Is there life after death?

If so what is it like.

Do you become a ghost?

Are you reincarnated?

Do you wait until the final judgement and resurection?

I can't possibly know, therefore I don't care .

I think heaven and hell are very real social constructs. If you're remembered well, you're in heaven. If you're remembered poorly, you're in hell. Quite simple, remember hearing it in high school and thinking that it made perfect sense. I think everyone would like to believe in an afterlife because they just don't want to accept the fact that once its over, its over. Just like how I feel that religion is around because people don't want to admit that we just might be an evolutionary mistake, or just a random collection of atoms. But really, who knows? I'll tell you when I'm dead, keep checking your PMs, ok? =p

I see it as eternal sleep. Time is relative to change so when your heart stops etc your brain freezes and you're in one thought for the rest of eternity. The rest of eternity may only be seconds for everyone else, but time would stop for the deceased. The thoughts would be composed of everything that happened in your life. If you did bad things it would haunt you forever, if you did great things you will be happy for all eternity.
That also would explain why your life flashes before your eyes and then it freezes with that memory in your mind.

God says: "Oops...by bad...got the wrong person. *chuckle* DO OVER!"

:|

I guess I see it a bit differently than some. The question I always asked was this. If there is life after death, and God forbid it's the version that the Bible indorses, then what? I mean, virtually all other religions have a way into heaven or a greater consciousness. Those religions also say that there are many paths to God. Christianity expounds exclusivity, "I am the way the truth and the light, no man comes to the Father but by me." We can argue the merits of that statement for ages, but it ultimately comes down to this…It is either true or false, regardless of what our opinion is. If it's untrue then, big deal, it's over, right? But, if it's true then Houston we really do have a problem.

As far as the comment of nothingness after death, or us being a cosmic accident, with the laws of physics, thermodynamics, really everything in the universe, for me at least, it would definitely take more faith to assume that everything was a big accident. I see overwhelming evidence of design and order, which requires a Master Designer and Engineer. But the same thing applies. If not, then oh well. If so, then after death, we're gonna dwell someplace.

Please don’t misunderstand. This is just my opinion, but in my thinking, if Christianity is wrong, then at least I tried to be kind to my neighbor, tried to teach my kids the golden rule, etc. And then it's over and I’m plant food. If Christianity is right, then I really do know God. That conversation I have with the unseen is valid, and the guidance I receive from Him is real, not just the power of positive thinking. I don't have to worry about a place called Hell. I must interject here though, (since there are untold thousands of “Christians” who live for judging others”, that I have a decidedly different view of who Jesus is. He said to judge not or you'll be judged. He hung out with the reprobates of his era. He fed poor people, healed the sick. He cried for people who experienced sorrow. He would not have tried to demean anyone on this website either. In fact the discussion would be fascinating. He understood that he had to present his case and let his audience decide for themselves. I would have loved to see his answers to questions posed by some of the extremely intelligent people who frequent this website. Anyway, that’s my story

JT, I pretty much automatically place Christians into 2 categories once they reveal their religion to me. The thinking kind, and the non-thinking kind. You've firmly placed yourself into the first category with that post. You're ok in my book, and I hope you never feel that I'm crapping on your religion EVER on this board. If I slight Christianity, its of the brand that you don't subsribe to.

If there is no God there can be no heaven.

I believe a lot of people in this life who choose what many in this world believe to be hell will be in heaven. I also think a lot of do-gooders will end up elsewhere. The bottom line is I don't know. I don't want to know really. Would you wanna know? I believe God knows more than anyone.

Jesus <- it doesn't get more heavenly.

Nothing happens.

If there is no God there can be no heaven.

I believe a lot of people in this life who choose what many in this world believe to be hell will be in heaven. I also think a lot of do-gooders will end up elsewhere. The bottom line is I don't know. I don't want to know really. Would you wanna know? I believe God knows more than anyone.

