http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1126837397765

-basicly for beeing israeli army man...

Read on some article that the warning came from Bleir office...

So, do you think it is possible for someone from Israel to do wrong? That perhaps, there is a person out there, from Israel, who might deserve to be arrested?

So, do you think it is possible for someone from Israel to do wrong? That perhaps, there is a person out there, from Israel, who might deserve to be arrested?

The hunt is after every israeli soldier.
The palestinains, that started this, saying exactly that. In this very words.
Of course, as usual, they find plenty of european (and not only european)cooperation for their every anti-israeli action.

Every single one of them is evil. Listen to some of them, and every single one of you is evil.

It takes an immense amount of patience to remain attentive to goings-on in the Middle East. Every day I lose more and more faith that anyone remains over there who is willing to co-exist peacefully, and every day I understand more and more the pervasive sentiment here that we ought to just build a giant dome over you all and let you duke it out for another 2000 years before we pay attention to that camel sh*t of a region again.

Every single one of them is evil. Listen to some of them, and every single one of you is evil.

It takes an immense amount of patience to remain attentive to goings-on in the Middle East. Every day I lose more and more faith that anyone remains over there who is willing to co-exist peacefully, and every day I understand more and more the pervasive sentiment here that we ought to just build a giant dome over you all and let you duke it out for another 2000 years before we pay attention to that camel sh*t of a region again.

That's exactly what the anti-Israel side wants you to think. Its similar to what I said in the "republican war on science" thread- they want you to think that both sides are equally legitimate/illegitimate; that the whole thing is just some big mess (it is admittedly that) and that both sides are equally to blame.

There is a right and wrong here. Israel is a democratic society which has made serious efforts at peace in that region. If you're gay you should be acutely aware of the differences between Israeli and Arab society. Which would you rather live in?

Furthermore, should the Arabs get their wish and Israel be eradicated and a pan-Islamic theocratic empire be formed out of the larger middle-east, the entire world will long for the days when Israel existed. Mark my words.

That's exactly what the anti-Israel side wants you to think. Its similar to what I said in the "republican war on science" thread- they want you to think that both sides are equally legitimate/illegitimate; that the whole thing is just some big mess (it is admittedly that) and that both sides are equally to blame.

There is a right and wrong here. Israel is a democratic society which has made serious efforts at peace in that region. If you're gay you should be acutely aware of the differences between Israeli and Arab society. Which would you rather live in?

Furthermore, should the Arabs get their wish and Israel be eradicated and a pan-Islamic theocratic empire be formed out of the larger middle-east, the entire world will long for the days when Israel existed. Mark my words.

I make no claim that the two sides are equals. I should have prefaced anything I wrote with the disclaimer that I've explicitly avoided news from this region all my life, and continue to do so, so I'm actually uniquely ignorant of who did what to whom when, and I wouldn't make a claim to quantify it either way.

As you said, there is right and wrong, and I recognize that there's some of each on each side, in numbers I honestly don't care to know. The society Israel has created is remarkably better than the quite-barbaric Islamic world, but that doesn't really resonate legitimacy to land claims, which...seems to be the biggest problem over there. Barbarians need land, too. And yeah, I'd rather have my free speech repressed as a gay man (Israel) than be executed (Islamist Arab world).

I was having this conversation with a co-worker the other day, about two other groups of people who haven't managed to co-exist after several hundred years occupying the same land, and her mantra was "I don't care," which I understand but honestly look down upon somewhat in the negligence it conveys re: justice and the suffering of your fellow man.

I don't "not care" about these principles or their application to the problems in the Middle East. But just...seriously...someone shut every last one of these all-or-nothing-types the f*ck up. Take 'em off the f*ckin' news and let's hear from someone with a little more zest for intricacy for once. Jeebus f'in' Christ.

I just think that's a short-sighted view, although I understand how you could feel that way nowadays.

There was no such people or tribe as "Palestinians" sixty years ago. There were a group of Arabs living in the land historically known as "palestine", and when Jews were allowed to settle there and form a much more prosperous nation, the Arabs who could afford to do so fled en masse from the region, against the protest of Jews who wished them to remain and live in co-existence.

