McCain is right. :nice:

link (http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/breaking/101905AZ_McCain_Immigration.php)

Any plan that would deport illegal immigrants before allowing them to apply for a guest worker program is unrealistic, said McCain, R-Ariz., who has introduced a temporary worker bill with Kennedy.

"Somebody is going to have to explain how that is workable," McCain said of a bill that would deport illegal immigrants. "My friends, that's not what the lady who holds the lamp beside the golden door is all about."

Well, any plan to deport illegal immigrants might not work. But a 40 foot tall concrete fence with barbed wire across the top would prevent more from crossing over.

Jojo, what's this thing you have for illegal immigrants? Should we pick and choose among the laws we don't like?

Maybe we should pick and choose among the laws we can actually enforce. Illegal immigration into this country is a problem precisely because we can't enforce the existing laws.

McCain is right. :nice:


Yes he is.


Well, any plan to deport illegal immigrants might not work. But a 40 foot tall concrete fence with barbed wire across the top would prevent more from crossing over.

Are you saying we should do what Russia did when they erected the Berlin Wall?

Well, any plan to deport illegal immigrants might not work. But a 40 foot tall concrete fence with barbed wire across the top would prevent more from crossing over.
Barbed wire is unamerican.
Maybe we should pick and choose among the laws we can actually enforce. Illegal immigration into this country is a problem precisely because we can't enforce the existing laws.
Isn't it true we don't enforce all our laws at this time?

Groff, you are incorrect. The US chooses not to enforce the laws, because there is little political incentive behind such a move. Pathetic, but true. As I suggested, a 40 foot wall would enforce the law just fine.

Jojo, where do you get these ideas from? Who says barbed wire is unamerican? Apparently, you feel that the US has no right to protect its borders, and that's plain silly.

It's true that it's mostly Mexicans crossing from the border, but any terrorist (if they someday had problems flying, which they don't; the US is a sieve) who wishes to cross from Mexico could also do so easily.

Are you saying we should do what Russia did when they erected the Berlin Wall?

If that's what it takes to enforce the law, then why not? Because it offends your sensibilities? Because it's unsightly? You clearly have no idea how much money the US loses because of illegal immigration. California is practically falling apart. I'm sorry, but the US has a right to enforce it's laws.

California is practically falling apart? Really? I'm pretty sure that, at the end of the day, most Californians would be more willing to part from the Union and create their own country than even those whacky Texans. I really don't get this entire "destroying our country" through illegal immigration argument, because I've lived in LA and San Diego just about all my life, and I have yet to find a massive uprising of citizens against the illegals.

And when he says things like he says here, that is why I'd vote for McCain if he runs for president. I know that it could very well just be a trick or a ploy, but even if it is, I love his salespitch, and for that reason alone, I like the guy.

Should we pick and choose among the laws we don't like?

In general, absolutely. If a law doesn't make sense to me I have no qualms about breaking it. I have my own sense of right and wrong, I do not need a government to tell me what to do.

In general, absolutely. If a law doesn't make sense to me I have no qualms about breaking it. I have my own sense of right and wrong, I do not need a government to tell me what to do.

As long as you understand that this is a two way street. Hope you don't have any problems with people who see no problem with pedophelia.

California is practically falling apart? Really?

Boy, you have to get out more. Do you know how much debt California is in? Do you know how much money the state spends on the welfare of Illegal aliens? I lived in California too for many years, and I know plenty of people who are frustrated over the problem. I guess in your circles, people don't care that the state has gone down the Krapper.

My sensibilities are offended.

The land of the free does not have barbed wire walls.

Senator McCain is right because he recognizes the need for a comprehensive reform plan. He also understands that the relationship with our neighbors in Mexico is important. When our representatives in congress act on reform real solutions will happen. Until then we have to grin and bear the filthy, disgusting antics of Tancredo and these flying chimpanzee Minutemen.

This only confirms what most of us knew about McCain for years; that he is mentally ill.

