Wicca/Witchcraft

[Spazola]

I know that alot of people here have different opinions on this subject....so what do you think about it? Do you assume its evil?? If so, what makes you think this??

[Samson]

I know that alot of people here have different opinions on this subject....so what do you think about it? Do you assume its evil?? If so, what makes you think this??

No, it is the oldest, and truest form of "religion."

Christianity is a fad,
Samson

[Spazola]

:nice:

[Dr.Doom]

I dont think its evil but I dont think it works. When I was younger I read about it and tried some stuff did not work for me so I moved on.

[igofast]

I think it's as much a constructed fairy tale as any religion.

[Spazola]

True Witchcraft isin't saying some words and getting what you want. It can only help you do what you need to do....its never instant.

No one has said otherwise, but I figure I should throw it in for the record. Wicca is just a religion....you don't have to preform witchcraft to be a part of it. I've done, I don't know, maybe three spells in my three years of studying Wicca....and thats only because I chose to.

[Red]

you're in bible country too... for shame. :nonono:

[Spazola]

you're in bible country too... for shame. :nonono:
How do you know? :|

[Red]

How do you know? :|
i know all.

[RedLine99]

the only good witch is a sandwich. :D

[No_Brakes]

...Wicca is just a religion....you don't have to preform witchcraft to be a part of it. ...

True, indeed.

I do know a couple of Wiccans, one of whom I'm pretty sure has never casted a spell - at least from what she's said so far in the few times the subject's even come up.

[jojo]

witches can be very romantic

[Red]

witches can be very romantic
:slap:

[jojo]

broom handles are very sexy

[jojo]

cauldrons are like big hot tubs

*goes away*

[Spazola]

:rolleyes:

There aren't many people here who are willing to debate this topic in a mature way, apparently....its disappointing :(

[oki]

my aunty is a wiccan highpriest. shes not evil at all. a little weird, yes.

[CowPunk]

Just to begin with, what I was discussing was witchcraft, not Wicca, and the two aren't synonymous.

When you cast a spell, you're invoking magic, and that's about power. It doesn't matter whether it's for power over others, the environment, space & time, or even yourself. It's still about power.

That isn't true about the aspects of Wicca that aren't related to invoking magic

[oki]

Just to begin with, what I was discussing was witchcraft, not Wicca, and the two aren't synonymous.

When you cast a spell, you're invoking magic, and that's about power. It doesn't matter whether it's for power over others, the environment, space & time, or even yourself. It's still about power.

That isn't true about the aspects of Wicca that aren't related to invoking magiccasting a spell, as wiccans do, is the same thing as prayer and asking god to do it.

[CowPunk]

That can be a form of assumption of power as well.

[Gibson]

:eek3::eek3:

[oki]

That can be a form of assumption of power as well.
true. its not nessesairily a bad thing, I think. empowering yourself to face life is important.

[CowPunk]

As I said in the other thread, power corrupts. I believe that true spirituality is about love and not power, or at least the power of love, and not the love of power.

[Bobert]

I'm not crazy, but I think I have done magic. :eek: :eek3: Go ahead and laugh, but there is no way an unplugged T.V. comes on bu itself.

[Šñøü†ê®]

I know that alot of people here have different opinions on this subject....so what do you think about it? Do you assume its evil?? If so, what makes you think this??

I am usually willing to read and understand what DA member Tala Hotyk has to say on the subject since he seemed very knowledgable, but there much sillier than a youngster thinking that they have special powers because they read it in Harry Potter or whatever. Believing in pop magic is simply ignorance that can cross into the realm of insanity.

As Paracelsus wrote hundreds of years ago, "the exercise of true magic does not require any ceremonies or conjurations, or the making of circles or signs..." He says that in essense, this sort of thing is "perverted faith." He goes on to explain some of the most powerful poisons for true old fashioned witchcraft, not the new age "pop" stuff, is menstral blood. :P

[Bobert]

I believe in the unexplained. Noone will change that.

I just think at times, people go overboard.

[Šñøü†ê®]

Psychic phenonema has nothing to do with "witchcraft."

[Bobert]

Psychic phenonema has nothing to do with "witchcraft."

I actually think they are the same thing. To do "Witchcraft" you would need to be psycic.

This is going on my opinion though.

[Samson]

As I said in the other thread, power corrupts. I believe that true spirituality is about love and not power, or at least the power of love, and not the love of power.

BAH!

Embrase the Dark Side of The Force, young CowPunk/Skywalker!!

[Šñøü†ê®]

I actually think they are the same thing. To do "Witchcraft" you would need to be psycic.

No, they are totally different things.


This is going on my opinion though.

Well now you know better.

[Bobert]

No, they are totally different things.
Well now you know better.

That's what you think buddy....

[86Dùde]

Pagans and satan worshippers will burn extra hot.

[No_Brakes]

... I believe that true spirituality is about love and not power, or at least the power of love, and not the love of power.

Well said.

[Bobert]

I believe that too.

[CowPunk]

BAH!

Embrase the Dark Side of The Force, young CowPunk/Skywalker!!
- I'm older than you are, Sam. :rolleyes:

[No_Brakes]

But young at heart, no?

[Bobert]

Ok, so i don't have to say this a lot, I believe anything with hard enough proof, and I agree with.

[CowPunk]

If that's synonymous with "developmentally retarded," according to my kids (and Spaz).

[jack_boot]

Who's that guy who actually has a bachelor's degree in Magick? Bonewitz? P.E.I. Bonewitz? I have his book somewhere.

A degree signed by Ronald Reagan, btw, when he was governor of California, may he rest in peace.

[Bobert]

Most people think magic is the BOOM-BOOM you see in the movies, and T.V. My magic is almost regular beside that. Regular everyday things can be magic. You just can't see or believe it.

[Spazola]

Just to begin with, what I was discussing was witchcraft, not Wicca, and the two aren't synonymous.

When you cast a spell, you're invoking magic, and that's about power. It doesn't matter whether it's for power over others, the environment, space & time, or even yourself. It's still about power.

That isn't true about the aspects of Wicca that aren't related to invoking magic

I know. I said, above, that you don't have to do magick to be a witch. :)

casting a spell, as wiccans do, is the same thing as prayer and asking god to do it.
:nice:


That can be a form of assumption of power as well.
It CAN, but it dosen't always. Controled witches, like myself, who know the limits can do magick without becoming overly confident in the new found power of prayer.

I am usually willing to read and understand what DA member Tala Hotyk has to say on the subject since he seemed very knowledgable, but there much sillier than a youngster thinking that they have special powers because they read it in Harry Potter or whatever. Believing in pop magic is simply ignorance that can cross into the realm of insanity.

Believe what you want, but witchcraft has nothing to do with waving a wand and stunning someone, or flying on a broom. As Oki said, it is a form of prayer.


I actually think they are the same thing. To do "Witchcraft" you would need to be psycic.

Wrong--all you need to do witchcraft is knowledge of what your doing, and faith.



Pagans and satan worshippers will burn extra hot.
Wiccans do not worship Satan, despite common belief. We believe that the God, Goddess, and nature are all connected and sacred. The Wiccan Rede is, in exact wording:"And Ye harm none, do what ye will." In other words, we can do whatever, as long as we aren't using magick against anyone. :)

[Bobert]

Wrong--all you need to do witchcraft is knowledge of what your doing, and faith.

The way my word psycic means is actually right.
Psycic is praying, I just didn't want to be ovely contreversial.

[Spazola]

The way my word psycic means is actually right.
Psycic is praying, I just didn't want to be ovely contreversial.
Being psychic and being a witch are NOT the same thing, and never will be.

[CowPunk]

They're both based on messin' with the Universal Mind Force, whether they realize it or not.


It CAN, but it dosen't always. Controled witches, like myself, who know the limits can do magick without becoming overly confident in the new found power of prayer.
I disagree, but, of course, it's a matter of opinion.

[86Dùde]

Wiccans do not worship Satan, despite common belief. We believe that the God, Goddess, and nature are all connected and sacred. The Wiccan Rede is, in exact wording:"And Ye harm none, do what ye will." In other words, we can do whatever, as long as we aren't using magick against anyone. :)

As nice as that seems, it's still pagan, and you're still screwed unless of course you're a wiccan and know Christ.

[Spazola]

I disagree, but, of course, it's a matter of opinion.
You're generalizing. How many people do you actually personaly know who preform magick?

I know three, not including myself. They all have a realistic outlook on how magick works, and don't use it frequently.

[Spazola]

As nice as that seems, it's still pagan, and you're still screwed unless of course you're a wiccan and know Christ.
Ah, so this isin't just Wicca. You mean any religion that dosen't worship Christ has doomed its followers.

That makes me feel better. :nice:

[jojo]

I know that alot of people here have different opinions on this subject....so what do you think about it? Do you assume its evil?? If so, what makes you think this??

Well, I just finished showering. It was between lukewarm and cold.

I can't assume it is evil without really seeing things with my own eyes and hearing things with my own ears.

Personally, I think a lot of people walking around as wiccans are really just pissed off at things like being told to go to sunday school or having to listen to parents preach all the while seeing how much fault is in their parents lives. Maybe I'm wrong. At best I think it is entertaining. It's kind of like playing halloween all year long. :|


As I said in the other thread, power corrupts. I believe that true spirituality is about love and not power, or at least the power of love, and not the love of power.

Amen brother. A round of applause for an entirely unscientific answer. :)

[CowPunk]

You're generalizing. How many people do you actually personaly know who preform magick?

I know three, not including myself. They all have a realistic outlook on how magick works, and don't use it frequently.
I have a keen understanding of how the mind forces work, and that's my opinion. Of course, it's just what I think.

[No_Brakes]

They're both based on messin' with the Universal Mind Force, whether they realize it or not. ...