Jesus <- it doesn't get more heavenly.
A devout Budhist would disagree with hat statement. Budhism is a religion without a God. It has an extensive explaination regarding an afterlife. I states that there is an afterlive which consists of reincarnation until one is born into a oneness with the heaven (nirvanah):hmm:

Wouldn't it be interesting if whatever you believe happens to you after death actually happens? Ie: if you're an atheist, you rot into worm food, if you're a Budhist, you're reincarnated, if you're a Christian, you get either the harps or the hot place, etc. etc.?

For my own opinion; I don't know what's going to happen, but I believe that something will happen. I may not subscribe to much in the way of organized religion, but I do understand thermodynamics and I do understand that we have measurable energy in our bodies. That energy has to go somewhere, right?

Wouldn't it be interesting if whatever you believe happens to you after death actually happens? Ie: if you're an atheist, you rot into worm food, if you're a Budhist, you're reincarnated, if you're a Christian, you get either the harps or the hot place, etc. etc.?


Kinda like in the Discworld...

I suspect that once you die, that's it, nothing happens for you past that point.
If something does happen after we die, then I think we must all have roughly the same experience.
Nature is as efficient as possible usually. It doesn't make sense to me to send some dead people to a place if they were "bad", and to another if they were "good". We weren't separated in life, why would we be in death?

I believe what happens in death after life is what you actually believe in.

If you believe in heaven and hell and all that biblical nonsense then you will go to heaven and hell.

If you believe that your mind is infinite and your bodyjust a physcial and always dying thing, your mind will go on forever. (That some how in perhaps a rather different interpretation came from my Humanities class)

If you believe in nothing - nothing will happen.

It seems logical.

I believe what happens in death after life is what you actually believe in.

If you believe in heaven and hell and all that biblical nonsense then you will go to heaven and hell.

If you believe that your mind is infinite and your bodyjust a physcial and always dying thing, your mind will go on forever. (That some how in perhaps a rather different interpretation came from my Humanities class)

If you believe in nothing - nothing will happen.

It seems logical.

Those are your beliefs, sure. And that's fine.
But, how is it logical?

It seems logical because whatever someone believes in, whether you are in a religion or don't believe in anything - my beliefs basically respecting each religion says that you will die the way you will believe you die.

I mean that may not be the way it is in the end but we will never know until we are there and I have no intentions of finding out for a long time. :D

You're beliefs are not logical. The basic fact is that you cannot cater to each individual system of beliefs. It simply does not work because they conflict.

You're beliefs are not logical.

It seems the grammar ninja has fallen.

Well, we are arguing semantics really. But, a belief system cannot be logical unless it is based on empirical evidence.
Currently empirical evidence seems to suggest that once your capacity for processing sensory information stops, so does the capacity to experience new things.

Just because we think they conflict doesn't mean they do in the afterlife.

Of course this being one of the biggest things ever debated, I doubt there will ever be an agreeance of any kind.

I feel that my logic makes sense and if you don't then thats your opinion.

Personally I would like to know what it felt to be a ghost or to be reincarnated.

Logic is something that can be proven. Because you feel your logic makes sense, doesn't mean that your logic makes sense.
I'm not saying your beliefs are not valid.
I'm simply saying that you are trying to attribute a quality to your belief system that is incompatible with it.
I can not only say that your belief system isn't logical, but I can prove it. I can't prove anything about how you feel about it though. That's the real difference between the two, and why your belief and logic aren't related.

*shrugs* And changes subject. George Carlin rocks my socks. :nice:

It seems the grammar ninja has fallen.
Gah! I have fallen! I must redeem myself.

Just because we think they conflict doesn't mean they do in the afterlife.

Of course this being one of the biggest things ever debated, I doubt there will ever be an agreeance of any kind.

I feel that my logic makes sense and if you don't then thats your opinion.

Personally I would like to know what it felt to be a ghost or to be reincarnated.
Actually, by nature they must conflict. Xianity states that everyone goes to either heaven or hell. I believe that we just cease to exist. Clearly it is impossible for the Xian viewpoint and my viewpoint to work together. Your logic is quite illogical.
It is not an opinion that your logic doesn't make sense, it's simple fact. Your opinion is wrong (yes, opinions can be wrong).