MCCain has been sabotaging Arizona's attempts to control and enforce laws regarding illegals and their employers for years. This is nothing new. He is in the same pockerts as nearly every other Republican, with only a few, very minor, exceptions. IT is a simple matter to put a stop to it, you just go after employers, and use the RICO statures as a club. Fines they laugh at; serious prison time is another thing altogether for white collar vermin and labor racketeers.

On Tuesday, October 18, U.S. Senators John McCain and Edward Kennedy will address the National Chamber Foundation forum on “Comprehensive Immigration Reform: Fixing a Broken System.” The senators will discuss their comprehensive immigration reform bill, the only immigration legislation with bipartisan support in the U.S. Senate.


link (http://www.friendsofmccain.com/news/dspnews.cfm?id=305)

I guess this insanity comes full circle when Ted "The Swimmer" Kennedy proposes to "reform" the system that contributed to the fall of The West which he created in the mid-60's. :p

How stupid are most Massachusetts voters. :mad: I guess they are like most Connecticut voters. :(

It takes a senator to know the senate.

McCain is right.

An alliance between Tancredo and McCain might prove to be worthwhile.

If that's what it takes to enforce the law, then why not? Because it offends your sensibilities? Because it's unsightly? You clearly have no idea how much money the US loses because of illegal immigration. California is practically falling apart. I'm sorry, but the US has a right to enforce it's laws.

All I can say is the reasons you give for doing so are the reasons the Russians gave when putting up the Berlin Wall ,which became a symbol of evil to the free West.


Plus,you know how much money it would take to put a wall up [North and South borders] from coast to coast?

Not to mention how much it would cost for 24 hour per day guards etc.?

All I can say is the reasons you give for doing so are the reasons the Russians gave when putting up the Berlin Wall ,which became a symbol of evil to the free West.

So you are against the wall that Israel is building? Personally, I support the wall in Israel (and the racism and bigotry of Israel in this case) since the Arab Muslims have proved to be too dangerous to allow in.

The federal and state governments have to enforce the existing laws that prohibit employers from using illegal workers. Unless they do that, there's no use trying to patrol hundreds of miles of border - America is not North Korea.

The comparison to commie countries makes no sense. They keep their own idiots in, we are trying to keep filthy criminals out.

McCain is saying its not going to work because he doesnt want it to work.

:
But now, a renowned University of Florida economist who is admittedly pro-immigration in his personal politics has found that its net financial cost to taxpayers is much larger than anyone had been able to quantify previously.

UF economist David Denslow found a net cost of $1,800 per year to the state per immigrant family, which will provide ammunition for the anti-immigration folks.

Denslow's academic credentials and political track record add credibility to the finding. He is a distinguished service professor, a registered Democrat who voted for President Bush in 2000 but against him in 2004, and was an adviser to Republican Gov. Bob Martinez in the 1980s.

He crunched the numbers and found in Florida each immigrant household costs the state roughly $1,800 on a net basis. In other words, $1,800 is the total of how much more public services immigrants consume mostly Medicaid and education and how much less in taxes they pay than does the average resident.

Naturally the article continues the myth of the rediculously low number of illegals as '10 million', when it is easily two or three times that just from Mexico alone, so just multiply the '$1,800' by anywhere from 2 to 5 times the rediculously low claim in the article.

:
Because he did not distinguish between legal and illegal immigrants, the $1,800 figure is the average of both.
.
PREEMPTIVE LINKY POO FOR THE CLUELESS UNINFORMED NEUROTICS WHO ALWAYS DEMAND THEM (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/orl-brown1405oct14,0,924446.column?coll=orl-opinion-headlines)


In other words, he hid the true costs of illegals by combining their costs with legals who are covered by wage and hour laws, as well as workman's comp insurance laws, to make the numbers look smaller. Nor does he bother to add in the drop in wage levels for native legals that will add significantly more to the costs, nor the moeny that get drained by wiring bucks home to build the family mansion in Tampico or Guadalahara somewhere.. Even after he cooked the numbers down to nothing, there was at least $1,800 he couldn't bury and hide from peer review, not to mention using the absurdly low media standard lie of there only being '10 million' illegals in the U.S. as well.