... who know the limits can do magick without becoming overly confident in the new found power of prayer

Which brings up a new thought, or a sub-thought.

The sort of thing mentioned above can happen to anyone regardless of one's faith, wouldn't you say?

[jack_boot]

Looks like he's a Druid, kind of, now:

http://www.neopagan.net/Contents.html

Cyberhenge.

[Dr.Doom]

The only power I think is even remotely true are the unexplained telekenisis, ESP. I think if we learn to concentrate and learn to use all of our brain power humans can be cpable of enourmous power.

[Dr.Doom]

Well, I just finished showering. It was between lukewarm and cold.

I can't assume it is evil without really seeing things with my own eyes and hearing things with my own ears.

Personally, I think a lot of people walking around as wiccans are really just pissed off at things like being told to go to sunday school or having to listen to parents preach all the while seeing how much fault is in their parents lives. Maybe I'm wrong. At best I think it is entertaining. It's kind of like playing halloween all year long. :|




Amen brother. A round of applause for an entirely unscientific answer. :)
I play Halloween all year long and I dont need witch craft or anything else LOL

[No_Brakes]

...I think if we learn to concentrate and learn to use all of our brain power humans can be cpable of enourmous power.

I wouldn't dispute that at all, Dr.Doom.

Question is, can they use all that power wisely?

[Dr.Doom]

I think only a select few in this world can reach that so hopefuly the power would fall into the right hands. Think of the Spiderman quote "with great power comes great responsibility"

[Šñøü†ê®]

Believe what you want, but witchcraft has nothing to do with waving a wand and stunning someone, or flying on a broom. As Oki said, it is a form of prayer.

You apparently ignored this...


As Paracelsus wrote hundreds of years ago, "the exercise of true magic does not require any ceremonies or conjurations, or the making of circles or signs..." He says that in essense, this sort of thing is "perverted faith." He goes on to explain some of the most powerful poisons for true old fashioned witchcraft, not the new age "pop" stuff, is menstral blood.

He goes on to say that "Christ and the prophets and the apostles had magical powers...acquired by their holiness." They were able to heal the sick, etc.

As Cowpunk indicates, Paracelsus states that the Universal Subconscious Mind is the underlying explanation for psychic phenemena, and even circumstances in life that are a function of individual minds.

What is most idiotic about new age "witchcraft" is that the starting point of real magic is knowledge, the first thing being a thorough understanding of natural science. Faith can then intelligently be built upon the foundation of knowledge. But if someone has faith based on ignorance, then you have your average, new age, "pop" witch I guess. :p

Spazola, Paracelsus also describes some of the more grotesque ingredients for evil purposes. When you think you do spells are they generally for positive or negative purposes?

[Dr.Doom]

bottom line it doesn't work....move on

[Rayney]

Pagans and satan worshippers will burn extra hot.

:drool: Crackling.

Wiccans make me want to *icepick*, the fluffy bunny "Lookit me! lookit me! I have a pentacle/gram the size of a dinner plate around my neck! Dont be nasty to me even though Im all up in your face about how Im LOVING and KIND and YOUR GOD DOESNT EXSIST AND HES SEXIST ANYWAY!" get old reallllllllllllllllll fast.

Witchcraft is a-ok.

[jack_boot]

Wicca this year, UFOlogy the next. All part of growing up.

[Dr.Doom]

Wicca this year, UFOlogy the next. All part of growing
up.

The chrisitanity next month :rolleyes:

[jack_boot]

If you read the Doctors of the Church, especially Augustine, you may begin to appreciate the merits of Christianity. Then again, maybe not. Like marxism, it looks good on paper.

Augustine is a tough sell to the MTV crowd, of course. No T-shirts or anything. Still, you can memorize some Latin phrases and wear robes, and that's kinda cool, isn't it?

[Dr.Doom]

If you read the Doctors of the Church, especially Augustine, you may begin to appreciate the merits of Christianity. Then again, maybe not. Like marxism, it looks good on paper.

Augustine is a tough sell to the MTV crowd, of course. No T-shirts or anything. Still, you can memorize some Latin phrases and wear robes, and that's kinda cool, isn't it?

don't be a smarts a*s ALL reliogn is aimed for some personal agenda and power. The only free way is spirituality no book or set of rules can lead you to the devine light you must get there in your own way its not a gruop effort like organized faith, it must be PERSONAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jack_boot]

don't be a smarts a*s [] it must be PERSONAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Alright, alright. Don't read Augustine then. Sheesh.

[kellet]

I'm surprised Pappy&Me hasn't hijacked this thread yet.

Edit: I forgot she's on a News Forum Ban :eek3:

[oki]

wiccan is as diverse as a religon can be. no 2 groups, or covents, have similair rituals. therefore , snouter, you cant just quote somethig somone sias about it, and utake that as what wicca is about.

its very much personal.
and and religon in the world has 'spells'that are supposed to influence life. prayer to a god is exactly the same thing. even hoping for something to happen is the same thing.

[BooRadley]

casting a spell, as wiccans do, is the same thing as prayer and asking god to do it.

Indeed. "God, please let my team win," or whatever, is no different than some spell to give them special strength, or whatever.


I know that alot of people here have different opinions on this subject....so what do you think about it? Do you assume its evil?? If so, what makes you think this??

Just like any other religion, but less organized and less rooted in tradition, so probably not as evil. Sooner or later it will be, though.


I think it's as much a constructed fairy tale as any religion.

I agree, but constructed fairy tales can be powerful if there are people who truely believe in them. They make people feel good, they relieve people's fear of dying, they comfort the lonely and sick, and they give people reasons to kill each other and hate each other.



When you cast a spell, you're invoking magic, and that's about power. It doesn't matter whether it's for power over others, the environment, space & time, or even yourself. It's still about power.


Yeah, but if you're praying, or casting spells, for the right things, then it can be useful. For example, if you're having a hard time letting go of a grudge, praying to Jesus W. Allah, Esq. for the ability to forgive, or casing a spell of forgiveness on yourself, may do the trick. It seems to let people fell like it's out of their hands, which a lot of people need to feel.

Personally, I shun all of it. As religions become more organized and steeped in tradition, they become more dogmatic and therefor more destructive. Neo-wicca, or whatever it may be called, isn't suffering from that yet, but it will be sooner or later, and you'll have people running around in parking lots down South asking people if they believe in Goddess, and screaming at them that they're going to burn in the pit if they say no, just like the Born Again's do.

[Cd.]

I know that alot of people here have different opinions on this subject....so what do you think about it? Do you assume its evil?? If so, what makes you think this??
I see it as a legitimate religion. No better or worse than any other

[Dr.Doom]

I think we should devote one month to being religon free..all this talk of whats right gets boring. sometimes i thnik humanity would be better off without it

[Šñøü†ê®]

Dr.Doom, the problem is that without accumulating knowledge (ie. reading Christian philosophers in this case) one is basing their thoughts regarding the issue on ignorance.

[Mystlet]

Intent can be a powerful thing.
Praying/wishing/ performing a ritual...all the means to the same end.

[Spazola]

Spazola, Paracelsus also describes some of the more grotesque ingredients for evil purposes. When you think you do spells are they generally for positive or negative purposes?

Witches of the Wiccan religion to NOT do spells for negative purposes. I've already posted the Wiccan Rede, which states that we should not harm anyone. Also, there is the three-fold rule....whatever type of energy we send out, will come back to us three times more powerful.

I have preformed very few spells,myself. One to help attract wealth to someones life (on his request), one banishing spell (to banish negativity from myself), and I am about to preform a healing spell tonight. :)

[Šñøü†ê®]

Witches of the Wiccan religion to NOT do spells for negative purposes.

Then they are not real "witches" only make believe "witches."


I've already posted the Wiccan Rede, which states that we should not harm anyone. Also, there is the three-fold rule....whatever type of energy we send out, will come back to us three times more powerful.

The thing is that the Universal Subconscious Mind responds to everyone's energy, thoughts etc. There is nothing special about calling yourself a "witch," your misuse of the term notwithstanding, that qualifies your energy to be any more special than anyone else's.


I have preformed very few spells,myself. One to help attract wealth to someones life (on his request), one banishing spell (to banish negativity from myself), and I am about to preform a healing spell tonight.

I don't want to put you on the spot and ask if your friend won the lottery as a result of your "spells," :p but the Universal Subconscious Mind doesn't create circumstances instantaneously for average people, so the results may not be known for years. In the case of Jesus, he apparently could create the circumstances and results at will instantaneously (ie. water to wine, walking on water, healing the sick, etc.). That is explained by Jesus's complete understanding of the mechanics of all the sub-atomic particles of life.

[Spazola]

Then they are not real "witches" only make believe "witches."
The term "witch" is used to describe followers of the Wiccan religion. Nothing more. :rolleyes:




The thing is that the Universal Subconscious Mind responds to everyone's energy, thoughts etc. There is nothing special about calling yourself a "witch," your misuse of the term notwithstanding, that qualifies your energy to be any more special than anyone else's.
A Wiccan's energy is no different from anyone else's. Anyone can preform Magick....most just choose not to.





I don't want to put you on the spot and ask if your friend won the lottery as a result of your "spells," :p but the Universal Subconscious Mind doesn't create circumstances instantaneously for average people, so the results may not be known for years. In the case of Jesus, he apparently could create the circumstances and results at will instantaneously (ie. water to wine, walking on water, healing the sick, etc.). That is explained by Jesus's complete understanding of the mechanics of all the sub-atomic particles of life.
I've already stated that spells cannot make your life perfect. They can't do anything that you couldn't already do yourself. They can only give you the energy and guidance from the God/ess to help you with your tasks.