Death is the end for all but a few. These few include the chosen warriors who enjoy the pleasures of Valhöll after death. Of course, they include oath breakers, thieves, and the like who, after death, were taken to Niflheim for torment.

Since there is no afterlife, the only thing that survives after death is one's reputation, one's "good name". We should risk everything to gain and protect our good names.

The time of one's death is determined by fate, which is chosen by the Norns, and nothing one did can change the moment of one's death. However, what one does up until that moment is strictly one's own doing.

Therefore, one ought to make the very best of every moment of life, because the worst that could happen would be death, and the best that could happen would be fame and an enhancement to one's reputation.

Since one can't effect the time of one's own death, which is predestined anyway, there is nothing to lose and everything to gain by


..................being..............

bold and adventurous,
Samson

Is there life after death?

If so what is it like.

Do you become a ghost?

Are you reincarnated?

Do you wait until the final judgement and resurection?
I am a Christian, and in one respect only, I am somewhat heretical. I believe in Christian universalism, by which I mean that everyone eventually attains Heaven. I don't know how that works, necessarily - I used to believe that it worked by means of reincarnation, and I partly still believe that - but I no longer believe that everyone reincarnates, as some don't have to. In fact, because my only surviving brother died last year, the whole thing has been on my mind much more than it ever had before. (Other family members have died, a brother, my parents, aunts and uncles, but their deaths didn't raise the question so much, as my brother died when I was three, and when my parents died, although they died young, it seemed just the way of things. Parents die when their children are young, as my grandparents had died when my parents were young, it's just the way of things.) I am confident of the existence of an afterlife - I had dreams of my brother arriving there... true dreams, I believe.
I guess I see it a bit differently than some. The question I always asked was this. If there is life after death, and God forbid it's the version that the Bible indorses, then what? I mean, virtually all other religions have a way into heaven or a greater consciousness. Those religions also say that there are many paths to God. Christianity expounds exclusivity, "I am the way the truth and the light, no man comes to the Father but by me." We can argue the merits of that statement for ages, but it ultimately comes down to this…It is either true or false, regardless of what our opinion is. If it's untrue then, big deal, it's over, right? But, if it's true then Houston we really do have a problem.

As far as the comment of nothingness after death, or us being a cosmic accident, with the laws of physics, thermodynamics, really everything in the universe, for me at least, it would definitely take more faith to assume that everything was a big accident. I see overwhelming evidence of design and order, which requires a Master Designer and Engineer. But the same thing applies. If not, then oh well. If so, then after death, we're gonna dwell someplace.

Please don’t misunderstand. This is just my opinion, but in my thinking, if Christianity is wrong, then at least I tried to be kind to my neighbor, tried to teach my kids the golden rule, etc. And then it's over and I’m plant food. If Christianity is right, then I really do know God. That conversation I have with the unseen is valid, and the guidance I receive from Him is real, not just the power of positive thinking. I don't have to worry about a place called Hell. I must interject here though, (since there are untold thousands of “Christians” who live for judging others”, that I have a decidedly different view of who Jesus is. He said to judge not or you'll be judged. He hung out with the reprobates of his era. He fed poor people, healed the sick. He cried for people who experienced sorrow. He would not have tried to demean anyone on this website either. In fact the discussion would be fascinating. He understood that he had to present his case and let his audience decide for themselves. I would have loved to see his answers to questions posed by some of the extremely intelligent people who frequent this website. Anyway, that’s my story
That is very thoughtful, and very well said, JTKirk33.

No one of us can know what happens after we die of course, however I have my thoughts on it...and have actually always been interested in it.