The Arabs who couldn't afford to leave got left behind and became known as "the Palestinians", but they are really just a group of peole considered expendable by other Arab nations (just as the women and children sent into Israel as human bombs are considered expendable by their own people), left to fight a proxy war against Jews on behalf of Arab leaders who wish to establish a theocratic empire of Muslim dictaorship/monarchy in the middle-east.

I just think that's a short-sighted view, although I understand how you could feel that way nowadays.

There was no such people or tribe as "Palestinians" sixty years ago. There were a group of Arabs living in the land historically known as "palestine", and when Jews were allowed to settle there and form a much more propserous nation, the Arabs who could afford to fled en masse from the region, against the protest of Jews who wished them to remain and live in co-existence.

The Arabs who couldn't afford to leave got left behind and became known as "the Palestinians", but they are really just a group of peole considered expendable by other Arab nations (just as the women and children sent into Israel as human bombs are considered expendable by their own people), left to fight a proxy war against Jews on behalf of Arab leaders who wish to establish a theocratic empire of Muslim dictaorship/monarchy in the middle-east.

All that's clear to me, despite my self-imposed ignorance.

My reply in the other thread (In The News) is pertinent here, but I'd also like to submit the understandable (justified or not is another question) apprehension of minority group A to agreeing to live among majority group B in a newly-formed state founded on majority rule, a phenomenon with countless examples in our history, our present, and certainly our future.

Also, I'd like to reiterate that the frustration I'm voicing is mostly aimed at the aforementioned all-or-nothing types, which is NOT to say that moral authority doesn't demonstrably rest with a side here. I'm simply tired as all hell of hearing from nobody but the loudmouths who can't admit that even if the other side is sh*tty as all hell, there's nothing to make the presence of sh*tty individuals on "our" side a logical impossibility.

All that's clear to me, despite my self-imposed ignorance.

My reply in the other thread (In The News) is pertinent here, but I'd also like to submit the understandable (justified or not is another question) apprehension of minority group A to agreeing to live among majority group B in a newly-formed state founded on majority rule, a phenomenon with countless examples in our history, our present, and certainly our future.

Also, I'd like to reiterate that the frustration I'm voicing is mostly aimed at the aforementioned all-or-nothing types, which is NOT to say that moral authority doesn't demonstrably rest with a side here. I'm simply tired as all hell of hearing from nobody but the loudmouths who can't admit that even if the other side is sh*tty as all hell, there's nothing to make the presence of sh*tty individuals on "our" side a logical impossibility.

That's a very good point, but understand that being plopped into the middle of a hostile society is nothing new to the Jews, they have a habit of making it work against all odds. And remember that for many years Jews and Muslims did peacefully co-exist: the medieval Arab empire was one of the friendliest and most accomodating to Jews up to that point. While Christian Europe wallowed in a grim impoverished Dark Age until the renaissance, Jews and Muslims worked together in the middle-east and made many important contributions to civilization in the form of advances in the fields of science, medicine, civic government, art, etc.

The problem is that Christian Europe bounced back, the Ottomans demolished the Muslim Arab empire (finishing what was started by the Mongols) and now Arab society is not quite as comparatively enlightened as they were then.

But history threw another curveball in the mix: the discovery of oil as the world's most important resource, found in abundance smack dab in the middle of Arab land, and now the Arab countries have no desire or need to "play nice" with the rest of the world anymore. They want everyone out of their turf, and want to re-establish the glory days of their 15th century empire, by any means neccesary. Jews and Americans don't fit into that plane very well, and so are the primary targets of Arab/Muslim hostility now.

I'm simply tired as all hell of hearing from nobody but the loudmouths who can't admit that even if the other side is sh*tty as all hell, there's nothing to make the presence of sh*tty individuals on "our" side a logical impossibility.

If you mean the person that allmoast got arrested - I hope you not naive enough to think that it happen because of his extrem crimes - crimes terrible enought to make him the only foreign person ever arrested in England on such bases.
No, it is just another part of very succesfull anti-israeli campain, and the fact that probably not every israeli is a saint, has nothing to do with this business.

I want to add a little final, personal note to my "brief history of the world":

I am in no way prejudiced or racist against Arabs or even necessarily Arab societies and countries. Hell, I'm half-sicilian and we get most of our cultural influence directly from Arab culture.