[CowPunk]

The term "witch" is used to describe followers of the Wiccan religion. Nothing more. :rolleyes:

When the Bible says, "Suffer not a witch to live?" Followers of Wicca three thousand years before Christ?

[SecretSamadhi]

Witches of the Wiccan religion to NOT do spells for negative purposes. I've already posted the Wiccan Rede, which states that we should not harm anyone. Also, there is the three-fold rule....whatever type of energy we send out, will come back to us three times more powerful.

I have preformed very few spells,myself. One to help attract wealth to someones life (on his request), one banishing spell (to banish negativity from myself), and I am about to preform a healing spell tonight. :)

And she's doing it for ME! :D

I don't know everything about the wiccan religion, but I do know I have leaning towards it.

I am spritually 'single' right now - I believe a mixture of a lot of things, I think to believe in one thing, and one thing only, is limiting yourself to a certain degree.
That's just my 2 cents. :nice:

[RightWingZealot]

No, it is the oldest, and truest form of "religion."

Wicca is NOT old.
It is VERY young. from like the 50's I think.
And while some wiccans claim it is based on ancient druidic religions.. they are really only wishing.
Not a whole lot is known about the ancient celtic religions, as they did not write anything down.

Wicca was basicly Alister Crowley's writings, combined with british/celtic faery tales.

It is a silly religion in my opinion. It seems like the kinda thing I woulda been into when I was still listening to RUSH and playing dungeons and dragons.

I do not believe witchcraft in itself has any power.
I believe withcraft only has power over those who believe in it.

[igofast]

I believe withcraft only has power over those who believe in it.
That's pretty much how I feel.

[Spazola]

The Old Religion
or the Olde Religion, for the truly pretentious

Wiccans use this term a lot to denote the faith that they follow, referring to the religion of Europe before the advent of Christianity.

The problem is there wasn't an organized European religion before Christianity. Each of the cultures dotting that continent possessed their own pantheons, their own stories, their own creation myths and afterlifes. Pick up any book on European mythologies or pre-Christian religions and see for yourself. There are some similarities, the result of occasional interactions between the cultures, but each religion and mythology is its own independent entity. For that matter, you can find similarities between those religions and Christianity too.

The idea of the Old Religion generally centers around the idea of there being a single God and Goddess which everyone just attributed different names too. It is your right to hold this as theological belief, but there is no historical evidence indicating as such.

http://wicca.timerift.net/old.html

RightWing, you would have been into worshiping the God and Goddess,and trying to taking care of the planet? :p

[RightWingZealot]

Not really.
even when I listened to RUSH and played dungeons and dragons, WICCA seemed silly to me.

[Spazola]

Not really.
even when I listened to RUSH and played dungeons and dragons, WICCA seemed silly to me.
What do you think is silly about it, exactly?

Oh, and just to clear up that I was agreeing with you on the how old Wicca is issue....

Wicca is approximately 60 years old. We have adopted certain aspects of older religions - we even invoke some of their gods - but we are not followers of those religions. Judaism and Christianity share an entire Old Testament, not to mention a supreme being, but they're not the same religion either.

http://wicca.timerift.net/origins2.html :)

[CowPunk]

Magic has been practiced in many places & and by many cultures. Wicca, if I'm not mistaken, is primarily nature worship, while many other magic practitioners have actually worshipped evil.

And, yes, black magic can hurt you whether you believe in it or not, just like a loaded revolver can. :|

[Spazola]

Magic has been practiced in many places & and by many cultures. Wicca, if I'm not mistaken, is primarily nature worship, while many other magic practitioners have actually worshipped evil.
This could very much be true....I don't know about all religions. All I'm claiming is that, in Wicca, Magick is only used for good. I have no idea what other people use magic for, and I'm not claiming that I do. All I know is that true followers of the religion have no desire to harm anyone in the form of prayer. :)

[CowPunk]

Unfortunately, that sincere desire notwithstanding still doesn't mean they never do. :(

[Spazola]

Unfortunately, that sincere desire notwithstanding, it still doesn't mean that they never do. :(
Then they probably aren't really following the religion, just the magick.....:shrug:


I'm gonna go get ready for soccer practice. I'll come back and debate with ya'll later. ;)

[AtariTeenageSuicide]

And, yes, black magic can hurt you whether you believe in it or not, just like a loaded revolver can. :|

is that before or after the boogeyman rises from out of the swamp?

[CowPunk]

It doesn't matter how the mental forces are set in motion; once they are, people can get hurt whether the intiator truly practices the religion or not.

[CowPunk]

is that before or after the boogeyman rises from out of the swamp?
Disbelieve me if you wish to. You've got a right.

[Mystlet]

It doesn't matter how the mental forces are set in motion; once they are, people can get hurt whether the intiator truly practices the religion or not.
So if I meditate on, and perform a ritual asking for health to be brought to a loved one, who gets hurt?

And if I go to church & pray for the health of a loved one, how is that any different?

[John R. Sellers]

I know that alot of people here have different opinions on this subject....so what do you think about it? Do you assume its evil??

Nope. As I said B4, Witchcraft itself is not evil. However, it can be used for evil purposes.:

http://www.discussanything.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1106685&postcount=69

[CowPunk]

So if I meditate on, and perform a ritual asking for health to be brought to a loved one, who gets hurt?
- Oftentimes the person, by the karma that's created, and, quite possibly, you. Also, you end up being corrupted by the lefthand path.


And if I go to church & pray for the health of a loved one, how is that any different?
Sometimes it's not.

[RightWingZealot]

And, yes, black magic can hurt you whether you believe in it or not, just like a loaded revolver can

I will have to place that firmly into the "i'll believe it when I see it" category.

[Mystlet]

Sorry Cowpunk, your words are like the smell of manure in my nose. I can see you have a clear dislike for the realm of witchcraft, but yet cannot reasonably explain why, except to keep stating that its 'bad...bad...bad...'
By condemning prayer, you'll soon have another fight on your hands shortly, so I leave you to your battle.

[CowPunk]

Magic isn't "prayer," but prayers to accomplish some specific thing can sometimes have a similar effect.

Spaz asked me what I thought, and that's what I think - power corrupts, and magic is always about power.

When you contact the UMF to accomplish something, no matter how innocent, it changes you in ways you don't realize. It seduces you.

[jojo]

Magic isn't "prayer," but prayers to accomplish some specific thing can sometimes have a similar effect.
Prayer doesn't require accomplishment.

When you contact the UMF to accomplish something, no matter how innocent, it changes you in ways you don't realize. It seduces you.
Thought provoking material sir. I imagine the character of the subject being prayed to makes all the difference in the world. Would you agree?

[CowPunk]

Absolutely, as well as whether they have consent, and so on.


Prayer doesn't require accomplishment.
- That's the primary difference between a prayer & a spell.

[jojo]

there is a theological point here cp

[jack_boot]

And, yes, black magic can hurt you whether you believe in it or not, just like a loaded revolver can. :|

Incredible.

I can understand a 13 year old girl, Cow Punk, but you...?

[CowPunk]

I believe in Eastern religion, so I'm not sure why that'd be surprising.

[jack_boot]

You mean you are open-minded about this kind of thing?

Tell me that's what you mean.

[CowPunk]

I don't believe in the practice of magic - I don't tell others what to do - but I'm very sure it exists.

[oki]

spaz you should read something about sjamanism, which is sort of the word for nature religons worldwide.

[Bobert]

I don't believe in the practice of magic - I don't tell others what to do - but I'm very sure it exists.
I believe that magic can be harnessed and used. For good uses, not just bad.

[jack_boot]

OK.

Hmmmm.

Now....hmmm.

Look, I don't have any doubts about your intellect, Cow Punk, nor question your sanity. But this, I dunno, kinda crashes into me, here.

Surely, you'd care to clarify your terms? We are in the wrong context here in this thread, perhaps that's it?

You mean..."magic"...as in the abstract, right? Rather like speaking of space as ether, something like that?

[Erhnam]

Wicca is a little like Kwanza -- made up nonsense by a bunch of whiny losers that can't help but loathe the fact that the mainstream religion/holiday is not focused directly on them/their values.

[jack_boot]

Wicca is a little like Kwanza -- made up nonsense by a bunch of whiny losers that can't help but loathe the fact that the mainstream religion/holiday is not focused directly on them/their values.

Well, kids will play their games, it's how they learn many valuable things.

And I don't mind these woman-centered, nature type Wiccans, some of that seems a healthy expression, and most of it harmless fun.

But grown men?

[Bobert]

I ready learned all about life I'm going too. The only way to make my life worse is by me dying. I have nothing realy to lose.

[jack_boot]

I ready learned all about life I'm going too. The only way to make my life worse is by me dying. I have nothing realy to lose.

Trust me, the world's your oyster.

You just got some young hormones kicking in right now. Been there.

[Bobert]

nevermind

[Ema]

I used to practice magick I out grew it. *shrugs* I still believe in it, and I'm interested in it but I just don't care enough anymore to follow through.

[Rayney]

The term "witch" is used to describe followers of the Wiccan religion. Nothing more. :rolleyes:



A Wiccan is not necessarily a Witch, and a Witch is not necessarily a Wiccan.


Wicca is NOT old.
It is VERY young. from like the 50's I think.
And while some wiccans claim it is based on ancient druidic religions.. they are really only wishing.


Word to ya mutha :|


I will have to place that firmly into the "i'll believe it when I see it" category.

*Gets out Voodoo doll of Jason...* Do you feel that? :P

[Spazola]

- Oftentimes the person, by the karma that's created, and, quite possibly, you. Also, you end up being corrupted by the lefthand path.
Isin't karma when whatever you send out comes back? So how come, if you send out bad, bad comes back...and if you send out good, bad comes back? It simply dosen't make sense.



