wounded or "missing"...I'd assume today that any missing ppl actually died).

http://www.worldwar2database.com/html/frame5.htm

BTW, that site also showed 6,000 US civilian deaths.

Being nice doesn't work. We were nice after the first WTC attack, and we all know what happened later. Murderers don't understand "nice".Yup. The only way to defeat terrorism is to wipe them out...waste them all.

Even if I disagree with our leaders, I could have some respect for them if they ever showed some consideration in their decision making process for what happens 20 or 30 years down the road.
Taking democracy to mid-east is a foresight.

One day the US is going to actually need help from some other countries in the world.
It would be nice to have a lot of friends, instead of a lot of enemies.
What really concerns me is that a lot of people act like the US is going to be a world superpower forever. History has shown time and time again that situations like this don't last.
Even if I disagree with our leaders, I could have some respect for them if they ever showed some consideration in their decision making process for what happens 20 or 30 years down the road. They seem pathologically incapable of foresight at this point though.


Quite the contrary. The U.S. is establiashing a strong foothold in the Middle east before China does. Don't think that our leaders aren't well aware of China's status a major emerging power both militarally, and economically.

To beat them to the punch now will prove far better than fighting them 30 years from now. China has been openly hostile to the U.S. on numerous occasions, even going as far as threatening a nuclear attack within the past decade, and qite recently as well.

They need almost as much oil as we do now, and the situation is only going to get worse as time goes by.

I stop reading after this point:

"These include the rudimentary American commitment to peace, economic and social justice, civil liberties, our environment and human rights."

Look at all that absurd and orwellian PC newspeak. "Peace" means handing over American sovereignty to the UN, "social justice" is just another term for socialist redistribution schemes against the middle-class and the producers, "civil liberties" refer to special rights for special leftist interest groups like minorities and gays, i.e. affirmitive action, and as far as the environment and human rights, well last time I checked the environment has no rights for the goverment or man to respect, and "human rights" are a fabrication which do not exist: the only rights which exist are individual rights, "human rights" are false claims to the rights of others.

thats very interesting that the number of civilian casualities in Japan (presumably mostly killed by the nukes) is roughly the same number as the total of Americans who were killed. and it's only 3% of the civilian casualities that Japan inflicted on China.

Another accounting is" Japan: Soldiers: 1,930,000 Civilians: 700,000. Total: 2,630,000. More people, mostly civilains, were killed by fire bombing than by the 2 A Bombs.
Precise figures are not available but the firebombing and nuclear bombing campaign against Japan, directed by LeMay between March, 1945 and the Japanese surrender in August, 1945, may have killed more than one million Japanese civilians. Official estimates from the United States Strategic Bombing Survey put the figures at 330,000 people killed, 476,000 injured, 8.5 million people made homeless and 2.5 million buildings destroyed. Nearly half the built-up areas of sixty-four cities were totally destroyed.



.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_casualties_by_country

Dude, you have a way with words.



If Israel and the U.S. were destroyed tomorrow, the fanatic Muslims would move on to their nerxt target..

A new book: Dying to win (Pape) makes the cogent argument that their (suicide bombers) fight is with the occupation of ME countries by infidels. Remove occupiers, no more terrorism! I know this won't go down well with those who think they want to kill all of the infidels.

Wow, I actually agree with several comments made in thread so far. Kraw I agree with 100%. Not one of us here have seen any of our constitutional rights stripped from us. THere are lots of complaints that its happened or happening, but when exactly have the thought and speech police been around to yank your computer from you for saying as you please? When were stories fored to be pulled from papers and news shows because they weren't approved by the governmanet. When have we been told that all other reigions are fake, and that we have to be christians? None of these things are happening, nor will they happen. Liberals constantly complain that the current administration is stripping all of our rights. However, the only evidence I have seen of anyones rights being slowly taken away, are the conservatives, and maybe a few more central dem's. We are slowly but surely having our guns pulled from our hands.