McCain is saying its not going to work because he doesnt want it to work.


Exactly. There is NO political will to fix this problem. If there were, it wouldn't even be that difficult.

The corrupt Mexican government deports illegals daily, and guards their southern border with an iron fist, but expects the U.S. to keep allowing them to come here in droves. That's because they want the billions of American dollars that are added to their economy daily by "guest workers".

That's the latest political buzz word. "Guests" are invited and welcome. Illegal tresspassers are not, so they're no ones "guests". This is another catchy little phrase to make criminals appear to be innocent of any wrongdoing.

Speaking of the filthy, corrupt Mexican government, is still impossible for a Gringo to get a fair trial in Mexico?

The federal and state governments have to enforce the existing laws that prohibit employers from using illegal workers. Unless they do that, there's no use trying to patrol hundreds of miles of border - America is not North Korea.

You make it sound like the government answers to the people it serves. :|

McCain is saying its not going to work because he doesnt want it to work.

He recognizes it takes more than will. Attitude ain't everything here. A comprehensive reform plan that is backed up by the congress and the american people.

Exactly. There is NO political will to fix this problem. If there were, it wouldn't even be that difficult.

Good point. Change in policy, too.

The corrupt Mexican government deports illegals daily, and guards their southern border with an iron fist, but expects the U.S. to keep allowing them to come here in droves. That's because they want the billions of American dollars that are added to their economy daily by "guest workers".
Another good point. Many illegals are coming up through south american countries crossing into our own.
That's the latest political buzz word. "Guests" are invited and welcome. Illegal tresspassers are not, so they're no ones "guests". This is another catchy little phrase to make criminals appear to be innocent of any wrongdoing.

It is accurately used as a legal term as well. Guests are documented.

Speaking of the filthy, corrupt Mexican government, is still impossible for a Gringo to get a fair trial in Mexico?

I can't even get local migrant workers to speak to my gringette wife. God only knows how many of them are illegal immigrants.

The characterization of the mexican government is irrelevant. The reasons why people want to come into our country are only important if one is considering the political relationship between the governments.

The characterization of the mexican government is irrelevant. The reasons why people want to come into our country are only important if one is considering the political relationship between the governments.

Not sure what you mean here, but Mexico should be invaded by civilized people to flush away the corruption and do what it takes to stop discrimination against White people there.

Not sure what you mean here, but Mexico should be invaded by civilized people to flush away the corruption and do what it takes to stop discrimination against White people there.

Surely there would have to be a politically correct compelling reason to do such a thing. :|

No, it would be politically incorrect because it would mean standing up for Whites in a country that prevents Gringos from having equal treatment under their "law." Though this sounds like the USA today, I am referring to Mexico.

John McCain is a wise white man who understands the value of peace to the american people.

jojo, let's try to elevate the level of discussion regarding this issue; McCain should be institutionized, either in prison or in a mental hospital.

because I've lived in LA and San Diego just about all my life, and I have yet to find a massive uprising of citizens against the illegals.


What is your comment about this:

The hospital crisis is especially severe in California. Over the past two years, 37 hospitals have been forced to shut down, and up to 15 percent more may close by 2005. Over 7 million Californians are currently uninsured.
___

Why is the population increasing but hospitals are closing and there are budget deficits all over CA?

Exodus 22:21

Do not mistreat an alien or oppress him, for you were aliens in Egypt.

Exodus 23:9

Do not oppress an alien; you yourselves know how it feels to be aliens, because you were aliens in Egypt.

Leviticus 19:33

When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him.

Leviticus 19:34

The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy 10:19

And you are to love those who are aliens, for you yourselves were aliens in Egypt.

All I can say is the reasons you give for doing so are the reasons the Russians gave when putting up the Berlin Wall ,which became a symbol of evil to the free West.
They put up the wall to keep people in, not out. Nobody was trying to immigrate to Eastern Germany in all of it's Communist glory. They wanted out.