Sometimes it's not.
How is going to a church, lighting a candle and saying "God, please help my friend get well." any different from lighting a candle and saying "Mother Goddess and Father God, elements of the earth, I call apon you to help my friend be healed." :confused:


Wicca is a little like Kwanza -- made up nonsense by a bunch of whiny losers that can't help but loathe the fact that the mainstream religion/holiday is not focused directly on them/their values.
So following a religion because it focuses on your values is whiny? :p

[Bobert]

Isin't karma when whatever you send out comes back? So how come, if you send out bad, bad comes back...and if you send out good, bad comes back? It simply dosen't make sense.

Karma is what comes around goes around. Also, by my meaning, Karma is If you're supposed to know something, then you'll know it, if not, then you wont.

[John R. Sellers]

Karma is what comes around goes around. Also, by my meaning, Karma is If you're supposed to know something, then you'll know it, if not, then you wont.

^ ...... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma

[Bobert]

o.. one last thing... I do believe in reincarnation. I just think when you die, you'll be reborn in a woman's tummy :p . How you lived you're life decides how ong it takes to be reborn.

[oki]

Isin't karma when whatever you send out comes back? So how come, if you send out bad, bad comes back...and if you send out good, bad comes back? It simply dosen't make sense.it makes sense when you think about you telling a lie, and then feeling guilty about it.the guilt is the karma that comes back to you. it will bother you and ruin your pure mindstate.
and same , if you are a bad person for a period in your life, and try to be a better prson in a new period, the thoughts of you as a bad person will bother you later.

[Erhnam]

So following a religion because it focuses on your values is whiny? :p

Pay attention to qualifiers.

[RightWingZealot]

*Gets out Voodoo doll of Jason...* Do you feel that?

did you stick that pin where I think you did?

[Ema]

Wicca is NOT old.
It is VERY young. from like the 50's I think.
And while some wiccans claim it is based on ancient druidic religions.. they are really only wishing.

http://paganwiccan.about.com/od/historywicca/a/ageofwicca.htm

http://paganwiccan.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=paganwiccan&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fshadow.htmlplanet.com%2Fwitchcraft .htm

Paganism is very old, wicca is not. Wicca is considered a new branch off of the pagan religion. Pagan would be a word used in the same context as Christian is, and wicca the same as Baptist.

[Red]

i just can't believe some of you ppl believe in this crap. :P

*unsubscribes from thread*

[John R. Sellers]

:lol: Lemme guess, Red's an Athiest.

[RightWingZealot]

Paganism is very old, wicca is not. Wicca is considered a new branch off of the pagan religion. Pagan would be a word used in the same context as Christian is, and wicca the same as Baptist.

not really, becuase at least Baptists have a bible to bas their beliefs around.
Wiccans claim thier religion is based on pagan Celtic religions, but being that the pagan celts never wrote anything down, we dont really know much about their ancient pagan religions.

So basicly, wiccans make it up.

[Ema]

Prove the bible wasn't just a made up story, or based on popular FALSE beliefs at the time it was written. ;)

All religions are "made up" ;)

[kellet]

Well, kids will play their games, it's how they learn many valuable things.

And I don't mind these woman-centered, nature type Wiccans, some of that seems a healthy expression, and most of it harmless fun.

But grown men?

Normally I wouldn't be sexist about it, but the grown men Wiccans I've known have been downright creepy.

[Bobert]

Prove the bible wasn't just a made up story, or based on popular FALSE beliefs at the time it was written. ;)

All religions are "made up" ;)
re·li·gion
n.

1.
a.Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b.A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2.The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3.A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4.A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=religion

[jack_boot]

I can only conclude from his deafening silence that Cow Punk means what he says quite literally. Black magic. As in the popular meaning of the phrase. Evil forces arising from incantations and spells, spiritual manifestations from the netherworld, and curses.

I took the liberty of selecting a new avatar for my otherwise respected if not beloved adversary. Here ya go:

http://www.uri-geller.com/articles/masterclass/images/spoon-bending_15.jpg

And you'll find the instruction book here...

http://www.randi.org/jr/022803.html

...in case you've misplaced your Necronomicon.

Say hi to Houdini for me.

[jack_boot]

Normally I wouldn't be sexist about it, but the grown men Wiccans I've known have been downright creepy.

In Boot's world, women are expected to be sexy as all get-out.

[John R. Sellers]

re·li·gion
n.

1.
a.Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b.A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2.The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3.A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4.A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=religion

That's just a definition. It doesn't prove anything.

[Bobert]

That's just a definition. It doesn't prove anything.
True...but that is what makes a religon. If you don't have those comoponets, than you don't have a religon. Was that what I tried to prove in the first place or not, I can't tell.

edit: You just need one i think.

[John R. Sellers]

Was that what I tried to prove in the first place...

No, cuz the mere definition of religion is not proof that it ins't "made up" as Ema suggests. In a sense, all religions are made up because we all have our own versions of how to be close to our God(s)/Goddess(s).

[Bobert]

No, cuz the mere definition of religion is not proof that it ins't "made up" as Ema suggests. In a sense, all religions are made up because we all have our own versions of how to be close to our God(s)/Goddess(s).
Oh, yes I agree with you, I just think if a religion has no direction, it will not function, therfore ceasing to exist.

[Dr.Doom]

For the most part its an image thing. "look how differn't and unique iam" type thing while im sure others honestly beleive in it.

Jack Boot didn't you know "there is NO spoon"

[John R. Sellers]

Oh, yes I agree with you, I just think if a religion has no direction, it will not function, therfore ceasing to exist.

No organized religions? Would that be so bad?


Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries,
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You...you may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You...you may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will live as one

-- Imagine by John Lennon

[Bobert]

No organized religions? Would that be so bad?
I don't think so.

Then we'll all live in peace.

[Dr.Doom]

No organized religions? Would that be so bad?



-- Imagine by John Lennon

Johns song is great. It is very true

[John R. Sellers]

Johns song is great. It is very true

Yeah. He was truly a visionary. He was taken from us to early.

[Gibson]

Yeah. He was truly a visionary. He was taken from us to early. Not that I wish anyone dead, but I'm glad he's gone :P Brought nothing but utter nonsense and noise pollution :rolleyes:
Anyone is a "visionary" when they're hopped up on drugs :rolleyes:

[Dr.Doom]

Not that I wish anyone dead, but I'm glad he's gone :P Brought nothing but utter nonsense and noise pollution :rolleyes:
Anyone is a "visionary" when they're hopped up on drugs :rolleyes:

Your Wicked :not:

[Gibson]

Your Wicked :not: I heard that's supposed to be a good show :nice:
http://www.bestshowticketslasvegas.com/images/wicked1.jpg

[John R. Sellers]

Not that I wish anyone dead, but I'm glad he's gone :P Brought nothing but utter nonsense and noise pollution :rolleyes:

Oh, utopia is nonsense?


Anyone is a "visionary" when they're hopped up on drugs :rolleyes:

Do you know this for a fact?

[Gibson]

Oh, utopia is nonsense? Utopia isn't, ask Thomas More. John Lennon was more greater-than-God(if any God), communist, drug-laden nudist colony than Utopia.

Do you know this for a fact? It says so in biographies about him :shrug:

[Rayney]

:lol: Lemme guess, Red's an Athiest.

Red is a filthy Southern Baptist. :p

[Bobert]

What's wrong with Baptists, or Atheists?

[Rayney]

Im making fun of Red.

[John R. Sellers]

Prove it.

[Šñøü†ê®]

Can anyone who thinks they are a witch discuss a "spell" and describe the outcome? :confused:

[Mystlet]

What exactly are you looking for Snouter, actual incantations, astronomical positionings, potions?
These would vary from witch to witch. Some are very by-the-book (to whichever book they use) and some just do their own thing.
The basic idea is to use what forces are available in nature & around you to bring about the expected result.

[RightWingZealot]

Prove the bible wasn't just a made up story, or based on popular FALSE beliefs at the time it was written.

The bible has archeological evidence that backs up some of it. :)

cant say that about wicca. :P

[John R. Sellers]

Prove it.

Maybe I should clarify I was reponding to Gibson's last post.

I need to use the quote button more.

[John R. Sellers]

Can anyone who thinks they are a witch discuss a "spell" and describe the outcome? :confused:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spell_%28paranormal%29

[Gibson]

Maybe I should clarify I was reponding to Gibson's last post.

I need to use the quote button more.

The following year he embarked on his struggle against deportation and the fight for his famous "green card". At the end of a comparatively quiet 1973, Lennon released Mind Games, an album that highlighted problems between him and Yoko. Shortly afterwards, Lennon left for his "lost weekend" and spent many months in Los Angeles in a haze of drugs and alcohol. During a brief sober moment he produced Nilsson's Pussycats. At the end of a dreadful year, Lennon released Walls And Bridges, which contained more marital material and a surprise US number 1, "Whatever Gets You Through The Night", a powerful rocker with Lennon sounding in complete control. Source: http://www.john-lennon.com/bio.htm

[Rayney]

Maybe I should clarify I was reponding to Gibson's last post.

I need to use the quote button more.

:p I was confused for a minute there.

[Spazola]

Can anyone who thinks they are a witch discuss a "spell" and describe the outcome? :confused:
I'm not agruing that all spells will always work....but they can, IMO.

I have asked the God and Godess to remove hostility and anger from myself before....I felt calmer afterwards. It could have just been the time that had passed, I'm not one to decide.Just like with praying, you don't always get what you want. Whoever your higher power is, isin't a wishing well.


cant say that about wicca. :P

Thats because Wiccans don't worship a human from thousands of years ago. We only worship a higher power.