However, you see verry verry few liberals crying outloud for this to cease immediatly. Its always an ok go ahead type of answer. They chose to instead preach of the coming of a U.S. police state where every minute of everyday, and every thought we think are recorded and cataloged. The only true stripping of rights we have going on, but the libs are ok with it. Thats not as sensational as the idea that some day we might not be to preach on street corners, or write editorial pieces and so on expressing how evil everything is.

The false picture of the good old days that are painted in the article are sad as well. America really has not changed a terrible amount since WWII. The only significant thing thats changed was our civil rights movement. There have always been protestors, politicians have always lied to us, many of them far far worse than the BA has done so far.

Peace really wasn't any more common than it is now, we still had a lot of other countries who ask for our help and money, and then say things behind us spreading distrust.

Our attack someone when diplomacy isnt working mode of doing things has not changed, we have done it repeatedly since the inception of america. Honesty was never a big factor. Hell look at how we lied cheated and stole the indians from the land in america. When tricking them and or imprisoning them didnt work, we were never beyond a good massacre.

Jimmy Carter was a fool as a president, he is a fool as a continued political man now. He had no clue while he served, and still doesnt now. He does seem to have a very selective memory about events in the past.

A lot of claims but no proof. Well it sounds good for the sound bites.

What specifically is worse now than a quarter century ago?

Wow, I actually agree with several comments made in thread so far. Kraw I agree with 100%. Not one of us here have seen any of our constitutional rights stripped from us. THere are lots of complaints that its happened or happening, but when exactly have the thought and speech police been around to yank your computer from you for saying as you please? When were stories fored to be pulled from papers and news shows because they weren't approved by the governmanet. When have we been told that all other reigions are fake, and that we have to be christians? None of these things are happening, nor will they happen. Liberals constantly complain that the current administration is stripping all of our rights. However, the only evidence I have seen of anyones rights being slowly taken away, are the conservatives, and maybe a few more central dem's. We are slowly but surely having our guns pulled from our hands.

However, you see verry verry few liberals crying outloud for this to cease immediatly. Its always an ok go ahead type of answer. They chose to instead preach of the coming of a U.S. police state where every minute of everyday, and every thought we think are recorded and cataloged. The only true stripping of rights we have going on, but the libs are ok with it. Thats not as sensational as the idea that some day we might not be to preach on street corners, or write editorial pieces and so on expressing how evil everything is.

The false picture of the good old days that are painted in the article are sad as well. America really has not changed a terrible amount since WWII. The only significant thing thats changed was our civil rights movement. There have always been protestors, politicians have always lied to us, many of them far far worse than the BA has done so far.

Peace really wasn't any more common than it is now, we still had a lot of other countries who ask for our help and money, and then say things behind us spreading distrust.

Our attack someone when diplomacy isnt working mode of doing things has not changed, we have done it repeatedly since the inception of america. Honesty was never a big factor. Hell look at how we lied cheated and stole the indians from the land in america. When tricking them and or imprisoning them didnt work, we were never beyond a good massacre.

Jimmy Carter was a fool as a president, he is a fool as a continued political man now. He had no clue while he served, and still doesnt now. He does seem to have a very selective memory about events in the past.


It's not happening since it's NOT happening to you, you don't rock the boat, you don't voice a whisper of protest, you don't say anything that isn't just a odd voice of support for whatever wrong the government does. WHY would anybody come knocking on your door?

If anybody brings up people like Sherman Austin who HAVE been stripped of their rights or the Patriot act you will tell us that they don't burn our Constitution and you will tell us how you support these draconian actions. What the real truth it is this, neo-cons don't give a rats ass about the "Constitution" or our civil rights, all they care about is controling others and greed, the Constitution just gets in the way, they will say ANYTHING to make it seem that people aren't losing their rights, and they will never utter a word about people like Jose Padilla. To do so would be to admit either their wrong, or they are lying.