I see it from the part of WHAT we are. We are 'humans' correct? But what is it that makes us have feelings, makes us being able to use our brain, what is it that makes us able to move or to speak? Generally everything we do? A human body with bones moving? lol. I dont know what you guys think but we are what we call souls. There is many stuff that will probably never be explained in this world, how we were created, how our souls got into human bodies...other souls got into animal bodies. But when our body "dies" and is no longer able to "live" then of course our sould will be let 'loose'. Ok i will admit it, I BELIEVE IN GHOSTS. I have been reading for a while about them and have been studying about their 'nature' and i personally dont believe that all these people having experiences with dead people are crazy.

My point? My point is that something DOES happen. Something new begins with our soul when we get out of our body. I dont know if i Heaven or Hell exists, i dont know what else exists. But I personally believe that our soul does go in maybe another body for another life, or goes to Heaven as many say. I have even heard that the most "people" that become "ghosts" are the souls that had a sudden death, or were afraid to move on to the other side.

So yes I believe our soul does not stay in our body after death, and it does not simply end there when you die. In fact a soul can never "die", we are immortal lol :p

But the thing I hate with these discussions is that there always will be people that will think your crazy, because everything you say sounds like a fairy tail. But oh well what can you do.

I am done with arguing with you liberal - there is just no getting through to you. Its like banging your head on a brick wall and I prefer not to reduce myself to that.

You believe what you want and I will believe what I want.

Your cut off. :P

:lock:

No one of us can know what happens after we die of course, however I have my thoughts on it...and have actually always been interested in it.

I see it from the part of WHAT we are. We are 'humans' correct? But what is it that makes us have feelings, makes us being able to use our brain, what is it that makes us able to move or to speak? Generally everything we do? A human body with bones moving? lol. I dont know what you guys think but we are what we call souls. There is many stuff that will probably never be explained in this world, how we were created, how our souls got into human bodies...other souls got into animal bodies. But when our body "dies" and is no longer able to "live" then of course our sould will be let 'loose'. Ok i will admit it, I BELIEVE IN GHOSTS. I have been reading for a while about them and have been studying about their 'nature' and i personally dont believe that all these people having experiences with dead people are crazy.

My point? My point is that something DOES happen. Something new begins with our soul when we get out of our body. I dont know if i Heaven or Hell exists, i dont know what else exists. But I personally believe that our soul does go in maybe another body for another life, or goes to Heaven as many say. I have even heard that the most "people" that become "ghosts" are the souls that had a sudden death, or were afraid to move on to the other side.

So yes I believe our soul does not stay in our body after death, and it does not simply end there when you die. In fact a soul can never "die", we are immortal lol :p

But the thing I hate with these discussions is that there always will be people that will think your crazy, because everything you say sounds like a fairy tail. But oh well what can you do.
:yeahthat: :D

In fact, because my only surviving brother died last year, the whole thing has been on my mind much more than it ever had before. (Other family members have died, a brother, my parents, aunts and uncles, but their deaths didn't raise the question so much, as my brother died when I was three, and when my parents died, although they died young, it seemed just the way of things.


Della I lost my mom when I was in my early 20's, and my wife died quite unexpectedly 2 yrs ago leaving me to raise our only daughter of 8. I could be quite bitter as I feel I have every right to be. I could blame God, and be justified in my thinking. But ya know, death is just part of living really. We all have an appointment with it, some sooner than others. I find great comfort in my Christian faith regarding my wife's passing. If nothing else, my understanding of who God is, and my faith in Him has increased as a result. Her death has caused me to stop chasing after the temporal and has allowed me notice the little gifts of this life, (a sunset in the fall, or little eyes looking to me for comfort when a storm comes, for example). I'm grateful for that. And then I realize that in a different sense, I represent those little eyes looking to my Father when the storms of this life come my way. This world can be so ugly at times, but then my faith tells me that I shouldn't fear the things of this world, because He has overcome the world. Wishful thinking? Maybe, but then maybe not. For me atleast, I’ve come to the place that I don’t fear the answer to that question anymore.

Your soul goes through a rest period then when its healed again it transitions into a new life another human being. When you have lived the lives you need to gain the knowledge required then your time on earth is over and you live in the dimension heaven.