Now if your talking about the history of WITCHCRAFT....I'll be honest, I don't know much about that. But I know that for many years, maybe hundreds, people have used herbs and plants from the earth to heal. To many Wiccans, this is a way of preforming magic.

[RightWingZealot]

Thats because Wiccans don't worship a human from thousands of years ago. We only worship a higher power.

you have a terrible misunderstanding of christianity.


But I know that for many years, maybe hundreds, people have used herbs and plants from the earth to heal.

wow.. maybe even HUNDRED?! hoooowwee! that IS a long time!

[Java_man]

Women who were considered witches in the middle ages often were herbalists ... since the church outlawed herbal medicine (due to the pagan roots) they were often arrested by the church.

The godly and loving Catholic Church helped out these poor misguided souls by burning them alive on stakes by the thousands in Europe


Herbal medicine predates written history and agriculture ... it is the oldest profession

[Ema]

you have a terrible misunderstanding of christianity.



wow.. maybe even HUNDRED?! hoooowwee! that IS a long time!

You need to stop being so rude.

And no, not hundreds. Since the start of time people have been using plants to heal.

[Šñøü†ê®]

Before I comment on the lack of answers from the kids who think they are teenage witches, does anyone know the origins of the word Wicca?

I checked my Encyclopedia Brittanica that is 40 years old and it makes no reference of the term. Obviously, it is a new age cult variation. In fact, even internet sources indicate it is no more than 50 years old. Interesting that it coincides with the advent of other subversive cults like feminism. :hmm:

[John R. Sellers]

you have a terrible misunderstanding of christianity.

Look, the simple fact is that Jesus died on the cross, suggesting that he was human. He was only able to rise from the dead thru the power of Jehovah.

[John R. Sellers]

does anyone know the origins of the word Wicca?



Gerald Gardner is credited with stating "***** stole my broom", although he himself used the spelling Wica repeatedly in his published work of 1954. The spelling "Wicca" is now used almost exclusively, (Seax-Wica being the only major use of the four-letter spelling).

In Old English, wicca meant shaman, see Völva, male witch, or warlock. Some contend that the term wicca is related to Old English witan, meaning wise man or counselor, but this is widely rejected by language scholars as false etymology. Nonetheless, Wicca is often called the "Craft of the wise" as a result of this misconception. In actuality the word "Wicca" did not come into use until Gerald Gardner published his works. This is why many witches believe that in order to class oneself as a "Wiccan" it would be necessary to have been initiated into a practising Gardenerian, Alexandrian, etc coven.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca

[Šñøü†ê®]

In actuality the word "Wicca" did not come into use until Gerald Gardner published his works.

The term Wicca is not in my 1828 dictionary either of course. But that is interesting. So the feminist movement basically took this clown's BS and made a cult out of it by getting gullible teens into it. :jester:

Same phenomena occurs with the Harry Potter fad I suppose. Teens struggling to find power in a world they subconsciously feel overcome by; not realizing that knowledge is the starting point of power and playing with Wicca only keeps them in the dark.

[jojo]

Same phenomena occurs with the Harry Potter fad I suppose. Teens struggling to find power in a world they subconsciously feel overcome by; not realizing that knowledge is the starting point of power and playing with Wicca only keeps them in the dark.

An escape. :nice:

[Ema]

The term Wicca is not in my 1828 dictionary either of course. But that is interesting. So the feminist movement basically took this clown's BS and made a cult out of it by getting gullible teens into it. :jester:

Same phenomena occurs with the Harry Potter fad I suppose. Teens struggling to find power in a world they subconsciously feel overcome by; not realizing that knowledge is the starting point of power and playing with Wicca only keeps them in the dark.

Don't get your panties up in a bunch Snouter. I think you really believe in wicca. And you're just scared to admit it. :p Oh, and FYI I know plently of adults that are interested in this religion.

Being wiccan is no more absurd than being a christian. ;)

[Spazola]

you have a terrible misunderstanding of christianity.
Didn't in the bible, god state that, to be loved, you have to worship him and his son? Do christians not believe that Jesus is the son of god?

I wasn't saying anything bad about christanity. All I was saying is that, of course there is no proof for the Wicca religion....we don't worship a human. JUST the God and Goddess.




wow.. maybe even HUNDRED?! hoooowwee! that IS a long time!
Heres a good idea, be rude to the kid who AGREED that Wicca was not old. :rolleyes:

. So the feminist movement basically took this clown's BS and made a cult out of it by getting gullible teens into it. :jester:
Actually, Wicca isin't about feminism. People just make it out to be that way....I'll post an article and link in a moment.


Same phenomena occurs with the Harry Potter fad I suppose. Teens struggling to find power in a world they subconsciously feel overcome by; not realizing that knowledge is the starting point of power and playing with Wicca only keeps them in the dark.
Playing with Witchcraft is what silly teenagers do when their bored. Worshiping a God and Goddess and the elements is not.
WICCA is a RELIGION. SOME Wiccans do use Witchcraft, but they are NOT always linked.

[Spazola]

Oh, and FYI I know plently of adults that are interested in this religion.

Same here. I found out about the religion through friends, but my grandmother actually tought me most of what I know.


Feminism
And why it has nothing to do with us

Feminism is a political view. Wicca is a religion. You can certainly be both a Wiccan and a feminist, but you can just as easily be only one or the other or neither. Wicca is NOT about empowering women or taking back the power men supposedly stole. That's sexist. Wicca is about equality and balance. Men and women are exactly equal before the God and Goddess. Management kindly asks that you keep your politics off of my religion. Thank you.
http://wicca.timerift.net/feminism.html

[jojo]

Don't get your panties up in a bunch Snouter.

Snouter does not wear panties. :|

[Spazola]

Snouter does not wear panties. :|
:eek3:

TMI. :P

[Mystlet]

Snouter goes commando? :P

[No_Brakes]

:lol: :rofl: :bowrofl:

(I'm not laughing at anyone- I'm laughing because myst beat me to the question!)

[Šñøü†ê®]

Don't get your panties up in a bunch Snouter. I think you really believe in wicca. And you're just scared to admit it.

You are the one getting your panties in a bunch. I am merely exposing reality. And why would think I believe in some absurdity created by some dude 50 years ago? That is either projecting or you are crazy.


Being wiccan is no more absurd than being a christian.

How can you make a judgement about Christianity in relation to a cult made up 50 years ago when you apparently don't have an understanding of the Bible and Chrisitanity from an historical perspective?


Didn't in the bible, god state that, to be loved, you have to worship him and his son?

Please post the verse that says that.


Playing with Witchcraft is what silly teenagers do when their bored.

Apparently.


Worshiping a God and Goddess and the elements is not.

And you worship these entities how?


WICCA is a RELIGION. SOME Wiccans do use Witchcraft, but they are NOT always linked.

A religion must have some consistant beliefs. It sounds like this cult does not. :confused:

[Spazola]

That is either projecting or you are crazy.
May I please ask you to not bait in my thread? Thank you. :)



How can you make a judgement about Christianity in relation to a cult made up 50 years ago when you apparently don't have an understanding of the Bible and Chrisitanity from an historical perspective?
Wicca is not a cult. It is a religion. And why does the age matter so much? (just wondering)




Please post the verse that says that.
I was asking, not saying that it was true. But I'm looking through my parents bible right now to see if I can find one. :nice:



And you worship these entities how?
One way is through witchcraft, but as I have said, not all Wiccans do this. We worship through simply praying, aknowledging their existince, and trying to take care of the earth. :)

[Ema]

How can you make a judgement about Christianity in relation to a cult made up 50 years ago when you apparently don't have an understanding of the Bible and Chrisitanity from an historical perspective?

I've been studying the christian religion for 8 years now. Why do you assume I have no understanding of the bible from a historical perspective? :hmm:

[Spazola]

For God so loved the world,that he gave his only begotton Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
The whole chapter says similar things. I was a bit off, but this is what I was thinking of. :)

[Bobert]

I don't remember where in the bible, but is says to fear
(love) the lord, and you will be saved.

I red the bible five times(literalrly) so I should know the verse. It's in The first part in the old testament.

[Šñøü†ê®]

May I please ask you to not bait in my thread? Thank you.

Analysis is not baiting and it was in fact a response to a bait, which in most cases is how discussions function on the net.


Wicca is not a cult. It is a religion. And why does the age matter so much? (just wondering)

No it is a cult.


I was asking, not saying that it was true. But I'm looking through my parents bible right now to see if I can find one.

Don't waste your time unless you have some background in the Bible as literature. Your best bet for searching a verse is to use a concordance which should be available on the net.

For example, type the word "worship" into a concordance and you will get among other verses, this...


Exod 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God...

Jesus also prays to God. He told his disciples to pray to God in his name, because of the significant thing he does on their and all believers' behalf; paying the price for sin.


One way is through witchcraft, but as I have said, not all Wiccans do this. We worship through simply praying, aknowledging their existince, and trying to take care of the earth.

I get the feeling you are really not sure what Wiccans are. :(

The cult seems to have been officially set down their 13 rules in the early 1970's when cults were quite common.


8. Calling oneself ‘Witch’ does not make a Witch – but neither does heredity itself, nor the collecting of titles, degrees and initiations. A Witch seek to control the forces within her/himself that make life possible in order to live wisely and without harm to others and in harmony with nature.

This seems like both a denial and confirmation that the cult is comprised of people who fancy themselves as "witches."


10.Our only animosity towards Christianity, or towards any other religion or philosophy of life, is to the extent that its institutions have claimed to be ‘the only way’ and have sought to deny freedom to others and to suppress other ways of religious practice and belief.

Why do they openly admit an anti-Christian mindset? What is this cult's view of other religions who are not as liberal as Christianity is by nature?