Btw, how could you seriously call Jimmy Carter a fool as a president when your a vocal supporter of George Bush???

How does my opinion on bush have any bearing on my opinion of Carter?What exactly does that question have to do with anything this thread is addressing? Believe it or not, I am perfectly capable of likeing one person and dislikeing another. Its a special talent i have i guess.

I dislike Carter because I not only disagree with a very large percentage of his beliefs, but feel that he was ineffective, and afraid of rocking the boat.

Likeing Bush is easy for me. I dont support all of his policies, I dont support all his actions or beliefs. i do like that he sticks by what he believes in, does not take himself so seriously that he is incapable of admiting mistakes, when he says he is going to do something, whether I agree with it or not, he normally does do it, and many other qualities of his behavior. There, your question was answered. Feel free to dop that particular issue, as I have no desire to turn this into a Bush versus Carter thread. The article is related to carter, so discussing him is fine. The thread isnt much about bush, so turning this into the springboard for huge rants against him is pointless, there are plenty of other threads for discussions about him

It's not happening since it's NOT happening to you, you don't rock the boat, you don't voice a whisper of protest, you don't say anything that isn't just a odd voice of support for whatever wrong the government does. WHY would anybody come knocking on your door?

If anybody brings up people like Sherman Austin who HAVE been stripped of their rights or the Patriot act you will tell us that they don't burn our Constitution and you will tell us how you support these draconian actions. What the real truth it is this, neo-cons don't give a rats ass about the "Constitution" or our civil rights, all they care about is controling others and greed, the Constitution just gets in the way, they will say ANYTHING to make it seem that people aren't losing their rights, and they will never utter a word about people like Jose Padilla. To do so would be to admit either their wrong, or they are lying.

Btw, how could you seriously call Jimmy Carter a fool as a president when your a vocal supporter of George Bush???



Your generalities astound me. What makes you think that all conservatives are greedy, don't believe in the constitution, controlling others, being greedy, and all of the other outrageous accusations in your diatribe??

Liberals claim to oppose prejudice, but your accusations are completely prejudiced. Your saying that all "Neocons" fit YOUR description. Are you really so wise, and have such extraordinary insight that you know the hearts, minds, and beliefs of millions of Americans??

As for Jimmy Carter, I can tell you what a weak and ineffective President Carter was. I'm not saying he's a bad guy, because he isn't, but as president, he was an absolute failure, and America knew it. I think Jimmy did too, deep down.

I don't know how old you are, or if you recall, but anyone who was alive during the carter Presidency remembers how terrible things were as a result of his ill fated policies. Bad times like that are hard to forget.

His economic policies created 14% inflation, and 22% interest rates. Every leader in the middle east knew that they could bully him, and as a result, Americans sat in gas lines for hours and hours. We had record unemployment, real income steadily decreased or remained flat, and the poverty level rose significantly. It felt as though we were headed for another depression.

His foriegn policy was terrible. Every world leader knew that America had a weak and ineffective president, so it's no wonder that the Soviets didn't think twice about rolling the tanks into Afgahnistan. He DID however, authorize the funding of the Mujahadin. All of the liberals who blame Ronald Reagan for creating Osama should remind themselves that it was Jimmy Carter who authorized and implemented the policy that funded him. I don't knock him for that, because it was the most successful proxy war ever fought by the U.S., but to pretend that Reagan created is rewriting history.

Jimmy raised taxes every time he had a chance. He believed that it was impossible to lower interest rates and reduce inflation at the same time (which history has proven is false). He just didn't understand basic economics. He believed that we could tax our way out of the mess we were in. We couldn't. He created disincentives which stifled entrepenuership.

Some economists created a formula to determine how bad things were at that time. It was called the "MISERY index".