For those of you who disagree with McCain, have you seen any plans for the removal of illegal immigrants already within our borders that you find acceptable? Please, inform us of what this plan might be.

For those of you who disagree with McCain, have you seen any plans for the removal of illegal immigrants already within our borders that you find acceptable? Please, inform us of what this plan might be.
I haven't followed politics for a couple of months now, so I don't know if any plans are even tabled. However, just snatching them and putting them on a cattle car and transporting them to the border works for me. If they don't have a birth certificate and SSN it's back to Mexico for them. Or China. Mexicans aren't the only illegals in America. The ones in prisons should be executed to cut costs. :)

jesus has the right immigration plan

I haven't followed politics for a couple of months now, so I don't know if any plans are even tabled. However, just snatching them and putting them on a cattle car and transporting them to the border works for me. If they don't have a birth certificate and SSN it's back to Mexico for them. Or China. Mexicans aren't the only illegals in America. The ones in prisons should be executed to cut costs. :)


Tell me you're kidding. Did I specify actually workable plans?

That's the thing, do you think our economy wouldn't take a huge blow if we just started rounding up illegals and shipping them back out? I'm not arguing against the morality of it, because in a moral sense they're here illegally so we can do whatever we want to kick them out. I'm arguing that realistically, it just can't happen. Just can't, without throwing the entire country into a serious economic funk, and I think that's what McCain is saying, too. Plus, how in the hell are you going to find them all?

Tell me you're kidding. Did I specify actually workable plans?

That's the thing, do you think our economy wouldn't take a huge blow if we just started rounding up illegals and shipping them back out? I'm not arguing against the morality of it, because in a moral sense they're here illegally so we can do whatever we want to kick them out. I'm arguing that realistically, it just can't happen. Just can't, without throwing the entire country into a serious economic funk, and I think that's what McCain is saying, too. Plus, how in the hell are you going to find them all?
No, I don't think we'll go into an economic funk. The jobs that these people do that no American will do include things like sweatshop labor and picking fruit for a dollar a day. They're hired for the cheap labor, not because nobody else will do the job.

Finding them all would be impossible. Finding the majority of them would be easy. Start at the welfare offices and farms. Offer rewards for employers to turn them in, and prison time for hiding them. Hell, hold a rally against illegal immigration. They show up in droves to protest those. You could do a few in each state before they catch on. :D

....yeah

and you're never planning on eating in a restaurant in California, are you? or buying groceries from a supermarket? getting a carwash?

sweatshop labor and picking fruit for a dollar a day.... classic

So you have no real rebuttal then?

No evidence that our economy will suffer greatly if they're deported?

I thought not. :)

So you have no real rebuttal then?

No evidence that our economy will suffer greatly if they're deported?

I thought not. :)

What did employers do before the invention of illegal immigrant labor?

What did employers do before the invention of illegal immigrant labor?
Paid a decent wage?

Paid a decent wage?

Oh. So there are people here who are against this? I wonder why.

jesus has the right immigration plan

That was all before Jesus's time.

McCain is right. :nice:

link (http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/breaking/101905AZ_McCain_Immigration.php)

Any plan that would deport illegal immigrants before allowing them to apply for a guest worker program is unrealistic, said McCain, R-Ariz., who has introduced a temporary worker bill with Kennedy.

"Somebody is going to have to explain how that is workable," McCain said of a bill that would deport illegal immigrants. "My friends, that's not what the lady who holds the lamp beside the golden door is all about."immigration = statism

Although now that he's invoked the sacred imagery of the statue of liberty, I'm sure money and power aren't influencing factors at all, and this is purely a humanitarian decision.

http://smiliesftw.com/!/crossjerk.gif

....yeah

and you're never planning on eating in a restaurant in California, are you? or buying groceries from a supermarket? getting a carwash?

sweatshop labor and picking fruit for a dollar a day.... classicyou've never been to another country where they don't need to import their third world working class, have you?

the liberal ignorance in this thread is alarming

1) to believe the politicians, on the very face of it, that the mass immigration being dictated by the corporations must be tolerated because slogans such as 'a nation of immigrants' and other banners of group think have never failed us in the past...