11. As American Witches, we are not threatened by debates on the history of the craft, the origins of various terms, the legitimacy of various aspects of different traditions. We are concerned with our present and our future.

Here they confirm that they participate an behavior associated with traditional witchcraft, which is more accurately described as sorcery when we examine it closely. So this cult clearly tries to decieve from the start back some 30 years ago.

[Spazola]

No it is a cult.
Just as much as any other religion is a "cult".




Don't waste your time unless you have some background in the Bible as literature. Your best bet for searching a verse is to use a concordance which should be available on the net.
I was raised as a Christian....I think thats a bit of backround.

And whats wrong with using the actual bible instead of the internet? What are you afraid I'll find?


I get the feeling you are really not sure what Wiccans are. :(
Wiccans are the followers of the religion, Wicca. :)


The cult seems to have been officially set down their 13 rules in the early 1970's when cults were quite common.
These are wrong. We don't have actual rules...only the Rede.


Witches do not believe that true morality consists of observing a list of thou-shalt-nots. Their morality can be summed up in one sentence, "Do what you will, so long as it harms none." This does not mean, however, that witches are pacifists. They say that to allow wrong to flourish unchecked is not 'harming none'. On the contrary, it is harming everybody.
http://wicca.timerift.net/rede.html





This seems like both a denial and confirmation that the cult is comprised of people who fancy themselves as "witches."
I may not be a witch, it depends how you use the term....But I am Wiccan. I follow the religion of Wicca. Thats all I know.




Why do they openly admit an anti-Christian mindset? What is this cult's view of other religions who are not as liberal as Christianity is by nature?
Where is your source?

Most Wiccans believe that we should not "bash" other religions. We should try and accept that everyone has there own beliefs, and that ours aren't necessarily the right ones.

[No_Brakes]

Nothing's wrong with it, Spaz.

Most, but not all, Bibles have a concordance in the back of the book.

[jack_boot]

Young ladies, surely you understand Snouter is genuinely concerned. He sounds exasperated but this topic will have that effect.

There is far, far more to the Christian theology than mere loyalty to one idol as opposed to another. You cannot compare a philosophy and structure resulting from 1500 years of intense and rigorous examination, like Christianity, to a pastime like Wicca.

Fascinating and fun as it might be, Wicca, magic, neo-Druidism, and all the rest are merely distractions. At the best, I'll admit, Aleister Crowley can be revealing and thought-provoking, but how many of you have read any Crowley? And how does he compare to Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Buddha, or for that matter Cotton Mather?

Read these great thinkers if you seek to understand hidden power, to better contemplate whatever there might be beyond our poor science. There you will find what light we have - and not on some internet page of chants or booklet of spells.

[John R. Sellers]

Snouter, why can't you just let people believe what they want?

[Šñøü†ê®]

Spazola, I was merely trying to help you. Anyone unfamiliar with the Bible as literature will must likely not find anything by flipping through the pages. As No_Brakes pointed out, if your Bible has a concordance in the back, use that. There are other more detailed searche methods such as the Englishman's search that can find even more info. This is were computer technology makes it incredibly easy to find relevent verses.

Good points jack_boot. I would be curious if any of the kids who call themselves Wiccan can answer your questions or even have any idea who they individuals are. :(

John R. Sellers, they can believe what they want, but I thought it would be nice if they choose reality over fantasy.

Just out of curiosity, how many people believe in Wiccaism and also believe Pit Bulls are not more dangerous than other dogs?

[jojo]

this thread is finally getting good

[John R. Sellers]

Spazola, I was merely trying to help you. Anyone unfamiliar with the Bible as literature will must likely not find anything by flipping through the pages. As No_Brakes pointed out, if your Bible has a concordance in the back, use that. There are other more detailed searche methods such as the Englishman's search that can find even more info. This is were computer technology makes it incredibly easy to find relevent verses.

Good points jack_boot. I would be curious if any of the kids who call themselves Wiccan can answer your questions or even have any idea who they individuals are. :(

John R. Sellers, they can believe what they want, but I thought it would be nice if they choose reality over fantasy.

If you want some answers, I suggest you ask an expert (http://www.allexperts.com/getExpert.asp?Category=3207).

You also might wanna re-read the article on Wicca @ "Wicca"pedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca) carefully.

[Dr.Doom]

Spazola, I was merely trying to help you. Anyone unfamiliar with the Bible as literature will must likely not find anything by flipping through the pages. As No_Brakes pointed out, if your Bible has a concordance in the back, use that. There are other more detailed searche methods such as the Englishman's search that can find even more info. This is were computer technology makes it incredibly easy to find relevent verses.

Good points jack_boot. I would be curious if any of the kids who call themselves Wiccan can answer your questions or even have any idea who they individuals are. :(

John R. Sellers, they can believe what they want, but I thought it would be nice if they choose reality over fantasy.

Just out of curiosity, how many people believe in Wiccaism and also believe Pit Bulls are not more dangerous than other dogs?

actually ALL religon is nothing more than blind faith NO oNE knows the truth or what the after life is or if there is one at all. I find it ignorant to think someone "knows" what happens when you die or what god or gods exist. We can only go by our experience and what people personaly bleive is true there is no documented fact yet.

[I don't know]

I heard the Wiccans started out as a feminist group who called themselves whiches in order to scare conservatives.

[Bobert]

Wic·ca (wk)
n.
1. A polytheistic Neo-Pagan nature religion inspired by various pre-Christian western European beliefs, whose central deity is a mother goddess and which includes the use of herbal magic and benign witchcraft.
2. A group or community of believers or followers of this religion.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Wicca

[John R. Sellers]

mother goddess

Hecate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hecate)

[Rayney]

These are wrong. We don't have actual rules...only the Rede.


http://wicca.timerift.net/rede.html



What about othe 161 laws?

[Rayney]

Hecate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hecate)

The triple Goddess is not just Hecate - theres also Brigid and the Morrigan just as an example.

[SecretSamadhi]

Just out of curiosity, how many people believe in Wiccaism and also believe Pit Bulls are not more dangerous than other dogs?

Me! :nice:

Just for the record, I'm 32. And I was raised Roman Catholic. Currently I am 'without' religion. But I'll tell you what..... the only one that feels 'right' to me, is Wiccan. No matter where it came from , their belief structure is something I like, so far.

I think the important part of believing in a higher power is to remember to give thanks, and be humble - if not, we'd all think we were Gods. :p

[Desert_jackal]

I believe that pit bulls are cutie pies :)

And I'm not opposed to Wicca. I don't practice it, but I don't see anything wrong with it.

[Ironweed]

Witches of the Wiccan religion to NOT do spells for negative purposes.

I sincerely doubt they do much of anything, save perhaps entertain themselves.


I've already posted the Wiccan Rede, which states that we should not harm anyone. Also, there is the three-fold rule....whatever type of energy we send out, will come back to us three times more powerful.

That last statement should be empirically verifiable, shouldn't it?


I have preformed very few spells,myself. One to help attract wealth to someones life (on his request), one banishing spell (to banish negativity from myself), and I am about to preform a healing spell tonight. :)

Do you plan on taking up James Randi's challenge?

http://www.randi.org/research/faq.html

If you can do what you claim, you should be able to pick up a cool million, no problem. :rolleyes:

[Spazola]

actually ALL religon is nothing more than blind faith
Yes, this is true. If you believe in your religion based on PROOF, then its not your "faith", is it?

I heard the Wiccans started out as a feminist group who called themselves whiches in order to scare conservatives.
I do need to study more on the history on Wicca more....I don't want to tell you your wrong when I don't know for sure myself. All I know is that, in the Wicca I follow, feminism is not part of it.

I sincerely doubt they do much of anything, save perhaps entertain themselves.
As many other people believe as well.



Do you plan on taking up James Randi's challenge?

http://www.randi.org/research/faq.html

If you can do what you claim, you should be able to pick up a cool million, no problem. :rolleyes:
Can you please tell me exactly what I ever "claimed" I can do?

[Šñøü†ê®]

Yes, this is true. If you believe in your religion based on PROOF, then its not your "faith", is it?

So now you don't believe in spells? :confused:


I do need to study more on the history on Wicca more....I don't want to tell you your wrong when I don't know for sure myself. All I know is that, in the Wicca I follow, feminism is not part of it.

IDK's comment was obviously tongue in cheek, but it turns out to be true that the Wiccan Cult was invented about 50 years ago by Gerald Gardner.

[I don't know]

I do need to study more on the history on Wicca more....I don't want to tell you your wrong when I don't know for sure myself. All I know is that, in the Wicca I follow, feminism is not part of it.- Bah, that ruins half the fun. Read and be wise: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianic_Wicca


Many Dianic Wiccans believe (contrary to most but not all opinions in the field of archaeology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology)) that before recorded history there were widespread or universal matriarchy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matriarchy) or matrifocal cultures which worshipped the Goddess, had matrilineal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrilineal) family structures, had social equality between the sexes, and did not practice war. These cultures were slowly supplanted by violent patriarchal groups; the original myths of the Great Mother and goddesses were subsumed into mythology honoring the conquerors and war gods. Dianics point to the work of influential and controversial archaeologist Marija Gimbutas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marija_Gimbutas). Says Utne: "UCLA archaeologist Marija Gimbutas turned historical scholarship on its head in the '70s and 80s with research that depicted peace-loving, co-operation-based Goddess-worshipping societies in ancient Europe-- which were overrun in the Neolithic era by Indo-Europeans who imposed patriarchal order. Gimbutas' vision of an earth-friendly, feminine-centered spirituality has sparked religious awakening; an estimated 400,000 Americans now declare themselves neopagans, and many more with feminist or environmentalist leanings are helping revive Goddess worship." And I didn't talk tounge-in-cheek. One of my history of ideas lecturers was fascinated with the power structure in the massive wiccan movement. She described it as flat, cooperational(not competetive) and completely man-less (i.e. men are allowed, but not in high positions). She might have been wrong on it being the original Wicca, though.