Arab societies have remained heavily tribe- and family-centered, and I don't even think that is necessarily bad in and of itself. That's exactly why America's adventures in imperialism in iraq is such a mess: Arab society doesn't necessarily embrace the notion of a government-imposed "social contract" forming some cold, rigid nation-state. And I'm inclined to agree with that assesment to a large degree. I despise the illusory notion of a "social contract" into which we're all born (to serve the state).

Arabs and palestinians are perfectly capable of running their own civil societies like any people, under the right conditions, even without a Western-style "democracy". That's exactly why I don't make excuses for Palestinian terror: They're better than that. They're capable of of being just as decent and civil as any group of people if they choose.

But they feel they have leverage, in the form of the support of other Arab countries (who in turn derive their leverage to support the destruction of Israel from their control of the world's oil supply), and so they choose to continue waging a despicable war of civilian terror. It's a bad decision, and one that deserves no sympathy or excuses from anyone who wishes an eventual end to the conflict. As I've said before, the palestinians aren't children or animals: they're grown, politically-aware men who know very well what they're doing.

Israel's perceived position of moral superiority is partially the result their good fortune to have a uniformed military with conventional weapons which they can use to fight, but if you examine the conflict in detailed context- and unfortunately that is what one is eventually forced to do in order to make heads-or-tails of the situation to an outside observer- you will clearly see that Israel has acted far more humanely, and consistently done so.

Really, America and Europe have used both sides to maintain a position of control, and as the smallest group in terms of raw numbers, the Jews lose out in this global tug-of-war between governments. They lose despite being incredibly resilient and flexible in the face of overwhelming persecution from all sides.

And that's just a damn shame.

Actually it is similar to the feeling I get sometimes arguing with some pro-palestinian opponent- that between us I'm the person with more respect to palestinians and arab in general, and that's why I see no reason to demand less from them then from anybody else.

The hunt is after every israeli soldier.
The palestinains, that started this, saying exactly that. In this very words.
Of course, as usual, they find plenty of european (and not only european)cooperation for their every anti-israeli action.
:eek7:
So what's your point coral? Europeans hate jews? No need to prove it, everybdy knows this. This arrest is actually just the first one. In fact this arrest in part of a plan, a new holocaust, but this time we, europeans, decided we will take jews one by one, so no one will notice.

Actually it is similar to the feeling I get sometimes arguing with some pro-palestinian opponent- that between us I'm the person with more respect to palestinians and arab in general, and that's why I see no reason to demand less from them then from anybody else.

I get the same feeling. Peace wouldn't just benefit Israel- in fact it would benefit Palestinians far more. And the Palestinian 'leadership' and their terrorists are the ones impeding peace, not Israel. They do it by choice, not by nature.

:eek7:
So what's your point coral? Europeans hate jews? No need to prove it, everybdy knows this. This arrest is actually just the first one. In fact this arrest in part of a plan, a new holocaust, but this time we, europeans, decided we will take jews one by one, so no one will notice.

What I think about it I wrote allready, on the post you decided to mock about, so if you want to know my point - just reread it.

What I think about it I wrote allready, on the post you decided to mock about, so if you want to know my point - just reread it.
I ddn't mock your post. I just took your logic one step forward.

"I really wanted to go to England, but now am having second thoughts," Sharon said. "I know something about British jails, have heard a lot about them, and don't want anything to do with them."

No kiddin'... just ask Gerry Conlin...

doesnt it bother you coral that this man can actually be convicted by english law, for what he did? and palestinians are in no way free from prosicution in england for what they do. if a jewsish organisation acts when a palestinian that has done crimes enters england, he will be arrested as well.

doesnt it bother you coral that this man can actually be convicted by english law, for what he did? and palestinians are in no way free from prosicution in england for what they do. if a jewsish organisation acts when a palestinian that has done crimes enters england, he will be arrested as well.


You don't suspect me in believing that it's about justice, even a little bitt?

And get real -you know that any such actions against palestinians and against their real war crimes will not happen. Never.

what nonsense. your view of europe is becoming rediculous, coral.anybody can file charges here, not just palestinian radical groups. you live in a democracy yourself, you know how it works.

what nonsense. your view of europe is becoming rediculous, coral.anybody can file charges here, not just palestinian radical groups. you live in a democracy yourself, you know how it works.