I would like to ask a question to those of you that believe in a soul, if you don't mind.
It appears that everything in this universe exists for awhile in some form, then moves on to something else. Stars are born, and they die. Same with planets, solar systems, even the particles that make up matter. Change is the only constant, it seems, as everything moves from order to disorder.
How is it, then, that we would posess "souls" which violate every law of the universe we have observed by being immortal and timeless?
I think that, since humans are aware of our own mortality, we invent a concept like a "soul" to help ease our own cognitive dissonance about death.

Della I lost my mom when I was in my early 20's, and my wife died quite unexpectedly 2 yrs ago leaving me to raise our only daughter of 8. ...........
This world can be so ugly at times, but then my faith tells me that I shouldn't fear the things of this world, because He has overcome the world. Wishful thinking? Maybe, but then maybe not. For me atleast, I’ve come to the place that I don’t fear the answer to that question anymore.
Thank you for what you say, JTKirk33. I give you my sympathy for your losses.
I would like to ask a question to those of you that believe in a soul, if you don't mind.
It appears that everything in this universe exists for awhile in some form, then moves on to something else. Stars are born, and they die. Same with planets, solar systems, even the particles that make up matter. Change is the only constant, it seems, as everything moves from order to disorder.
How is it, then, that we would posess "souls" which violate every law of the universe we have observed by being immortal and timeless?
I think that, since humans are aware of our own mortality, we invent a concept like a "soul" to help ease our own cognitive dissonance about death.
It's because, I believe, that our souls originate outside of this universe, and are not subject to its laws.

Stars are born, and they die. Same with planets, solar systems, even the particles that make up matter. Change is the only constant, it seems, as everything moves from order to disorder.
How is it, then, that we would posess "souls" which violate every law of the universe we have observed by being immortal and timeless?



I would agree with Della that the soul is not a part of this temporary universe. The soul is restrained here for a time period though, (which raises a whole different question). But as you state DA Fanatic, everything here goes from order to disorder. (Society included) I do believe however that there are things that we acknowledge in this existence that don't dissolve into chaos. Love for instance is an intangible thing, but it continues. Compassion, and knowledge exist forever. Knowledge may be lost for a time, but it doesn't go away. We loose it, not the other way around. The creative "spirit" exists on a constant basis. Desire and our ability to appreciate things, etc. It would appear that everything immortal is un-seeable, which makes for quite an interesting paradox. And all of those things would qualify as attributes of the human soul.

Could you agree, then, that if I start asking for rational explanations for your belief system, that it all breaks down?
That the belief systems you have chosen are irrational beliefs based on an irrational premise?
I'm just trying to establish whether you think your beliefs are actually rational, or not.
And if you admit it's irrational, and you are okay with that, then how do you reconcile that with the rational universe?
Really, these are things that interest me at the moment.

I cannot remember a thing from the millions of years that preceded my birth, why should I dread the billions of years after my death? Some Greek Philosopher said something like that.

I don't believe in a soul and even if there is one, our memories are stored in our brain, takes brain-dead to a whole new level.

I cannot remember a thing from the millions of years that preceded my birth, why should I dread the billions of years after my death? Some Greek Philosopher said something like that.

I don't believe in a soul and even if there is one, our memories are stored in our brain, takes brain-dead to a whole new level.

Yeah? Well, if you'd meat me at Barney's........................then you could find out if I knew you in a previous life.............

Persistantly,
Samson

Yeah? Well, if you'd meat me at Barney's........................then you could find out if I knew you in a previous life.............

Persistantly,
Samson

lol you are persistant. :D

Could you agree, then, that if I start asking for rational explanations for your belief system, that it all breaks down?
That the belief systems you have chosen are irrational beliefs based on an irrational premise?.