There, that should keep any fundies frequenting the site deprived of sleep for a while :D



edit: let it not be assumed that I agree with them on everything. But the fact that God is supposed to be male is quite telling

[Šñøü†ê®]

And I didn't talk tounge-in-cheek. One of my history of ideas lecturers was fascinated with the power structure in the massive wiccan movement. She described it as flat, cooperational(not competetive) and completely man-less (i.e. men are allowed, but not in high positions)

Wow, as I suspected, that version of Wiccaism is a variation of radical feminism that emerged 30-40 years ago. What a gimmick.

[Ironweed]

Can you please tell me exactly what I ever "claimed" I can do?

You've claimed you can cast spells, and I assume this also means you think they're effective. Hence my reference to the Randi challenge, which seems tailor made for your sort to debunk skeptics. And to pick up a million dollars while you're at it.

Or, are you saying you cast spells that are useless, and that you just enjoy wasting your time doing this sort of thing? If that's the case, I apologize for my previous post. If not, what I said was dead on accurate.

[John R. Sellers]

The triple Goddess is not just Hecate - theres also Brigid and the Morrigan just as an example.

She has many names. I was going by the traditional Wiccan Chant as sung by Inkubus Sukkubus in the song Wyches:


Isis Astarte Diana Hecate Demeter Kali Inanna

[CowPunk]

I can only conclude from his deafening silence that Cow Punk means what he says quite literally. Black magic.
- CowPunk's "deafening silence" has been due to the album release tomorrow he's had to promote, and should not be construed to constitute any kind of statement.

Furthermore, I don't believe there's any division between "black" and "white" magic personally. It's all about power.

[CowPunk]

Surely, you'd care to clarify your terms? We are in the wrong context here in this thread, perhaps that's it?

You mean..."magic"...as in the abstract, right? Rather like speaking of space as ether, something like that?
I mean "magic with a K," or sorcery, witchcraft, etc.

[CowPunk]

Isin't karma when whatever you send out comes back? So how come, if you send out bad, bad comes back...and if you send out good, bad comes back? It simply dosen't make sense.
- IMO, all karma binds you to this world, honey. Good, bad, and neutral. Particularly when it bonds you to the mind forces.


How is going to a church, lighting a candle and saying "God, please help my friend get well." any different from lighting a candle and saying "Mother Goddess and Father God, elements of the earth, I call apon you to help my friend be healed." :confused:

- Because one typically invokes the psychic forces, and the other usually does not. I'm not claiming there's any foolproof dividing point. Sometimes praying for other people without their consent can have the same effect.

[jack_boot]

- CowPunk's "deafening silence" has been due to the album release tomorrow he's had to promote, and should not be construed to constitute any kind of statement.

Furthermore, I don't believe there's any division between "black" and "white" magic personally. It's all about power.

I mean "magic with a K," or sorcery, witchcraft, etc.

I'm clear on that. Any serious insight I'd be happy to hear about it - though please, don't ask me to dust off my old Crowley.

(just in case)

And hey, about the new record, break a leg, man. :nice:

[Erhnam]

*hums twilight zone music*

[CowPunk]

TBH, I'm not really sure what you're asking of me, Jack. If it's questions concerning magick, I'm probably not the best person around to answer them.

And thanks for the well-wishes. :cool:

[Erhnam]

What kind of mahjickque should I utilize to make my IQ grow? How about my weewee?

[CowPunk]

Even magick has its limits. :)

[Ema]

:lol:

[Erhnam]

Even magick has its limits. :)


Benn there, eh?

[CowPunk]

Magic is the only conceivable explanation in my case. :nice:

Nature has its limits, too. :D

[jack_boot]

Gentlemen...

[Ema]

:rofl:

CP you're great. :D

[CowPunk]

:rofl:

CP you're great. :D
- I think you're pretty great too, kid. :)

[Erhnam]

:rofl:

CP you're great. :D
:bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl: :lol: :lol: :lol: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :jester: :jester: :jester: :jester: :jester: :stupid: :stupid: :stupid: :stupid:

[Šñøü†ê®]

We have not yet even clarified what the Wicca Cult is, but let's pretend we did. Now if someone wants to join Wiccaism, what initiation does she have to go through? Are any males allowed? What I mean is, is it a good organization to meet non-lesbian chicks at? :confused:

[Java_man]

We have not yet even clarified what the Wicca Cult is, but let's pretend we did. Now if someone wants to join Wiccaism, what initiation does she have to go through? Are any males allowed? What I mean is, is it a good organization to meet non-lesbian chicks at? :confused:

check this out Snout .... Wicca (http://wiccan.meetup.com/members/?offset=40&sort=ctime&desc=&psize=20)

introducing Demonika Darkling

http://img.meetup.com/photos/member/5/d/f/e/member_444062.jpeg

She even has her own band (http://www.antimatterproductions.com/DarklingMusic.htm)
:nice:

[Šñøü†ê®]

Dude, I checked her website and she and the bass player are major heffers. They scare me. :P The violin player looks okay though. Maybe they should attend more satanic ceremonies and spend less time at McD's.

[RightWingZealot]

Demonika Darkling

one more reason to find wiccans nothing more that silly.

[RightWingZealot]

Now if someone wants to join Wiccaism, what initiation does she have to go through?

It depends upon the group they wish to join.


Are any males allowed?

Yes.

[Spazola]

You've claimed you can cast spells, and I assume this also means you think they're effective. Hence my reference to the Randi challenge, which seems tailor made for your sort to debunk skeptics. And to pick up a million dollars while you're at it.

Or, are you saying you cast spells that are useless, and that you just enjoy wasting your time doing this sort of thing? If that's the case, I apologize for my previous post. If not, what I said was dead on accurate.

I wish you would have read the rest of my posts before accusing me of claiming that I can wiggle my nose and get whatever I want. :rolleyes:

As I have said before, spells are only a way of asking the God and Goddess for help, just like praying is in any other religion. Lighting a candle in a church and asking God to help your sick daughter get well again is just as affective for a christian as lighting candles at home and asking the God and Goddess to help your sick daughter is for a Wiccan.

[Spazola]

We have not yet even clarified what the Wicca Cult is, but let's pretend we did. Now if someone wants to join Wiccaism, what initiation does she have to go through? Are any males allowed? What I mean is, is it a good organization to meet non-lesbian chicks at? :confused:

The "Wicca Cult" is a religion. :)

To become Wiccan, there is no initiation crap. Some say that your supposed to study it for a year and a day before you can claim to be Wiccan, but I personally think that it dosen't matter how long you study. Just as long as you know the basics and are continuing to study, then you can tell anyone who asks that you are Wiccan. :nice:

And yes, men are allowed. Wicca is all about the earth being balanced....one sex is never better or more important in Wicca. Before the God and Goddess, men and women are equals.

[ÆSiR]

You're all very strange.

That is all.

:|

[Spazola]

Awww, Eric, you're so sweet. *hugs* :)

[Von Apfelstrudel]

Wicca ?
tush! bloody supersition, all !
/me goes to sacrifice a bull to Athena Soteira Nikephoria
:|

[Šñøü†ê®]

To become Wiccan, there is no initiation crap.

But what the hell is this madness then?


The killing, skinning out, and eating of a wild stag OR farming 10 acres of land for two years;

You savages! :p

Can I catch a Bluefish, skin it, clean it and fry it instead? I don't know where I can find a wild stag, and 10 acres of land around here is going to cost several million bucks.


A dramatic change in lifestyle (This usually means a job change to a more positive occupation and a move from one locale to another. It does not necessarily mean across country, though long-distance moves are preferred.)

I like this one though. It gives more incentive to move to California.

[Spazola]

Well, Snouter, I don't know what I tell you. My links, and my information dosen't matter. You're going to believe whatever crap you drag up, whether its true or not, and keep believing that its what all Wiccans follow.

[CowPunk]

Typical for Snouter. No matter how many links people post proving that the Jews aren't Khazars, that won't stop Jim!

[Šñøü†ê®]

Typical for Snouter. No matter how many links people post proving that the Jews aren't Khazars, that won't stop Jim!

Wrong thread I think. :confused:


Well, Snouter, I don't know what I tell you. My links, and my information dosen't matter. You're going to believe whatever crap you drag up, whether its true or not, and keep believing that its what all Wiccans follow.

What are you talking about? You have provided very little in explaination and this is not helping anyone become a Wiccan! This is doing a disservice to Wiccans worldwide and goes against their rules from what I have read. I did a quick search for the initiation procedure and there is at least one. It appears individuals cannot arbitrarily claim they are Wiccan on a whim. What did you do to be initiated into Wiccandom? If you did nothing and toss around a few vague words like "balance" and "ecology," then it appears to be total :bs: .

Respond.

[CowPunk]

There are actually many denominations in Wicca, and people who practice yet don't belong to one, called "solitaries."

I imagine such things vary accordingly.

[jack_boot]

Wrong thread I think.

That won't stop Cow Punk. He can astrally project from one to the other.

When do you plan to nick that million from Randi? Try it when he's not looking, is my advice.

[CowPunk]

Overlooking your snide remark, I'll mention again that I'm not Wiccan. Also, I'm not very interested in proving any of this to people.

If anyone doesn't want to believe in it, that's fine with me.

[jack_boot]

Overlooking your snide remark, I'll mention again that I'm not Wiccan.

Snide? Hardly. I'm well aware that Wiccans don't travel by astral projection, but by broom.


Also, I'm not very interested in proving any of this to people.

I'll bet.