Everybody can file charges, sure.
And here is when the equality ends...
I think you know that there is no chance for a arest warrent to be issued against anybody else but israelis.

ofcourse there is. that assumption is based on nothing.

-basicly for beeing israeli army man...
.

hmmm...no.
basically for having destroyed 59 civilian houses ...

ofcourse there is. that assumption is based on nothing.


Maybe it's based on the FACT, that such arrest warrant was never issued against anybody' but israeli...
And not like there wasn't reasons...

hmmm...no.
basically for having destroyed 59 civilian houses ...

And this, specially considering the whole situation, is the most terrible world war crime commited recently.
Somehow it escaped me that we are living in a world close to perfect...

Anyway the british government had appoligised to Israel about it and promised to take care it will not happen again. Untill the next time.
Not that I see how british can legally prevent this from happening...

Maybe it's based on the FACT, that such arrest warrant was never issued against anybody' but israeli...
And not like there wasn't reasons... not true, they arrested pinochet when he was in britain. and numerous islamic radicals.
Not that I see how british can legally prevent this from happening... the british gouv. for sure cant, becasue their legal system is an independent one.
and again, coral, if jewish groups have a case against a palestinian that is in the UK, they can have him arrested as well. its not the systems fault that that never happened.

not true, they arrested pinochet when he was in britain. and numerous islamic radicals.
.

No, they didn't.
They was thnking about Pinochet (all the year and half he was in Britain) but never did it, and no muslim radicals was arrested based on this law.

and again, coral, if jewish groups have a case against a palestinian that is in the UK, they can have him arrested as well.

Don't be naive

No, they didn't.
They was thnking about Pinochet (all the year and half he was in Britain) but never did it, and no muslim radicals was arrested based on this law.pinochet was uner house arrest for months and then finally released becuase he succesfully faked alzheimer and health problems. which ment legally that they couldnt indice him. and Im not sure about muslim extremists and this law.

Don't be naiveexplane.

And this, specially considering the whole situation, is the most terrible world war crime commited recently.

of course not, but a crime is a crime ...

Im not sure about muslim extremists and this law.

Then check...

of course not, but a crime is a crime ...

So tel me he wasn't single out because he is an israeli...

I believe the courts (which are independent from the Govt.) are using the same laws used to arrest suspected Nazi's from WWII.

Here is a more reliable report:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4237620.stm

Note the comments:

But former legal adviser to the Israeli Foreign Ministry Robbie Sable said it was unlikely Maj Gen Almog would have been arrested.

"Courts in organised countries do not act on malicious litigation and this was definitely malicious litigation," he added.

The Israeli Foreign Ministry said it was taking the incident seriously and seeking clarification from British authorities.

Officials at the British Embassy in Tel Aviv refused to comment.

Interesting what BBC has to say about british apology.

So tel me he wasn't single out because he is an israeli... israel is singling it out becasue he was an israeli. its no suprise that laws like this are not arpecieted by the ones that can be arrested under these laws.

israel is singling it out becasue he was an israeli. its no suprise that laws like this are not arpecieted by the ones that can be arrested under these laws.

A lot of people CAN be arrested, only israelis WOULD be arrested.
Get it allready.

its not true, coral. youre seeing british as a bunch orf antisemites. its rediculous.

its not true, coral. youre seeing british as a bunch orf antisemites. its rediculous.

The warning about the arrest warrent came from british government, so the picture is compicated.
But anti-israeli attitude is very IN in whole Europe.

The warning about the arrest warrent came from british government, so the picture is compicated.
But anti-israeli attitude is very IN in whole Europe.
Coral that's nonsense. But it doesn't matter what Oki or anyone else says, does it? You just won't accept any disagreement! :nonono:

Coral that's nonsense. But it doesn't matter what Oki or anyone else says, does it? You just won't accept any disagreement! :nonono:

I don't see what exactly you are calling "nonsense", but as somebody that believes every anti-israeli lie in the book from every stupid source, makes her best to distribute it and puts on ignore list every one who disagree - you are very good example of western anti-israelism.

The warning about the arrest warrent came from british government, so the picture is compicated.
But anti-israeli attitude is very IN in whole Europe.even if that was true,that is something different as anti jew.

So tel me he wasn't single out because he is an israeli...