I think the belief in the spiritual, or unseen is perfectly rational. But not in a physical sense. I think one has to separate the two. Wind and water are two different realities. Water can be seen, tasted, etc. Wind on the otherhand is invisible. You can feel it and see the results of it, but not in the same way as water. They are both real however, and quite rational. But here's the crux of this issue....The body, this vessel we live in for a time, is dieing, and will die. There is nothing spiritually redeeming to it. The spirit however is unique. It is that part of ourselves that no one can see, but many can feel. It's not your hands that help a neighbor, it's your sense of responisbility that drives those actions. The flesh is the tool that the spirit uses to carry out what it wills. And in reality, until one believes he or she is more than just meat and bones, a spiritual being if you will, one will never be able to justify the two positions, or make rational sense of them. I would also add, in the world we find ourselves in, there is quite alot going on that is quite irrational, however it still exists. Would you not agree? Forgive me if I rambled to much.:)

I think the belief in the spiritual, or unseen is perfectly rational. But not in a physical sense. I think one has to separate the two. Wind and water are two different realities. Water can be seen, tasted, etc. Wind on the otherhand is invisible. You can feel it and see the results of it, but not in the same way as water. They are both real however, and quite rational. But here's the crux of this issue....The body, this vessel we live in for a time, is dieing, and will die. There is nothing spiritually redeeming to it. The spirit however is unique. It is that part of ourselves that no one can see, but many can feel. It's not your hands that help a neighbor, it's your sense of responisbility that drives those actions. The flesh is the tool that the spirit uses to carry out what it wills. And in reality, until one believes he or she is more than just meat and bones, a spiritual being if you will, one will never be able to justify the two positions, or make rational sense of them. I would also add, in the world we find ourselves in, there is quite alot going on that is quite irrational, however it still exists. Would you not agree? Forgive me if I rambled to much.:)

A very well thought out answer, thank you.
I would disagree that irrational things happen all the time. I think we call them irrational because we don't understand them. To ancient humans, an eclipse may have been irrational because it was seemingly random. With more understanding, though, we came to understand what causes such and event, and how to predict it.
I think we live in a completely rational universe. And, I think we are best able to understand our universe when we use our rational mind.
Your example of water and wind, for instance. We can see wind...we can measure it, we can feel it, we can use it to lift our aircraft. We don't experience it in the same way as water, but it is just as real, and just as well understood.

Also, I think you did a good job of defining what you consider the spirit. That part of ourselves we can feel but cannot see...that is a definition that can actually mean something, so I thank you for that.
Given that definition, then, how is the spirit affected by bodily injuries? For instance, there are specific areas of the brain dealing with conscious awareness. You could sustain a brain injury that keeps you from being conciously aware of what you see, even though your brain is still processing information.
Therefore, our awareness and interaction with the world around us is related to what our brain can perceive and process.
What is the relationship, then, between the spirit and the brain's ability to perceive and process information?
Given the relationship between brain functionality and perception, I still don't see how one could rationally separate spirit from biology though.

And if you admit it's irrational, and you are okay with that, then how do you reconcile that with the rational universe?
Really, these are things that interest me at the moment.
Irrational, maybe. I would submit that my beliefs are rational, in a different way from scientific rationality - they hang together, and make logical sense together.

What is the relationship, then, between the spirit and the brain's ability to perceive and process information?
Given the relationship between brain functionality and perception, I still don't see how one could rationally separate spirit from biology though.
It's sort of like pornography - meaning, I can't (necessarily) define it, but I know it when I see it.
There are parts of the mind that are independent of the brain. I had a friend once, who was confined to a mental hospital. She was to all intents and purposes, under a powerful delusion, that she was married to a man who was actually with someone else, and she used to complain loudly that the housework she did was never acknowledged by him, and that he (in reality her doctor) didn't treat her with the affection due to her as his wife.
Years later, she explained to me, she knew on some level, that she was play acting. Part of her knew all along, the true state of affairs, although on the surface, she seemed to herself and to everyone else, including the guy who she thought was her husband and who did visit her (they were friends after all) she was completely deluded, by a disorder of her brain chemistry. Mind is independent of brain.
How spirit, soul and mind interact, no one knows, but that they do, is inarguable. Near-death experiences show that, as does one's day to day experience. I have the experience of an 'observer' who watches me do things, as I believe, we all do. Then there's a second order observer, who monitors the first one, and which one is the self? Maybe they all are...