2) just because something is the prevailing political force (i.e. third world working class), that's the only paradigm in which the world works.

All I can say is the reasons you give for doing so are the reasons the Russians gave when putting up the Berlin Wall ,which became a symbol of evil to the free West.


Plus,you know how much money it would take to put a wall up [North and South borders] from coast to coast?

Not to mention how much it would cost for 24 hour per day guards etc.?


Not true. The Berlin was built to keep people in. No one wanted to get in that place. Over 2000 East German soldiers and policeman defected to the West, and around 215 Easterners DIED trying to escape. Most were shot, some tripped land mines, or fell to their deaths from atop buildings.

The iron curtian was a prison wall. A border wall is intended to keep people out. It's not like we don't have any walls already either. No one minded when we built those, but if we finish the job, we're somehow inhuman. I guess people would rather hire dirt cheap labor than remain soverign.

This is typical of McAin. he's the darling of the media, and Americans think that whatever he says is gospel. He should quit the party and become a Democrat, because that's what he is at heart.

This notion of "guest" workers is bogus too. Guests are invited. They don't break the law to come visit.

Not true. The Berlin was built to keep people in. No one wanted to get in that place. Over 2000 East German soldiers and policeman defected to the West, and around 215 Easterners DIED trying to escape. Most were shot, some tripped land mines, or fell to their deaths from atop buildings.

The iron curtian was a prison wall. A border wall is intended to keep people out. It's not like we don't have any walls already either. No one minded when we built those, but if we finish the job, we're somehow inhuman. I guess people would rather hire dirt cheap labor than remain soverign.

This is typical of McAin. he's the darling of the media, and Americans think that whatever he says is gospel. He should quit the party and become a Democrat, because that's what he is at heart.

This notion of "guest" workers is bogus too. Guests are invited. They don't break the law to come visit.the muslims rioting in france and germany were once considered 'guests' as well.

this is just another attempt by politicians to define the problem out of existence, and the same moronic liberals who back this horse because its the 'anti-xenophobic' and 'tolerant' thing to do.

the muslims rioting in france and germany were once considered 'guests' as well.

this is just another attempt by politicians to define the problem out of existence, and the same moronic liberals who back this horse because its the 'anti-xenophobic' and 'tolerant' thing to do.

They do so at their own peril.

I read an article yesterday which made an excellent case for stopp ALL immigration for a while. I didn't realize it, but lots of countries don't allow it, haven't for years, and they do just fine.

Western Europe is well on it's way to becoming the new Middle East. The demographics show that it's practically a mathematical certianty at this point, due to declining birth rates of Europeans, as oppopsed to the high birth rates of immigrants. Then the leaders wonder why they're having all of these problems. But, those of us who point out what IS are labeled as bigots.

Oh well, I guess that makes me a bigot , but at least I speak the truth. The leaders are pounding sand up everyones a**'s.

http://www.rense.com/general69/stopallimmigration.htm

They do so at their own peril.

I read an article yesterday which made an excellent case for stopp ALL immigration for a while. I didn't realize it, but lots of countries don't allow it, haven't for years, and they do just fine.

Western Europe is well on it's way to becoming the new Middle East. The demographics show that it's practically a mathematical certianty at this point, due to declining birth rates of Europeans, as oppopsed to the high birth rates of immigrants. Then the leaders wonder why they're having all of these problems. But, those of us who point out what IS are labeled as bigots.

Oh well, I guess that makes me a bigot , but at least I speak the truth. The leaders are pounding sand up everyones a**'s.

http://www.rense.com/general69/stopallimmigration.htmthis is obvious, but seriously, why can't we all graduate beyond this level? Have we just become numb to regular reports of jihadists threatening violence in their host European countries or race riots or lawless ghettoes, or out of control crime rates?