I do not deny it.
More accurately, I will tell you he was singled out becomes he comes from a democracy , and as such is tacitely supposed to uphold higher standards that your average Chilian junt member ... And that because, somehow, he felt he could go away with it hard enough to be stupid enough to set foot in a foreign country where he could be counted accountable for what he did ...

Coral you'd better get right on this. Obviously anti Israeli (ergo anti semitism) sentiment is spreading far and wide.

http://www.indiadaily.com/breaking_news/44663.asp

Hindu priests fume over Israeli couple's kiss
Sep. 12, 2005

An Israeli couple has drawn the ire of priests in Pushkar by airing their love in public after they tied the knot at a ceremony in the town known for its famous cattle fair that draws a large number of tourists
The Shree Teerth Guru Pushkar Purohit Sangh Trust has written a letter to Rajasthan Chief Minister Vasundhara Raje about the incident and requested her to ban Israeli tourists from visiting the town. In the letter, the Trust has also mentioned about a group of Israeli tourists, who had organised a semi-nude dance party here last year in the presence of the Ajmer district collector and other tourism department officials.

I do not deny it.
More accurately, I will tell you he was singled out becomes he comes from a democracy , and as such is tacitely supposed to uphold higher standards that your average Chilian junt member ... are you serious? for one, this israeli officer got of with an official apology, while pinochet was held for months and had to go through trials to get away. btw in his case, it was a group of spanish victoms that asked for the arrest. I do not believe this man was singled out at all, for some racist reason.

Coral you'd better get right on this. Obviously anti Israeli (ergo anti semitism) sentiment is spreading far and wide.

http://www.indiadaily.com/breaking_news/44663.asp

Hindu priests fume over Israeli couple's kiss
Sep. 12, 2005

An Israeli couple has drawn the ire of priests in Pushkar by airing their love in public after they tied the knot at a ceremony in the town known for its famous cattle fair that draws a large number of tourists
The Shree Teerth Guru Pushkar Purohit Sangh Trust has written a letter to Rajasthan Chief Minister Vasundhara Raje about the incident and requested her to ban Israeli tourists from visiting the town. In the letter, the Trust has also mentioned about a group of Israeli tourists, who had organised a semi-nude dance party here last year in the presence of the Ajmer district collector and other tourism department officials.

Anti Israeli and anti semitism sentiment is obviously spreading far and wide.

And this couple case has nothing to do with it.
Happy?

are you serious? for one, this israeli officer got of with an official apology, while pinochet was held for months and had to go through trials to get away. btw in his case, it was a group of spanish victoms that asked for the arrest. I do not believe this man was singled out at all, for some racist reason.

Tha's because with Pinochet they had a REAL case.
The kind of case, I suppose such court was MEANT to answer (obviously it didn't worked).
But now this court is nothing but a political tool easy to use against hated Israel.

even if that was true,that is something different as anti jew.

Different, but in my opinion - connected.

so easy to connect that, that way you can call everything you dont like racist. and justuify that with some victom mentality.
kills off all debate.

so easy to connect that, that way you can call everything you dont like racist. and justuify that with some victom mentality.
kills off all debate.

This is not a reason to deny a connection, if there is a connection.

Anti Israeli and anti semitism sentiment is obviously spreading far and wide.

And this couple case has nothing to do with it.
Happy?

Thanks for not disappointing me. I knew you'd bite. No sense of humor and paranoid to boot. A great combination for most zealots.

Thanks for not disappointing me. I knew you'd bite. No sense of humor and paranoid to boot. A great combination for most zealots.

O, it was humour..
You never gave me any reason to believe that you are capable of it...

O, it was humour..
You never gave me any reason to believe that you are capable of it...

Went right over your head didn't it Coral! In the field of mental health there is something called understanding abstract concepts: i.e understanding the hidden message, and being concrete: i.e.only being able to take something at face value. Guess which category you fit in! Guess which one indicates mental health and which one doesn't! Am I going to fast for you?

Went right over your head didn't it Coral! In the field of mental health there is something called understanding abstract concepts: i.e understanding the hidden message, and being concrete: i.e.only being able to take something at face value. Guess which category you fit in! Guess which one indicates mental health and which one doesn't! Am I going to fast for you?

You are so smart! I impresed. You know all kinds of words.
Now the only thing is left is to put some of this smartness into your posts.