[CowPunk]

How many times do I have to tell you that I'm NOT a Wiccan? Furthermore, the thread doesn't concern any attempt by Wiccans to "prove" that their religious beliefs are true, as if Christians could do that either.

It's really just about what those beliefs ARE.

[jack_boot]

How many times do I have to tell you that I'm NOT a Wiccan?

Wiccan, Waccan, whatever.

[CowPunk]

Jack, have you become dense? I don't believe in paganism or magic at all. My niece Spaz DOES believe in Wicca, and wanted me as a non-believer to participate in the thread so we could debate it in public as we have privately.

Do you get it now?

[Janus]

Typical for Snouter. No matter how many links people post proving that the Jews aren't Khazars, that won't stop Jim!

The Khazars did embrace Jewry and converted to Judaism. Stupid, but there you go. Bring on the pork products! :nice:

http://www.imninalu.net/Khazars.htm

[CowPunk]

While that may or may not be true, as your source mentions, it's not the case that Ashkenazi Jews are "Khzars."


Genetic tests indicate that Ashkenazim Jews are also the direct descendants of the Israelites, and their DNA confirms their ancestry from the ancient Middle East. Genetics studies show that Ashkenazim Jews are more closely related to Yemenite Jews, Assyrian Jews, Sephardic Jews, Kurdish Jews, and Arabs than they are to European peoples, and that hardly any intermarriage or conversion has occurred to affect the Jewish groups over the centuries.*

[Janus]

While that may or may not be true, as your source mentions, it's not the case that Ashkenazi Jews are "Khzars."

BTW, what was Sammy Davis, Jr? :D Now, while some people (like Orthodox Jews) think it's an ethnicity (ie. the Judism ruling where only progeny of a Jewish woman are Jews), other believes it's a religion and anybody can join up, so the Khzars are Jews.

But that doesn't make them the people who were kicked out of Isreal by the Babylonians and Rome. The Khazars were worshipping a penis deity ( :D you should see some of the statues they had in the public square) and probably wanted something a bit more encompassing.

[SivVulk]

is it legal to practise witchcraft in the United States? I know it's legal in Canada..... One of those ancient laws that have stood the test of time.... Section 365 of the Criminal Code states that it's a summary offence to pretend your a witch but it's legal to be a witch (if in fact you are one)...

[Spazola]

What are you talking about? You have provided very little in explaination and this is not helping anyone become a Wiccan! This is doing a disservice to Wiccans worldwide and goes against their rules from what I have read. I did a quick search for the initiation procedure and there is at least one. It appears individuals cannot arbitrarily claim they are Wiccan on a whim. What did you do to be initiated into Wiccandom? If you did nothing and toss around a few vague words like "balance" and "ecology," then it appears to be total :bs: .

Respond.
I don't think that studying Wicca for three years counts as claiming I am Wiccan "on a whim".
Like I have said before, some Wiccans believe you must study Wicca for a year and a day before you can consider yourself Wiccan. Many, though, don't believe you have to be "initiated" before you can worship the God and Goddess.
Check out the book "Teen Witch" by Silver Raven-Wolf. It might give you a bit of an idea of an idea of where I'm coming from.

[jack_boot]

Cow Punk, that only means the jews aren't European. We know that - they are Asiatic.
Michael Hammer of Arizona postulates the "Khazar" origins of the Ashkenazim, but debate rages among the Chosen. They seem to be as fascinated with racial genetics as, oh, say, your average racial nationalist.

[Erhnam]

Cow Punk, that only means the jews aren't European. We know that - they are Asiatic.
Michael Hammer of Arizona postulates the "Khazar" origins of the Ashkenazim, but debate rages among the Chosen. They seem to be as fascinated with racial genetics as, oh, say, your average racial nationalist.


Their methods are sometimes humorous as well. For instance, only testing Ashkenzi Jews with certain last names, so they can insure a highly skewed genetic profile. In actuality, Ashkenazis are mutts. Even their maternal line is entirely European, not middle-eastern. Thus by their own religious laws, they cannot be born Jews.

[CowPunk]

Cow Punk, that only means the jews aren't European. We know that - they are Asiatic.
- No, they're virtually genetically identical to the Palestinians & other Arabs, and in fact, the biblical Israelites.


Michael Hammer of Arizona postulates the "Khazar" origins of the Ashkenazim, but debate rages among the Chosen. They seem to be as fascinated with racial genetics as, oh, say, your average racial nationalist.
- The Jews didn't commission the population genetics studies; they were undertaken by scientists that wanted to examine the oldest bloodlines around.

[CowPunk]

Their methods are sometimes humorous as well. For instance, only testing Ashkenzi Jews with certain last names, so they can insure a highly skewed genetic profile.
- False: they weren't claiming that ALL Jews had the genetic characteristics of the Cohain line when they did those studies of the Cohens. :rolleyes:

The general Ashkenazi population genetics studies referred to did NOT examine single blood lines.


In actuality, Ashkenazis are mutts.
- And your scientific evidence for this claim is...?


Even their maternal line is entirely European, not middle-eastern.
- Cites, please.


Thus by their own religious laws, they cannot be born Jews.
- Since only a small fraction accept those laws, and most believe that anyone with a Jewish parent or even grandparent, that's irrelevant.

[jack_boot]

I'd heard of some studies of the Cohenim, with results something like that. The matrilineal was indeterminate, but the patrilineal definitely Middle Eastern. I believe the rabbinical custom of determining jewishness matrilineally postdates the Diaspora, but perhaps I misremember.

[CowPunk]

http://wais.stanford.edu/Religion/religion_jewsandtheychromosome21602.html

[Erhnam]

"In DNA, New Clues to Jewish Roots." The New York Times(2002).

Mutts.

[Erhnam]

I believe the rabbinical custom of determining jewishness matrilineally postdates the Diaspora, but perhaps I misremember.

Good point. I'm not sure offhand either.

[Šñøü†ê®]

I don't think that studying Wicca for three years counts as claiming I am Wiccan "on a whim".

The quanitity of time is not as relevent is the quality of time. For example, based on your posts, you seemed unfamiliar with the Bible although I think you said you spent time studying it. So, if you are that familiar with Wiccanism, explain it to me in case others might be interested in becoming one. I am encouraging you to exploit this opportunity to fully and completely express yourself.


Many, though, don't believe you have to be "initiated" before you can worship the God and Goddess.

I have read on a website that Wiccans worship many more gods than those two. What up with that?


Check out the book "Teen Witch" by Silver Raven-Wolf. It might give you a bit of an idea of an idea of where I'm coming from.

I will not read some teenage novel by someone who has named himself after a professional wrestler. This is the real Raven, forevermore...

http://www.bsww.de/wrestler/bios/raven19.jpg

[jack_boot]

In CP's link, there's some guy talking about "Roman Jews", whatever the hell that's supposed to mean. Doesn't have anything to do with Hammer. Here's what Hammer has to say:


"Our work definitely refutes a lot of that discussion of alternate origins for Jewish populations," Hammer says. "It shows that we really are a single ethnic group coming from the Middle East. Even if you look like another European with blue eyes and light skin, your genes are telling that you're from the Middle East."

One of the study's goals was to determine just how much assimilation had occurred since the Diaspora, which took place during the sixth century C.E.

"People say Jews look like Europeans because clearly there's been hanky-panky through the generations," Hammer says. "But not that much, according to our study."

http://www.jewishaz.com/jewishnews/000519/study.shtml

It's important to note that Hammer's conclusions are debated, especially by a team from, I think, Columbia, and he is in extended consultation and review with his peers. But this has only to do with "semitic Middle Eastern" or "non-Semitic Middle Eastern" postulation. The jews, unquestionably, are of Asiatic stock. Not European.

[jack_boot]

So, Cow Punk, you recant your heresy?

[Spazola]

The quanitity of time is not as relevent is the quality of time. For example, based on your posts, you seemed unfamiliar with the Bible although I think you said you spent time studying it. So, if you are that familiar with Wiccanism, explain it to me in case others might be interested in becoming one. I am encouraging you to exploit this opportunity to fully and completely express yourself.
My point of this thread was not to convert people to Wicca, but okay.
I did a little more research, and I think I figured out that intiation stuff your talking about. I've mostly studied Solitary Wicca, so thats why I was confused. :)

Wicca is a religion that was founded by Gerald Gardner around 1953. Since then, lots of different traditions have been followed.
Wicca and Witchcraft are not the same thing, though its easy to see how people would become confused. But, as it is, you can be Wiccan and practice witchcraft, or practice Witchcraft and not be Wiccan.
When talking about Wicca, you could be referring to either the initiatory tradition, where initiates are assigned a degree and generally work in covens, or Solitary Wicca, where practitioners self-dedicate themselves to the tradition and generally practice on their own. Both Initiates and Solitary Wiccans worship the Goddess, with most also choosing to worship the God, and both celebrate the Sabbats and Esbats.
Wiccans worship two deities, the Goddess and the God sometimes known as the Horned God, and the Goddess known as the Triple Goddess Dianic Wiccans mainly worship the Goddess; either they don't worship the God at all, or he plays a small roll.
This is some main information, but if you have any specific questions, always feel free to ask. :)

[CowPunk]

"In DNA, New Clues to Jewish Roots." The New York Times(2002).

Mutts.
- Not what your source says: the womens' genetic origins are indeterminate, and any theory is a matter of speculation, which is quite a different statement than "mutts." The Y chromosones are of Mideastern origin, while the mitochondrial DNA's origins are unknown.

www.humanitas-international.org/perezites/news/jewish-dna-nytimes.htm

By the way, the same article says that matrilinear descent began after the Islamic invasions in the 5th century.

[CowPunk]

So, Cow Punk, you recant your heresy?
I'm not sure what you're referring to.