I don't think our consciousness survives our physical death for the same reason I don't think it existed before our physical birth.

If belief in life after death makes people's lives less anxious, then it's OK. But so many people learn to delay and avoid the living of their lives because of a belief that there is something else, more important, coming after death.

I think that when we die, we are re-encarnated, but we leave our past memories behind.

I'm an atheist altruist. So when I die, I want my rotting cadaver to be the soil to a tree that feeds others. It can be hard to believe in sometimes, but thats what I'm hopin' for.

If you believe in heaven and hell and all that biblical nonsense then you will go to heaven and hell.



If you believe that your mind is infinite and your bodyjust a physcial and always dying thing, your mind will go on forever. (That some how in perhaps a rather different interpretation came from my Humanities class)

If you believe in nothing - nothing will happen.

It seems logical.

But what YOU believe in is logical? Gimme a break :nonono: I love how people like this love to bash people of faith for their ideas then come up with something twice as absurd and call it logic.

Hey - I didn't come up with it - some dead philosopher did and I never said that I agreed with it.

But what I was trying to say that if you believe that there is a heaven or hell or if you beleive that the mind is infinite... why not?

People are always trying to figure out what happens after death, but none of us will know until its too late and we just can't inform you of what really happens. So why not please everyone and tell them whatever their religion tells them (as they are going to believe it anyways) is true.

THAT is logical.

But - whatever. You believe in whatever you want to believe in.

Death is the end for all but a few. These few include the chosen warriors who enjoy the pleasures of Valhöll after death. Of course, they include oath breakers, thieves, and the like who, after death, were taken to Niflheim for torment.

Since there is no afterlife, the only thing that survives after death is one's reputation, one's "good name". We should risk everything to gain and protect our good names.
According to Nordic religion the great hall of Vahalia will be overtaken in a final battle and all the warriors will die a second death.

I see it as eternal sleep. Time is relative to change so when your heart stops etc your brain freezes and you're in one thought for the rest of eternity. The rest of eternity may only be seconds for everyone else, but time would stop for the deceased. The thoughts would be composed of everything that happened in your life. If you did bad things it would haunt you forever, if you did great things you will be happy for all eternity.
That also would explain why your life flashes before your eyes and then it freezes with that memory in your mind.

I like that idea!

You're beliefs are not logical. The basic fact is that you cannot cater to each individual system of beliefs. It simply does not work because they conflict.

:rolleyes:

Chris, the idea of any after life at ALL is not logical. Logic is the downfall of every religion.

If one believes God can do anything and knows all, why couldn't he cater to each individual system of beliefs? How is that any different than the Christian belief of what heaven is? Most Christians I know believe that God will give them what ever they want once they are in heaven. So, why wouldn't God let them live eternity the way they would like?

By the way, it upsets me to see people telling others what they can and cannot believe in. People are entitled to believe what they want to as far as religion goes, and denying someone of that is sick imho. I don't go around telling people not to believe in God.

Inherent in FL's statement is the idea that God is bound by the laws of logic, which isn't a necessary truth. That fact that two beliefs systems contradict one another from our human standpoint doesn't necessarily mean that God can't create a universe in which both are true. It does mean we can't understand it.

Nothing happens. You stiffen, become cold and decompose over time. Human beings hold no special place in this world in any sort of cosmic or designed sense. We die just like any other organism.

Nothing happens. You stiffen, become cold and decompose over time. Human beings hold no special place in this world in any sort of cosmic or designed sense. We die just like any other organism.

Proof?

Proof?

Proof of what? That human beings don't hold a special place in the cosmos with some Creator that cares enough to set aside a special place for them when they die? I'd say the burden of proof is on those making outlandish claims.

Proof of what? That human beings don't hold a special place in the cosmos with some Creator that cares enough to set aside a special place for them when they die? I'd say the burden of proof is on those making outlandish claims.