For the life of me I can't figure out what kind of dogma it is that the liberals are trying to defend. Not only do they support mass migration, but they prefer the volatile third world variety, and their statement of faith seems to be "immigration is a good thing", minus any critical thinking. full stop.

This is their religion. No matter how obvious it is that such a trend is untenable, even if it feeds into the 'social security pyramid' they refuse to admit that the system is flawed, and that the government had ZERO INTENTION of paying back the wages they garnered from you in the first place. they were stupid enough to believe that the government was just holding onto their money for 'safe keeping'.

Unless we can grow our population by a factor of six for every retiring generation of workers or maybe if we just import the subcontinent of India, maybe things will be all rosey?

MORONS, wake up. Social Security was a scam used to gut your wealth. unlimited and volatile immigration is done for the purpose of statism and building a police state, NOT FOR HUMANITARIAN REASONS.

The 'Reconquista' mission of the La Razas is being openly funded by congress. Once again, i'm dumb founded at how these people can see that Iraq was a fraud, but pull the hear no evil, see no evil routine when it comes to the deliberate destruction of the middle class and society when it comes to mass third world immigration. i guess their handlers did an excellent job.

I would bail out Social Security this very day if I could. I could get a much better rate of return on all of the money I've dumped into that congressional piggy bank for the past 27 years. Even if that money was placed in a simple passbbok savings account, the return would be at least two per cent, which is DOUBLE the SS rate. With compounded interest over 40+ years of work, I would have a nice chunk of money.

Unfortunately, Congress stole the money long ago. Oh, they swear they'll repay it one of these days. The guarantee the full faith and credit of the Government, which is nothing more than more tax revenues, like they used for the savings and loan bailout. Yet, foolish people actually believe that a trust fund exists, with real dollars in it. Nothing could be farther from the truth, and in another 25-30 years, we'll have retirees on the streets in very large numbers. The crying and whining will begin, but it will be too late to fix the Ponzi scheme.

The Presidents privitization idea was the best idea I have heard from government in the last 25 years, but the libs launched a very successful fear campaign based on lies, and killed the idea before it was givena chance. I would have signed up on day one, but we've lost the only shot we ever had at the idea. I just hope that someone else comes along and successfully revives the idea, so that at least my kids may have a chance to CHOOSE how they invest their hard EARNED money.

The rest of us will have to continue throwing our money down another government rathole. Thank you AARP and friends.

Why in the hell can Jojo have an animated gif avatar and I can't!?! :nonono:

Is it because he's a Preminum member?

I would bail out Social Security this very day if I could. I could get a much better rate of return on all of the money I've dumped into that congressional piggy bank for the past 27 years. Even if that money was placed in a simple passbbok savings account, the return would be at least two per cent, which is DOUBLE the SS rate. With compounded interest over 40+ years of work, I would have a nice chunk of money.

Unfortunately, Congress stole the money long ago. Oh, they swear they'll repay it one of these days. The guarantee the full faith and credit of the Government, which is nothing more than more tax revenues, like they used for the savings and loan bailout. Yet, foolish people actually believe that a trust fund exists, with real dollars in it. Nothing could be farther from the truth, and in another 25-30 years, we'll have retirees on the streets in very large numbers. The crying and whining will begin, but it will be too late to fix the Ponzi scheme.

The Presidents privitization idea was the best idea I have heard from government in the last 25 years, but the libs launched a very successful fear campaign based on lies, and killed the idea before it was givena chance. I would have signed up on day one, but we've lost the only shot we ever had at the idea. I just hope that someone else comes along and successfully revives the idea, so that at least my kids may have a chance to CHOOSE how they invest their hard EARNED money.

The rest of us will have to continue throwing our money down another government rathole. Thank you AARP and friends.the best idea is to keep the money that we've earned.

libertarian ftw

Are you saying we should do what Russia did when they erected the Berlin Wall?

The Berlin wall was raised to keep people in.