Jimmy actually blamed Americans for what he called "malaise", and stated that things would get worse, and that Americas' best days were behind us. He was the personification of anti-inspiration. When oil and gas were scarce, he went on national TV in front of a fire wearing a sweater to save on heating costs. He urged Americans to do the same. Rather than fix the problem he thought that if all wore sweaters and turned down the heat, everything would work out just fine.

That's why he was thrown out of office in a HUGE landslide. Americans can take a great deal, but there was no way that they could take another four years of Jimmy Carter. At the time, Ronald Reagan received more votes than any other president in U.S. history. Reagan deregulated oil prices within an hour of being sworn in, and prices dropped almost immediately. Within hours, the hostages in Iran were released, because the iraninas knew that we had a strong leader in the White House. Carter left in disgrace, and was extremely bitter about his loss for quite a few years.

But, in the end, he received his Nobel prize. It's too bad that he received it from the same folks who awarded it to the grandaddy of modern day terrorism; Yasser Arafat.

Quite the contrary. The U.S. is establiashing a strong foothold in the Middle east before China does. Don't think that our leaders aren't well aware of China's status a major emerging power both militarally, and economically.

To beat them to the punch now will prove far better than fighting them 30 years from now. China has been openly hostile to the U.S. on numerous occasions, even going as far as threatening a nuclear attack within the past decade, and qite recently as well.

They need almost as much oil as we do now, and the situation is only going to get worse as time goes by.

Isn't it possible, though, that our current policies in the Middle East could help China gain a foothold there?
We've been sending in troops, blowing up Muslims, building military bases, etc.
The Chinese could just come in and say "look, we don't want to fight you, we just want oil. We don't care about human rights, beat your women to death...we don't care. By the way, can we have some oil?"
Despite their tough talk, the Chinese haven't been attacking countries like the US has.

I stop reading after this point:

"These include the rudimentary American commitment to peace, economic and social justice, civil liberties, our environment and human rights."

Look at all that absurd and orwellian PC newspeak. "Peace" means handing over American sovereignty to the UN, "social justice" is just another term for socialist redistribution schemes against the middle-class and the producers, "civil liberties" refer to special rights for special leftist interest groups like minorities and gays, i.e. affirmitive action, and as far as the environment and human rights, well last time I checked the environment has no rights for the goverment or man to respect, and "human rights" are a fabrication which do not exist: the only rights which exist are individual rights, "human rights" are false claims to the rights of others.

Peace mean international cooperation on issues that effect us all. Social justice involves lifting more people into the middle class and setting up some safety nets in society. Civil liberties are what stop government stomping all over people, minorities give variety to society and gay marriage really will not make you more gay in your hetro marriage so it really isn't any of your business what two adults do. The environment is what we live in and if it gets more polluted than a dirty fish tank we really can't just change the water so we are all rather fubared. Human rights basically means respecting the Golden Rule i.e. do onto others as you would have them do onto you.

We've been sending in troops, blowing up Muslims, building military bases, etc..
We punish those who took pictures of prisoners. We do not blow up Muslim, terrorists do.

We punish those who took pictures of prisoners. We do not blow up Muslim, terrorists do.

So what do you call it when US planes drop bombs on people in the middle east? Liberating muslims?
They're all Muslim for the most part, ergo the US has been blowing Muslims to pieces.
You may qualify some of them as terrorists, but since terrorists don't wear a uniform that says "Terrorist" on the sleeve, it's a bit hard to always kill just terrorists and nobody else.

So what do you call it when US planes drop bombs on people in the middle east? Liberating muslims?
They're all Muslim for the most part, ergo the US has been blowing Muslims to pieces.
You may qualify some of them as terrorists, but since terrorists don't wear a uniform that says "Terrorist" on the sleeve, it's a bit hard to always kill just terrorists and nobody else.
It is hard to always kill just terrorists as you explained, but our target is always the terrorists, not Muslims. We do not want to blow up Muslims. That is the difference between us and terrorists.

Intent?