You said nothing happens after you die. I want proof of this claim.

You said nothing happens after you die. I want proof of this claim.

Do you want proof that unicorns don't exist also? But I suppose we can entertain the thought of proof for the nonexistence of an afterlife. One would have to assume that some biological process or at least some measurable account of a soul leaving the body and going elsewhere would occur. However this is not the case. There is no evidence or proof of a soul.

I liken it to astrology. One would have to figure that in order for the stars to affect our lives in such a profound way that there would be some medium or cause and affect that would by its own nature have to be measurable. Well, there isn't. Astrology is bogus, just like the idea of an afterlife. Sure that isn't proof, but like I said before the ones making outlandish claims would be the ones needing to provide proof (of which they have none).

My view of the afterlife is this: My wife once told me that we chose our own lives before we are born. And its sort of like that Leonard Cohen song: dance me to the children that are waiting to be born. Every child choses the time and place of their birth. I did not always believe that but I do now.

There is also a heaven but its a place where we can make it what we want it to be. Heaven can be the place where we can get the things we always wanted on earth. Its a perfect place.

My father talked of a "great tavern in the sky" and I think that might be what its like.

People can be reincarnated but only if they chose to. Sometimes reincarnation is a punishment (as the Manichaens and Australian Aborigones both believed) but it could also be a learning experience.

My view of the afterlife is this: My wife once told me that we chose our own lives before we are born. And its sort of like that Leonard Cohen song: dance me to the children that are waiting to be born. Every child choses the time and place of their birth. I did not always believe that but I do now.

There is also a heaven but its a place where we can make it what we want it to be. Heaven can be the place where we can get the things we always wanted on earth. Its a perfect place.

My father talked of a "great tavern in the sky" and I think that might be what its like.

People can be reincarnated but only if they chose to. Sometimes reincarnation is a punishment (as the Manichaens and Australian Aborigones both believed) but it could also be a learning experience.

I pretty much agree - and I am a Christian! (Christian Universalist - I believe reincarnation may be, probably is, the means of Universalism.)

Knowing there is a life after death means a very big deal to me. I'm still searching for answers.

If I know there is no life after death, I wouldn't be a good citizen, I would manipulate, extort, use and hurt. Afterall, it is a jungle, and only the king survives... I would also indulge in worldly pleasures... I'm sure many people would feel the same (not everyone...so don't use that against me.)

If I know there is a life after death, then I'd want to know if:

1- It is a one-road-ahead... meaning, that all humanity will end up in the same place... hence, I'd end up doing the same stuff above.

2- If there are two places, one good and one bad... for the good one you'd have to believe in something in this world and for the bad one, you don't.... Like the religions of this world... some easy and some hard... believe in me and I will grant you whatever after death and everyone else is doomed. In this case, I would investigate the most credible... and follow it... and do a little bit of the first thing... not to lose on the fun.

3- There are two places, one good but with levels, and one bad with levels... etc... you know the rest...just believe more and better better and you'll get a higher level or burn in hell... there is nothing worse than hell...

What worries me is that everyone claims they are 'the one', and that everyone else will burn in hell... which one is the right one? There must be one right one... it could be atheism... or one of the other religions around... some only 160 years old... and even amongst religions sects claiming they are the right sect and the other sects aren't right....

So what does a sane, clear minded, focused and educted human being do in this case?

The ONLY way to get to heaven is to believe that Jesus died on the cross for you, and thats what God's going to look at when you stand before Him one day. Whether you believe it or not, thats whats gonna happen.

If I know there is no life after death, I wouldn't be a good citizen, I would manipulate, extort, use and hurt. Afterall, it is a jungle, and only the king survives... I would also indulge in worldly pleasures... I'm sure many people would feel the same (not everyone...so don't use that against me.)

What makes you so sure that you are not doing these things everyday?

So what does a sane, clear minded, focused and educated human being do in this case?

Get rich, don't get caught. Jail's a b****. Become a politician. Sell cars. Become a lawyer. Become a banker. Sell real estate.